Did getting good with girls fix any of your self esteem issues?

[SamC]

@Leo Gura

I have a belief that when I sort my problems with getting girls everything will be fine but I think it is bullshit.

What do you guys say? Did it improve your self esteem or not? Did it make you more secure and confident or not?

[meow_meow]

25 minutes ago, SamC said:

What do you guys say? Did it improve your self esteem or not? Did it make you more secure and confident or not?

No, it's the other way around for me, first I fixed or atleast upped my self esteem by improoving myself in all aspects of life and only then I got some cheek clapping.

[Gesundheit]

They overlap. You gotta start somewhere, and the rest will do itself as long as you're committed.

[SamC]

18 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

What do you mean by getting good with girls?

Having the skills to get laid/ get a gf

[SamC]

23 minutes ago, meow_meow said:

No, it's the other way around for me, first I fixed or atleast upped my self esteem by improoving myself in all aspects of life and only then I got some cheek clapping.

So no self esteem boost when them cheeks were clapping?

[SamC]

21 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

They overlap. You gotta start somewhere, and the rest will do itself as long as you're committed.

@Gesundheit

Yeah this is what I've been thinking aswell. Can you expand on how it was for you?

 

[Gesundheit]

@SamC Well, essentially, I think all dating problems stem from a poor self-image. An autonomous guy who is confident of himself would have zero problems with girls. In my journey, there was a fundamental realization that took place somewhere in an intermediate phase, which is that you can't force attraction. With that insight, there was relief. I finally understood that there's actually nothing personal when I get rejected, and that it's not possible to have every girl I like. And so, I stopped having the fear of rejection anymore, or at least to a much lesser degree. Part of my ego dissolved. And I found myself freer and more authentic with everyone, not only girls. When I realized that, I started interacting more with girls, and I discovered that they're just human beings, exactly like us. There's no need to put them on a pedestal. In fact, putting girls on a pedestal automatically puts me down on the self-esteem scale. With more practice, I started seeing that girls wanted my approval and attention as much as I did, if not even more. And so the game began to look more fair and balanced, and that increased my confidence. I realized that it's not a game where I should give everything to the girl so that she will appreciate me. No. That would make me look needy. Finally, I started learning to be myself fully and put myself first, and that's something I still have to work on. But I can see that ideally, that's the ultimate goal, is to be yourself fully and let your authentic self speak for you instead of your mind, insecurities, and agendas. If people like me for who I am, great. If not, I will not change for them or fake a persona.

"Be yourself. The world will adjust." That's my final insight into dating and relationships and life in general.

[SamC]

12 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

@SamC Well, essentially, I think all dating problems stem from a poor self-image. An autonomous guy who is confident of himself would have zero problems with girls. In my journey, there was a fundamental realization that took place somewhere in an intermediate phase, which is that you can't force attraction. With that insight, there was relief. I finally understood that there's actually nothing personal when I get rejected, and that it's not possible to have every girl I like. And so, I stopped having the fear of rejection anymore, or at least to a much lesser degree. Part of my ego dissolved. And I found myself freer and more authentic with everyone, not only girls. When I realized that, I started interacting more with girls, and I discovered that they're just human beings, exactly like us. There's no need to put them on a pedestal. In fact, putting girls on a pedestal automatically puts me down on the self-esteem scale. With more practice, I started seeing that girls wanted my approval and attention as much as I did, if not even more. And so the game began to look more fair and balanced, and that increased my confidence. I realized that it's not a game where I should give everything to the girl so that she will appreciate me. No. That would make me look needy. Finally, I started learning to be myself fully and put myself first, and that's something I still have to work on. But I can see that ideally, that's the ultimate goal, is to be yourself fully and let your authentic self speak for you instead of your mind, insecurities, and agendas. If people like me for who I am, great. If not, I will not change for them or fake a persona.

"Be yourself. The world will adjust." That's my final insight into dating and relationships and life in general.

Love it man. Yeah I agree 100%. When you get high/ healthy self esteem there won't be much struggle in daiting.

What do you think happens if one have some self esteem issues but  still enough self esteem so that he still can attract some girls? In other words, will experience with girls aid in this process of becoming more comfortable with being who one is? Will getting laid help me to become more authentic?

@Gesundheit

 

[Gesundheit]

2 minutes ago, SamC said:

What do you think happens if one have some self esteem issues but  still enough self esteem so that he still can attract some girls? In other words, will experience with girls aid in this process of becoming more comfortable with being who one is? Will getting laid help me to become more authentic?

@Gesundheit

I think it's tricky, because the underlying issues of self-image may not be addressed without them being exposed and worked through. Success can mimic actual progress, and it can mask fear and fake personas underneath it, all of which will be easily thrown off at the first real challenge, i.e. rejection, insult, criticism, etc...

Fear needs to be overcome in order for an autonomous personality to mature. If there's still fear, there's still more work to do.

[Bando]

Do both, work on your limiting beliefs and get good with girls, don't only do one you won't make much progress

[flowboy]

I set out to get good with girls, so I could be the man I thought I needed to be, and thus have self esteem. But I found self esteem way before I found the other thing. Actually, I still don't have any of the skills that I pictured myself having. I wanted to be able to talk to and really connect to girls when I feel attracted, and be so confident and practiced in that situation, that it has a good chance of it going well.

What ended up happening was I chose to not invest serious time in picking up girls, and handle other life priorities first. So I only really did it a couple times a year. I'm still not even over approach anxiety, and not yet in the habit of going for it. I still find myself debating it in my mind, and taking a long time hesitating.

But that all doesn't really matter, because through other practices and experiences I came to think of myself as a valuable person and an attractive man. And that meant I could even make the most clumsy approaches and situations work. It makes the initial anxiety into an enjoyable excitement.

My two cents: don't second-guess yourself. If your intuition tells you that this is what you need to work on first, do it! Pursuing anything and getting better at it will work wonders on your self-esteem, anyhow. Whether it's social skills or anything else.

[SamC]

31 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

I think it's tricky, because the underlying issues of self-image may not be addressed without them being exposed and worked through. Success can mimic actual progress, and it can mask fear and fake personas underneath it, all of which will be easily thrown off at the first real challenge, i.e. rejection, insult, criticism, etc...

Fear needs to be overcome in order for an autonomous personality to mature. If there's still fear, there's still more work to do.

@Gesundheit Might be the case. Doesn't addressing your low self esteem subcomunicate to yourself that you have low self esteem and therefor can't have an authentic relationship though?

I mean what is low self esteem but a bullshit story that exists in your mind?

Edited January 16, 2021 by SamC

[SamC]

21 minutes ago, Bando said:

Do both, work on your limiting beliefs and get good with girls, don't only do one you won't make much progress

I will.

 

18 minutes ago, flowboy said:

 

My two cents: don't second-guess yourself. If your intuition tells you that this is what you need to work on first, do it! Pursuing anything and getting better at it will work wonders on your self-esteem, anyhow. Whether it's social skills or anything else.

Yessir. Thank you!

[Lyubov]

honestly, no it didn't

even after having sex with several really hot women

the next thoughts for me were, now I gotta double this number or make the process easier or have more crazy sex 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Lyubov

[Gesundheit]

37 minutes ago, SamC said:

@Gesundheit Might be the case. Doesn't addressing your low self esteem subcomunicate to yourself that you have low self esteem and therefor can't have an authentic relationship though?

I mean what is low self esteem but a bullshit story that exists in your mind?

I don't think you appreciate what low self-esteem really means and what it can do to you. It's not that simple. It's a whole can of worms of conditioned negative thoughts that you actually believe in and can't let go of even if you want and try to, because you're convinced that they're true. And even though it helps, but you can't just fix all that with a simple "it's just a bullshit story in your mind" idea. Your mind and body won't buy it, and they will react strongly at any attempts to touching those beliefs. And that's assuming you've had a direct insight into low self-esteem. But if not, and someone else told you that, you will probably just dismiss them and think they're stupid to suggest that, and to even think that you're worthy of anything.

A lot of people struggle with these issues for decades. Having a low self-esteem is like having your worst enemy as your best friend. It feeds on you, and makes you an easy prey for psychopaths/sociopaths, which will probably double-down on your lack of self-esteem.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Gesundheit

[SamC]

45 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

I don't think you appreciate what low self-esteem really means and what it can do to you. It's not that simple. It's a whole can of worms of conditioned negative thoughts that you actually believe in and can't let go of even if you want and try to, because you're convinced that they're true. And even though it helps, but you can't just fix all that with a simple "it's just a bullshit story in your mind" idea. Your mind and body won't buy it, and they will react strongly at any attempts to touching those beliefs. And that's assuming you've had a direct insight into low self-esteem. But if not, and someone else told you that, you will probably just dismiss them and think they're stupid to suggest that, and to even think that you're worthy of anything.

A lot of people struggle with these issues for decades. Having a low self-esteem is like having your worst enemy as your best friend. It feeds on you, and makes you an easy prey for psychopaths/sociopaths, which will probably double-down on your lack of self-esteem.

I don't think you appreciate or understood what I said. @Gesundheit

Healing can go overboard if you assume that you're broken and take to much action to try to " fix" yourself when you feel like you're not worthy.

That approach is in itself a sneaky way to operate from low self esteem, aka fear. In other words the best "exposure therapy", could therefor, not always but sometimes be to accept and feel your low self esteem. 

That's what I meant by with having to address your low self esteem before - cause if you feel like you have to improve your self esteem in order to get something, you're at the same time telling yourself the same message...

"I am not worthy enough, I need to fix myself"

But of corse, there is a paradox

In order to get to that realization one might need to realize this thourgh raising his conciousness and " raising" the self esteem, til he reaches this endpoint.  Where he is enough regardless of what he feels.

It's kinda similar to spiral dynamics in a way, when thinking about it. One has to use ego to finally realize the true nature.

About the thought anology. This points at the same thing - having low self esteem is just a story, but of corse a story where one is trapped. Of corse one can't get out of it just like that...

But that's because of the other storys which says that low self esteem is bad and is the reason for my suffering and inability to in this case get a girlfriend.

Again, We are afraid of low self esteem - cause of what it means, so what do you think we try to avoid and fix... Low self esteem. You see what I mean?

Anyway - Teal swan covers this very well. Take a look at it if you want!

 

 

[Preety_India]

It'll definitely make you feel better. 

But.... 

It's temporary. 

Work on your inner self worth and see where it takes you. 

You don't need something to fix your self esteem because it becomes a crutch to carry wherever you go. 

Self confidence is an inner trait that you must work on rather than rely on something to supply it. 

 

[Gesundheit]

@SamC Low self-esteem is not a simple conscious thought that you either think or don't. It's an unconscious complex. The approach you're suggesting is not practical, in my experience. I know a girl who is literally obsessed with Teal Swan, there's not a single video of hers she hasn't watched. She knows all the theory, and yet she's still stuck with a poor self-image. I told her that that's due to lack of awareness. She used to have a serious eating disorder due to that issue alone, and working on it helped, but the underlying issues are still there to an intermediate degree in my opinion.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Gesundheit

[SamC]

7 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

@SamC Low self-esteem is not a simple conscious thought that you either think or don't. It's an unconscious complex. The approach you're suggesting is not practical, in my experience. I know a girl who is literally obsessed with Teal Swan, there's not a single video of hers she hasn't watched. She knows all the theory, and yet she's still stuck with a poor self-image. I told her that that's due to lack of awareness. She used to have a serious eating disorder due to that issue alone, and working on it helped, but the underlying issues are still there to an intermediate degree in my opinion.

@Gesundheit  You missed my whole point. Where did I say it's easy and that you can think yourself out of low self esteem?  I never said that, All I said was that a self image problem is a story about who you are which is not true. I wrote that not because that means that we can affirm ourselves or think ourselves out of there - but to make a point.

This may sound super radical, but there is nothing wrong with anyone. The identity of being a person who have low self esteem is false one, yet of corse we are still stuck there. Knowing this in itself will not solve your low self esteem either. It's about what you do with it.

Now, What do you think acting on the thought and story  " I need to fix myself because I have low self esteem" is based on?  Fear or love? Is the answer Fear? Right, fear - cause this thought assumes low self esteem is bad and that you need to become something else in order to be enough. 

Now look at what low self esteem is.

"  the self image of not being enough/ unworthy/ unloved as one is"

In other words, the real way to WORK on your self esteem, is sometimes to feel, accept and mindfully observe your low self esteem and letting yourself have it and feel the resistance to having it.

Scary huh?

Cause it is the low self esteem that we are trying to run away from and now all of a sudden, we are tasked to face that fear head on; instead of running away from it.

That's my point. That self love and self acceptance heals you - not trying to fix something which isn't broken. 

 

 

 

 

[Gesundheit]

@SamC Yes, I think anyone can get stuck in the story of having a low self-esteem, which in and of itself is just more low self-esteem. In which case, what you're suggesting can be helpful. But otherwise, I don't think that would be a successful strategy, especially when there are psychopaths out there waiting for people with low self-esteem to abuse.

You can love and accept yourself as a person who does not know mathematics, but that alone will never teach you mathematics. There's nothing wrong per se about not having a mathematics degree, but in the game of life, you will have to deal with money, which is numbers, and some people will spot your lack of knowledge and exploit it if you're not aware enough. When I was a kid, my father used to give me two coins of 5 to take one coin of 25. That's basically how psychopaths see people with low self-esteem.