Andrew Yang to be NYC's Next Mayor

[aurum]

17 minutes ago, Jennjenn said:

Good question.  The thing is that just as with the Maslow hierarchy of needs, there are things that should be dealt with first.
Cities focus on the “5 determinants of health” first before they can focus on anything else since those are the ones that predict the quality of life of their people. 
https://www.cdc.gov/socialdeterminants/about.html

 

 

I don’t doubt this is what cities do. And I don’t doubt that those things you just listed are essential.

But from my perspective, it’s time to be less “practical”.

Despite decades (centuries?) of humans focusing on their survival needs and trying to handle that “first”, it hasn’t succeeded.

I have problem with the way many people use Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. It can create a situation where people believe they must constantly put off what they really care about for the sake of survival.

This is the game the ego plays. Salvation will be in the future. Just a little bit more survival.

That has to end.

It’s time to do the things you really care about and live the life you want right now.

I’m not saying things will change tomorrow or that these problems aren’t complex. I’m not saying to not care about economics or education. 
 

But if we care about art, start measuring it now. It’s time to make it a priority and not just some fluff thing that isn’t “as important”. And stop being so beholden to a system that tells us that’s not possible.

[Jennjenn]

2 hours ago, aurum said:

I don’t doubt this is what cities do. And I don’t doubt that those things you just listed are essential.

But from my perspective, it’s time to be less “practical”.

Despite decades (centuries?) of humans focusing on their survival needs and trying to handle that “first”, it hasn’t succeeded.

I have problem with the way many people use Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. It can create a situation where people believe they must constantly put off what they really care about for the sake of survival.

This is the game the ego plays. Salvation will be in the future. Just a little bit more survival.

That has to end.

It’s time to do the things you really care about and live the life you want right now.

I’m not saying things will change tomorrow or that these problems aren’t complex. I’m not saying to not care about economics or education. 
 

But if we care about art, start measuring it now. It’s time to make it a priority and not just some fluff thing that isn’t “as important”. And stop being so beholden to a system that tells us that’s not possible.

I’m going to be 100% honest here. I can tell you from personal experience that if your basic needs are not met, meeting other needs is impossible. 

I immigrated at 18 on my own to the United States, then I got married and went through domestic violence and eviction. People can’t think straight when they don’t have shelter for the night or when going through abuse. They need to get out of the abusive relationship or find shelter first. The same goes for all the “5 determinants of health”. People can’t think straight if they’re sick and can’t afford health care, or when there is crime in your neighborhood or their neighborhoods are dirty and full of garbage, or when they don’t have access to quality education, or even when they don’t have access to high speed internet (now with the pandemic some kids are not going to online school because of that), etc...

But I understand your frustration. Most people don't seem to focus on other things but survival. But that is because society has never taken care of its people. Just imagine how much human potential goes to waste on the ghettos for the lack of opportunities. Only now we are seeing glimpses of change with policies such as UBI, but only 10 years ago a policy like that sounded ridiculous. Now it is a real possibility. 

 

One day, when more systems like UBI develop, people would be in the right state of mind, and that’s when the most beautiful art will emerge.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Jennjenn

[aurum]

27 minutes ago, Jennjenn said:

I’m going to be 100% honest here. I can tell you from personal experience that if your basic needs are not met, meeting other needs is impossible. 

I immigrated at 18 on my own to the United States, then I got married and went through domestic violence and eviction. People can’t think straight when they don’t have shelter for the night or when going through abuse. They need to get out of the abusive relationship or find shelter first. The same goes for all the “5 determinants of health”. People can’t think straight if they’re sick and can’t afford health care, or when there is crime in your neighborhood or their neighborhoods are dirty and full of garbage, or when they don’t have access to quality education, or even when they don’t have access to high speed internet (now with the pandemic some kids are not going to online school because of that), etc...

But I understand your frustration. Most people don't seem to focus on other things but survival. But that is because society has never taken care of its people. Just imagine how much human potential goes to waste on the ghettos for the lack of opportunities. Only now we are seeing glimpses of change with policies such as UBI, but only 10 years ago a policy like that sounded ridiculous. Now it is a real possibility. 

 

One day, when more systems like UBI develop, people would be in the right state of mind, and that’s when the most beautiful art will emerge.

I appreciate your honesty. And I’m glad we’re talking about this because it’s important. 

Here is where my perspective differs.

I’ve also been evicted. I’ve also seen the effects of poverty. I know what you mean when you say that “society doesn’t take care of people”.

And certainly we do need systems like UBI, education, etc. I’m not dismissing that.

What I’m saying is there needs to be a surrendering.

The reason society doesn’t take care of people isn’t because it hasn’t tried. It’s precisely because we are so wrapped up in our survival needs.

This is why Maslow’s needs distorts things. It paints this linear progression where one cannot be help unless they have adequately secured their own individual needs. It says “once I take care of me, THEN I’ll be of service. Then I’ll help.”

But it’s precisely that mentality that puts us all in competition. It reinforces the separate self that must fight for itself. And we never get to that point of “enough”.

In order to transition to a Green economy based on sharing and gift, individual needs must be surrendered to the collective. Ironically, this is how we will get our individual needs met. This is how people will be taken care of.

Anyway, I think we agree for the most part. I’m making a subtle point. I appreciate you pushing back on my points.

[Jennjenn]

4 hours ago, aurum said:

I appreciate your honesty. And I’m glad we’re talking about this because it’s important. 

Here is where my perspective differs.

I’ve also been evicted. I’ve also seen the effects of poverty. I know what you mean when you say that “society doesn’t take care of people”.

And certainly we do need systems like UBI, education, etc. I’m not dismissing that.

What I’m saying is there needs to be a surrendering.

The reason society doesn’t take care of people isn’t because it hasn’t tried. It’s precisely because we are so wrapped up in our survival needs.

This is why Maslow’s needs distorts things. It paints this linear progression where one cannot be help unless they have adequately secured their own individual needs. It says “once I take care of me, THEN I’ll be of service. Then I’ll help.”

But it’s precisely that mentality that puts us all in competition. It reinforces the separate self that must fight for itself. And we never get to that point of “enough”.

In order to transition to a Green economy based on sharing and gift, individual needs must be surrendered to the collective. Ironically, this is how we will get our individual needs met. This is how people will be taken care of.

Anyway, I think we agree for the most part. I’m making a subtle point. I appreciate you pushing back on my points.

One thing is true, and that is that abuse can happen in all socioeconomic status. Just look at Mike Pence, he didn’t invoke the 25th amendment even though Trump send a mob to kill him. He can say: there’s too much money or power or people to think about. But that’s exactly what someone in a abusive relationship thinks: money, stability, kids...

Also, when Republicans call for unity after an insurrection it's like a husband saying: don't call the police, think about the kids and our family” 

*rolling eyes emoji* times infinity 

?????

[Jennjenn]

16 minutes ago, Jennjenn said:

The reason society doesn’t take care of people isn’t because it hasn’t tried. It’s precisely because we are so wrapped up in our survival needs.

 

We only need to switch that up. Society doesn’t take care of people because of individualism. 
Only once we think collectively we can meet our individual needs. 

[NatureB]

Update: Andrew Yang had 1,000 volunteers sign up within 24 hours of his mayoral run announcement. I might fly out to NYC for a week in the Spring time to volunteer as well.

 

@aurum Would you say that society and individuals within society needed to learn the lesson that merely focusing on survival needs doesn't help us all thrive before we could focus on higher needs such as art, beauty, spiritual needs? And that we needed to fully exercise our individualism before we could snap back into a community focus? I can see that in my personal life and extrapolate it to a higher level, personally.

[aurum]

28 minutes ago, NatureB said:

Would you say that society and individuals within society needed to learn the lesson that merely focusing on survival needs doesn't help us all thrive before we could focus on higher needs such as art, beauty, spiritual needs? And that we needed to fully exercise our individualism before we could snap back into a community focus?

Yes it does.

The individual self will be let go of when it’s time for that. When the person is ready.

But notice how even this can be a trap.

”I cannot snap back into community or focus on art / beauty / consciousnesses yet. I need to learn more lessons.”

Or

”I cannot snap back into community or focus on art / beauty / consciousness yet. I am not a millionaire. I have not achieved financial independence”.

^maybe that is part of the story that needs to be let go of. What if you are ready right now but you are telling yourself you’re not?

What if financial independence is a total sham? 

Because let’s face it, when most people are talking about “meeting their survival needs”, that usually means money.

What if the attempt to meet your financial needs as an individual is part of the problem?

[NatureB]

17 minutes ago, aurum said:

What if the attempt to meet your financial needs as an individual is part of the problem?

What alternative do you have in mind?

[Jennjenn]

On 1/14/2021 at 7:56 PM, Girzo said:

I wish him to do well in those elections!!! 

I have finished reading his book "War on Normal People" today and he seems like a cool, well-informed, grounded guy. He has my trust.

Thank you for mentioning this book. I got curious so I’m listening to it right now, and it’s good! 

[Girzo]

On 15.01.2021 at 8:27 PM, Jennjenn said:

Only now we are seeing glimpses of change with policies such as UBI, but only 10 years ago a policy like that sounded ridiculous. Now it is a real possibility. 

Actually, it was a very real possibility 50 years ago. Republican president, Nixon, almost had implemented it, but his Ayn Rand-loving, liberal adviser had talked him out of it. So they added conditions, that it's only for working families, etc, to make it appealing to conservatives, yet the Democrats then blocked it, saying the bill doesn't go far enough.

The whole propsal had lost momentum over time and was to be forgotten. This moment marked a pivotal point at which the policy direction changed towards neoliberal, pro-capitalist one we know today.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Girzo

[Jennjenn]

Excerpt from the book “The war on normal people” by Andrew Yang. 
 

This book was written before covid and before the demised of Trump’s presidency. Which tells me that things could get even worst than what he predicted. 

“The group I worry about most is poor whites. Even now, people of color report higher levels of optimism than poor whites, despite worse economic circumstances. It’s difficult to go from feeling like the pillar of one’s society to feeling like an afterthought or failure. There is a strong heritage of military service in many white communities that will be subverted into antigovernment militias, white nationalist gangs, and bunkers in the woods. There will be more random mass shootings in the months ahead as middle-aged white men self-destruct and feel that life has no meaning. As the mindset of scarcity spreads and deepens, people’s executive functioning will erode. It takes self-control to resist base impulses. Racism and misogyny will become more and more pervasive even as they are policed in certain sectors.”

Edited January 19, 2021 by Jennjenn

[Jennjenn]

21 hours ago, Girzo said:

Actually, it was a very real possibility 50 years ago. Republican president, Nixon, almost had implemented it, but his Ayn Rand-loving, liberal adviser had talked him out of it. So they added conditions, that it's only for working families, etc, to make it appealing to conservatives, yet the Democrats then blocked it, saying the bill doesn't go far enough.

The whole propsal had lost momentum over time and was to be forgotten. This moment marked a pivotal point at which the policy direction changed towards neoliberal, pro-capitalist one we know today.

I read that in the book right now. Amazing how UBI passed the House of Representatives TWICE. 
 

it makes me think about how UBI was thought to be a necessity WITHOUT covid. And now with covid the government is still second guessing stimulus checks... imagine that... now should be the time to implement it more than ever and without a doubt. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Jennjenn