what are dreams ?

[Gesundheit]

@Someone here Ha! I like it when someone else plays my skeptic role.

https://www.actualized.org/insights/all-understanding-is-metaphoric

When I say there is nothing but the physical world, physical here is a label for the absolute that cannot be named. And how do I know the absolute? I don't. It's unknowable, but recognizable.

57 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Just nonsense. You clearly define yourself as the physical body. You don't go around confusing yourself with your mom don't you? 

What would happen if I confused myself with my mom? What's the difference? Will this distinction change reality? Or will it only change the way things are unfolding?

Edited January 16, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Someone here]

17 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

like it when someone else plays my skeptic role.

Have you been skeptical about your own skepticism? It goes full circle and eats itself up. 

18 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

What would happen if I confused myself with my mom? What's the difference? Will this distinction change reality? Or will it only change the way things are unfolding?

It won't change that you are you and not your mom. Apparently at least as experienced.

You can imagine yourself to be a table.. But if someone comes and cuts the table into halfs you won't be affected at all..if someone come and cuts the Gesundheit avatar into halfs.. The real you will freak the fuck out. 

[Gesundheit]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Have you been skeptical about your own skepticism? It goes full circle and eats itself up.

Of course. Duh.

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

It won't change that you are you and not your mom. Apparently at least as experienced.

You can imagine yourself to be a table.. But if someone comes and cuts the table into halfs you won't be affected at all..if someone come and cuts the Gesundheit avatar into halfs.. The real you will freak the fuck out. 

Why do you assume a person sitting there somewhere? The person is imaginary, i.e. unreal. The real me cannot be affected by anything, because if it could be affected, then it wouldn't be real. The real/absolute does not get affected. Impossible.

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Why do you assume a person sitting there somewhere? 

As far as language that assumes an "other."  I think it's ridiculous to police ourselves to such a degree that we avoid any reference to "individual other."  I think you are limiting yourself to a great degree.  I mean if you want to get down to it.. simply responding and writing responses on a forum equally assumes that there is an "individual other" as much as any other post even if you are careful about how you write.  That being said.. I am not making that criticism of anyone or illusion of ego... I'm only pointing out the hypocrisy of even bringing up that criticism in the first place when you are on a forum interacting.  

I'm  NOT interested in having this conversation about language and the implicit assumptions held within the normal way we communicate. . I think this is definitely not what I created this thread for..so it is off topic.  if you have something regarding dreams and whatnot go ahead. Otherwise have a nice one. 

[VeganAwake]

12 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

The real me

Are you sure this isn't imaginary also?

Maybe a sneaky trick of the ego/sense of self to keep itself alive.

LOOK closely and see what's found or not. ❤

[Gesundheit]

@Someone here You would have done better if you just answered the question directly. Why do you assume a person sitting there somewhere? Really, why? Ask yourself that question and see. There is a reason, but it is grounded in nothing. So, it's illusory. The absolute can have many POVs, and it can be devoid of any POV, like a coffee table. The truth is that it's both. That doesn't change anything or make the absolute relative. We are the absolute communicating on a forum. Doesn't matter what we think. That is the case. And it cannot be otherwise.

Dream well.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Javfly33]

There is the label of "an individual". The is the label of "other". There is the label of "body".

Yet when we think about existence, we definetely have a sense or intuition that for something to *really exist, It must hold more substance to It than just a mere label.

[Sempiternity]

9 hours ago, Someone here said:

how do you know that your whole life is not one giant ass dream and that you are literally hallucinating the entire fucking universe?.... This doesn't seem answerable to me. It's a tricky fucking devil . So I kinda gave up on that question and resided back to actuality + not knowing. 

Only way to know if you're dreaming is to wake up from the dream. You have to be outside of it, to see it for what it really is. Hence what a Awakening is. It's waking up from the dream of reality. So you will never be able to actually answer any of these questions without Awakening. So if you really want to understand, pick your poison, years of Meditation or heavy psychedelics. Do 5-MEO a few times and you'll eventually wake up from the dream. 

[ivankiss]

It's just thoughts. Much like anything you experience in your 'waking state'. Just different densities.

All happening within consciousness.

 

[Someone here]

7 hours ago, ivankiss said:

It's just thoughts. Much like anything you experience in your 'waking state'. Just different densities.

All happening within consciousness.

 

Sorry not sure what you mean that dreams are thoughts. 

[LastThursday]

On 16/01/2021 at 7:57 AM, Someone here said:

Isn't there a fundamental difference between the waking reality and dreams?  The latter is objective and independently there while dreams are just Your subjective imagination? I mean they do feel the same superficially but don't you believe that the waking world is what's actually "real"? 

The question of "realness" is quite a gnarly one. I'm just guesing that by objective you mean persistent and autonomous. But, I'm willing to bet there are people in your dreams and that they act independently of you: i.e. they are persistent and autonomous. You could argue that people in your dreams are random and don't hang around for long, but it's the same in waking life. That's just one example.

The more you examine dreams the more commonalities you see with being awake. In the end I think it's difficult to call one real and the other one subjective. Either both are real or both are subjective.  Where's the boundary between dream and awake? If that boundary is "waking up" then it's not inconceivable that you could wake up out of reality. Maybe there's no end to the waking up?

Edited January 17, 2021 by LastThursday

[seeking_brilliance]

It's direct. No separation. Dreams are "happening" within Astral. But prove to me that "waking physical" is not as well. 

[Someone here]

18 hours ago, LastThursday said:

The question of "realness" is quite a gnarly one. I'm just guesing that by objective you mean persistent and autonomous. But, I'm willing to bet there are people in your dreams and that they act independently of you: i.e. they are persistent and autonomous. You could argue that people in your dreams are random and don't hang around for long, but it's the same in waking life. That's just one example.

By "objective" I mean it exists independently of you being conscious of it. For example our shared earth exists independently of you or me perceiving It. While the earth that you see in your dreams only exists for you while you are dreaming it up.. And doesn't exist for me and for other 7 billions of people.  Note not stating that as a "fact". But at least that's what you temporarily assume regarding the waking earth and the earth in your dreams. 

 

18 hours ago, LastThursday said:

The more you examine dreams the more commonalities you see with being awake. In the end I think it's difficult to call one real and the other one subjective. Either both are real or both are subjective.  Where's the boundary between dream and awake? If that boundary is "waking up" then it's not inconceivable that you could wake up out of reality. Maybe there's no end to the waking up?

Good point. 

[Someone here]

Bumping this old thread of mine Instead of opening a new one. 

I want to learn more about dreams.