Does your living room exist when you’re in your bedroom?

[BipolarGrowth]

When you’re not directly conscious of something, does it really exist? 
 

And how can there ever be reliable verification that something outside of your direct and present consciousness exists? 
 

These questions seem quite silly to most people, especially those who haven’t been on a philosophical and spiritual quest for some time, but most people who have knee-jerk reactions to these questions are basing their conclusions off of stories or explanations for consciousness that they haven’t thought through at all for themselves and almost certainly haven’t verified for themselves. 
 

I’m interested to see what people think and the arguments that are presented in favor or against the existence of things outside of present consciousness. 

[No Self]

Does the room you're in right now really exist?

[Someone here]

Yes and no ofcourse. 

[BipolarGrowth]

@No Self yeah my intent was not to get into some nondual word game where we lose all value of discussion by changing definitions. I’ve likely had the same insight you’re getting at, but that’s not what is being discussed here. 

[BipolarGrowth]

@Someone here elaborate please. 

[At awe]

How would we verify if it’s there or not? A camera?

[Tim R]

I don't see how anything could exist "outside" consciousness. Because whatever "proof" one would come up with to verify the existence of your living room, one has to be conscious of it.

And the only real "proof" for the existence of your living room is to be (in) it by being conscious of it. 

[Someone here]

It doesn't exist for you if you define existence as what you are directly conscious of right now.  (I don't see why would you define it that way. You definitely don't act from this perspective.)

Yet it exists for itself and for other conscious beings.

So open up that possibility. It cannot be said for certain that's for sure. The best thing is to remain agnostic about such questions and adopt a pragmatic answer. Otherwise you will lose it in solipsism which is another word for madness. 

[Tim R]

8 minutes ago, At awe said:

How would we verify if it’s there or not? A camera?

No, because then you're not aware of the living room itself, but only of the camera. And the camera isn't the living room. 

This I think ties up nicely with what @Someone here says: yes and no.

 

@BipolarGrowth What this means is the following: you assume that your bedroom is something different from your living room. Which isn't the case

No matter where you are, you are always the same place where you are 

In other words, the distinction between being and non-being (bedroom and living room) doesn't actually exist - therefore your living room exists, because it's the same place as your bedroom. Because no matter where you are, your always the same place. 

Show me the difference between your bedroom and living room.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Tim R

[nistake]

[At awe]

@Tim R I was joking ?

[Vibroverse]

It exists. And nothing exists. We don't exist. We're nothing. I am nowhere. So all must be nowhere if I am nowhere. Space is in our consciousness. And our consciousness is dimensionless. Therefore space is dimensionless. The three dimensions and all other dimensions you can imagine are all and in the dimensionless. 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Vibroverse

[Javfly33]

There is no need to verify anything.

Ask yourself how would you verify it. Obviously being conscious of the room.

So consciousness is necessary for 'reality' to exist.

Your bedroom is your own mind.

 

[mmKay]

Real sages have no living room. They live in a loft and ita called the beingroom

[LastThursday]

1 hour ago, BipolarGrowth said:

And how can there ever be reliable verification that something outside of your direct and present consciousness exists? 

I'd say there's two types of exist.

One is the direct type: you're looking at your hand right now. The other is a kind of mental story or sensation: my mother is living in London. One is direct, one is an inference or a mental construction.

The problem with the direct type of existence, is that it's not static. Stuff is constantly coming in and out of direct awareness. So you look in one direction and see the chair, you look in another direction and see the table. So the chair goes from one type of existence to the other. There are even things that come into your awareness that you didn't know previously existed: typically we call it news.

The question you're asking is do you believe in the inference type of existence?

The problem with inference, is that it's always in the realm of possibility and probabilty. It's never 100% certain. When you're waiting at a bus stop, you can't know with 100% certainty if the bus will turn up. You are inferring from evidence that the bus exists and is coming your way.

Quantum scientists grapple with the exact same problem.

My opinion is that even direct experience is not certain. When you look at your hand, what is it you're experiencing? Is it a hand? Or five fingers and a palm? Semantics, maybe, but that's precisely my point. To say that you have a hand is a mental construction: i.e. inference.

[At awe]

Leo has a video “What is Actuality?”

Talks about this.