This is how Islamic Terrorists Think

[Mesopotamian]

I've been conversing with Iraqis on Facebook on why some of them support the bombing of American embassy in Baghdad, and I've noticed that the first thing they face you with is all the black points of American history since before its inception, and they start to cherry pick on facts, like they will mention how the atomic bomb destroyed Japan, while neglecting that it was Japan that dragged America into war while the latter proffered to stay neutral. They would mention the war on Vietnam, while neglecting the whole cold war in general and the split in the world between communism and capitalism.

So after tens of hours of discussions, I noticed the following: they actually think that America doesn't deserve this position in the world on the top of the pyramid economically and militarily, and thy want this to change that through any means possible. They do support that America get out of Iraq because they are accusing it of messing up Iraq continuously. Therefore they would support any means or any action, even if it is bombing embassies. They neglect the fact that the US is on the top of the pyramid today because there were enormous circumstances involved death of tens of millions of people like in WWII.

As for me, I see that those who are against America, like folks in Iran and Iraq are criticizing it from bellow, because they want to re-shape reality according to their own wishes using terrorism, and I feel sorry that the world is unable to grasp this, and even disgusted when some people try to find explanation by going inwards.

 

Of course those who I am conversing with are not the actual people who do terrorist acts, but they form the base for the arguments on which those act are implemented, probably folks who have even more radical views.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Mesopotamian

[Mesopotamian]

47 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Good lord, every post you make on this site is so emotionally charged against Iraq.

The situation is critical, you'll hear another collapse very soon. Iraq is on another verge of collapsing.

Foreign Policy just wrote: Iraq’s Economic Collapse Could Be Biden’s First Foreign-Policy Headache.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/12/14/iraqs-economic-collapse-could-be-bidens-first-foreign-policy-headache/

 

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Mesopotamian said:

 

As for me, I see that those who are against America, like folks in Iran and Iraq are criticizing it from bellow, because they want to re-shape reality according to their own wishes using terrorism, and I feel sorry that the world is unable to grasp this, and even disgusted when some people try to find explanation by going inwards.

 

Of course those who I am conversing with are not the actual people who do terrorist acts, but they form the base for the arguments on which those act are implemented, probably folks who have even more radical views.

Obviously terrorism is wrong, but this is an extremely narrow world view. You aren't actually considering their perspective, you are just assuming the US is right and they are wrong and they are 'below' the US because they are against it. Why don't you actually consider their life experiences and what caused them to hate the US.

Quote

As for Clinton and associates being “genuine humanitarians,” perhaps that explains why they were imposing sanctions on Iraq so murderous that both of the highly respected international diplomats who administered the “Oil for food” program resigned in protest because they regarded them as “genocidal,” condemning Clinton for blocking testimony at the UN Security Council. Or why he poured arms into Turkey as it was carrying out a horrendous attack on its Kurdish population, one of the worst crimes of the ‘90s. Or why he shifted Turkey from leading recipient of arms worldwide (Israel-Egypt excepted) to Colombia, as soon as the Turkish atrocities achieved their goal and while Colombia was leading the hemisphere by far in atrocious human rights violations. Or why he authorized the Texaco Oil Company to provide oil to the murderous Haitian junta in violation of sanctions.

 

[Mesopotamian]

7 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

So much for the Democracy that America installed

When will America learn that Western Liberal Democracy is not applicable for all people?

No you're wrong, precisely the mindset I want to go against. The Iraqi disabled the democracy theةselves with a law that instituted dictatorship of the majority in numbers in around 2010, announcing the winner is not the list that people elect on election day, but the list forms of combining the biggest two lists AFTER the results are announced. This gives time for further manipulation. The world gave up on us and started dealing with the new dictatorship emerged from this system

[Mesopotamian]

4 minutes ago, Raze said:

Obviously terrorism is wrong, but this is an extremely narrow world view. You aren't actually considering their perspective, you are just assuming the US is right and they are wrong and they are 'below' the US because they are against it. Why don't you actually consider their life experiences and what caused them to hate the US.

What caused them to hate the US is close-mindedness. All the US interventions are based on people not deciding their own fate themselves, because they are egotistical some of them, refuse to open their minds, and others are religious institutes who don't want to give up power or weak.

America did throw down Saddam because he was weak and taking hostage large fortune and millions of people who are unable to get rid of him.

Then the insurgent was because some of the morons shooting Americans and who work with them for years, prolonging the American occupation,

ISIS happened because Iraq is inherently has big areas of land, and it is a perfect incubator for terrorist organizations.

Killing of Suleimaini was to make it clear that diplomatic missions are a red line, it was very successful lesson,

US's intervention in Iraq is a universal fact within the grand delusion we are in, some people refuse to accept it.

 

12 minutes ago, Raze said:

As for Clinton and associates being “genuine humanitarians,” perhaps that explains why they were imposing sanctions on Iraq so murderous that both of the highly respected international diplomats who administered the “Oil for food” program resigned in protest because they regarded them as “genocidal,” condemning Clinton for blocking testimony at the UN Security Council. Or why he poured arms into Turkey as it was carrying out a horrendous attack on its Kurdish population, one of the worst crimes of the ‘90s. Or why he shifted Turkey from leading recipient of arms worldwide (Israel-Egypt excepted) to Colombia, as soon as the Turkish atrocities achieved their goal and while Colombia was leading the hemisphere by far in atrocious human rights violations. Or why he authorized the Texaco Oil Company to provide oil to the murderous Haitian junta in violation of sanctions.

That's utter BS. Saddam Hussain was breaking international laws, he viewd himself the national leaders of all Arab, invaded nations, caused one of the greatest natural disasters of 20th century by burning oil. He had to go right away , sanctions are there for a purpose. Fuck people, they are dying anyways , the truth is that international laws should be uphold and respected, don't talk to me about people and their life, they are insignificant comparing to preserving the international laws, or else, the US might have allowed taking over of Kuwait and then maybe Saudi after it, why you think it is not OK to do that?

It is not my fucking responsibility to deal with this split and borderline you guys at the west are having, some want to uphold international laws and flow of oil, and some are worried about children's life. Make your mind about this please!! Your division is what's tearing us apart most. I want to understand what the fuck the world wants from us, people are dying anyway and you can't make up your minds!

[Emerald]

One thing to understand is that America is an imperialist nation that uses its huge military budget for two primary benefits.

Number one, it enables the military industrial complex to have unfettered access to the pot of American tax dollars under the guise of defense. Basically, the more military conflicts there are, the more weapons and fighter jets get made, the more money goes to the industry owners (like Bowing and Honeywell) AND the politicians they pay off. Basically, war is profitable for the political class and the owner class, because the middle class will let them take their tax dollars willingly if it is framed as "defense".

Number two, America profits most from goods that are made by people living in third world countries... AND resources found in third world countries. So, in order to keep the populace of said third world countries desperate, they occupy the territory and suppress popular uprisings: both left wing and right wing. And America will come up with narratives that these small third world countries are a genuine threat to American freedom and democracy... despite the fact that we have the biggest military in the world and these countries are powerless to defend themselves.

So, with regard to Iraq, the American government used the attacks on 9/11 (which were carried out by SAUDI ARABIAN terrorists and lead by Osama Bin Laden of AFGANISTAN) to justify the war in IRAQ.

Number one, Saudi Arabia and Afganistan are NOT Iraq... so there was no reason for us to invade them.

Number two, even if the terrorists had been from Iraq (which they weren't), terrorists are typically radicals and don't have anything to do with the government or the people of the place they inhabit. For example, if a bunch of KKK members decided to go fly planes into some buildings in other countries, it wouldn't be the US government's fault, nor would it be the fault of US citizens. 

So, we had no reason to invade Iraq other that for the US government and US business class's monetary gain... aka lots of oil in Iraq.

And the US military has killed over half a million Iraqi citizens... men, women, and children. So, OF COURSE the Iraqis will be upset and angry at America. They have likely experienced the deaths of so many children, brothers, sisters, friends, grandparents, parents, etc. because of the U.S. occupation of Iraq. 

And even though terrorism is always to be condemned, we must understand the roots of where it comes from. 

When you leave a population desperate, you will have lots of hurt and anger... which may (in some cases) turn to right wing radicalization and terrorism. 

So, when these Iraqis are talking about bombing the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, that's obviously something to be condemned and discouraged... but the deeper root cause of that is none other than the corrupt foreign policy enacted by the U.S. Government at the behest of the owners of the Military Industrial Complex and the Fossil Fuel Industry.

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Emerald

[Emerald]

9 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

So much for the Democracy that America installed

When will America learn that Western Liberal Democracy is not applicable for all people?

It's about installing just the opposite of Democracy. The U.S. benefits if they can put a dictator in charge. It keeps the native population from uprising.

But of course, they will call these dictators "moderates" and tout democracy. But that's just smoke and mirrors. The real point is to strip democracy and maintain control of the region and its labor and resources through military might.

 

[Gesundheit]

Lol totally a clickbait. Terrorists don't think. If they would think, they would be afraid, but they're not.

And as for the thread, you should really, really study this video:

 

[Carl-Richard]

53 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Lol totally a clickbait. Terrorists don't think. If they would think, they would be afraid, but they're not.

And as for the thread, you should really, really study this video:

 

Terrorists do think, and they think they're right. What is really the difference between a soldier going to war and the suicide bomber blowing himself up?

[Carl-Richard]

15 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Good lord, every post you make on this site is so emotionally charged against Iraq.

It's obviously important to him as he is from the middle east. Things you hate are always touching on the things that are of fundamental importance to yourself in some way. For example, I've noticed in myself a strong compulsion of wanting to expose and denegrate people I perceive to be narcissists on this forum, because I fundamentally value being authentic to myself (Fi), and that is analogous to a form of narcisissm.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Terrorists do think, and they think they're right. What is really the difference between a soldier going to war and the suicide bomber blowing himself up?

There's a difference between thinking and having firm beliefs. It's the difference between having thoughts, and having thoughts about thoughts. A difference in awareness/meta-cognition.

[Carl-Richard]

18 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

There's a difference between thinking and having firm beliefs. It's the difference between having thoughts, and having thoughts about thoughts. A difference in awareness/meta-cognition.

Many terrorists are capable of nuanced thinking, just like many geniuses are capable of terrorism. Thinking can only happen on top of beliefs.

[Mesopotamian]

14 hours ago, Emerald said:

One thing to understand is that America is an imperialist nation that uses its huge military budget for two primary benefits.

Number one, it enables the military industrial complex to have unfettered access to the pot of American tax dollars under the guise of defense. Basically, the more military conflicts there are, the more weapons and fighter jets get made, the more money goes to the industry owners (like Bowing and Honeywell) AND the politicians they pay off. Basically, war is profitable for the political class and the owner class, because the middle class will let them take their tax dollars willingly if it is framed as "defense".

Number two, America profits most from goods that are made by people living in third world countries... AND resources found in third world countries. So, in order to keep the populace of said third world countries desperate, they occupy the territory and suppress popular uprisings: both left wing and right wing. And America will come up with narratives that these small third world countries are a genuine threat to American freedom and democracy... despite the fact that we have the biggest military in the world and these countries are powerless to defend themselves.

So, with regard to Iraq, the American government used the attacks on 9/11 (which were carried out by SAUDI ARABIAN terrorists and lead by Osama Bin Laden of AFGANISTAN) to justify the war in IRAQ.

Number one, Saudi Arabia and Afganistan are NOT Iraq... so there was no reason for us to invade them.

Number two, even if the terrorists had been from Iraq (which they weren't), terrorists are typically radicals and don't have anything to do with the government or the people of the place they inhabit. For example, if a bunch of KKK members decided to go fly planes into some buildings in other countries, it wouldn't be the US government's fault, nor would it be the fault of US citizens. 

So, we had no reason to invade Iraq other that for the US government and US business class's monetary gain... aka lots of oil in Iraq.

And the US military has killed over half a million Iraqi citizens... men, women, and children. So, OF COURSE the Iraqis will be upset and angry at America. They have likely experienced the deaths of so many children, brothers, sisters, friends, grandparents, parents, etc. because of the U.S. occupation of Iraq. 

And even though terrorism is always to be condemned, we must understand the roots of where it comes from. 

When you leave a population desperate, you will have lots of hurt and anger... which may (in some cases) turn to right wing radicalization and terrorism. 

So, when these Iraqis are talking about bombing the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, that's obviously something to be condemned and discouraged... but the deeper root cause of that is none other than the corrupt foreign policy enacted by the U.S. Government at the behest of the owners of the Military Industrial Complex and the Fossil Fuel Industry.

 

That narrative is fucking my life and the life of millions like me, and it is the source of terrorism in the world. You're creating evil without your knowledge by adopting some of these concepts, and you are perpetuating the cycle that you're talking about. Gosh, I don't even know where to start.

That cycle of weapon making, tax money, I am not in a position to agree or disagree on that, and I don't care at the moment, but let's assume it makes sense

14 hours ago, Emerald said:

And America will come up with narratives that these small third world countries are a genuine threat to American freedom and democracy... despite the fact that we have the biggest military in the world and these countries are powerless to defend themselves.

They are a threat to America, democracy and world peace, but you just don't know, but you act like you do. People like my hero George W. Bush otherwise has access to collective intelligence, something you do lack, and he knows better than anyone. My country is not small, and it is not even a country, it doesn't fit the definition, and the concept of a country is just forced down its throat. In reality it has massive lands and resources that enable terrorist organizations to flourish. We didn't earn our independent for example, the resources we have, we didn't earn them, we didn't develop oil technology, therefore we will be using it irresponsibly, you just don't know, and you assume that we are a nation that will develop like others. We don't fit that model. Iraq doesn't fit that model, go and see the indicators yourself.

14 hours ago, Emerald said:

So, with regard to Iraq, the American government used the attacks on 9/11 (which were carried out by SAUDI ARABIAN terrorists and lead by Osama Bin Laden of AFGANISTAN) to justify the war in IRAQ.

Number one, Saudi Arabia and Afganistan are NOT Iraq... so there was no reason for us to invade them.

They do qualify to become incubators for terrorist organazations, cuz they are not countries, they lack the elements of what makes up a country, and they are very diverse, so (for Iraq) it has plenty of ethnicities and nationalities, they cannot unite. you have to be able to see that cuz your view is very shallow. You have to accept to a certain degree the outcome of US as the biggest country with access to intellegence. It is not my problem if you don't have any faith in your country, cuz this is fucking my life up, and I'll tell  you why in a moment.

14 hours ago, Emerald said:

Number two, even if the terrorists had been from Iraq (which they weren't), terrorists are typically radicals and don't have anything to do with the government or the people of the place they inhabit. For example, if a bunch of KKK members decided to go fly planes into some buildings in other countries, it wouldn't be the US government's fault, nor would it be the fault of US citizens. 

That's the idiotic BS that you guys think, what if I tell you that for 10 years, there are explosions near my house, and I wake up on the sounds of them in the morning because TERRORISTS ARE LIVING HIDING WITHIN PEOPLE, Like it is very idiotic to me that you can't see that, you don't know that, and you assume that there's a society that will pure itself. THIS IRAQI NATION DON'T HAVE COHESIVE SOCIETY. Why do you think the insurgence lasted for years? precisely because terrorists were LIVING AND HIDING AMONG PEOPLE.

14 hours ago, Emerald said:

So, we had no reason to invade Iraq other that for the US government and US business class's monetary gain... aka lots of oil in Iraq.

You have all the reasons you're just stupid or delusional to see them and you don't want to take responsibility for the peace in the world.

14 hours ago, Emerald said:

And the US military has killed over half a million Iraqi citizens... men, women, and children. So, OF COURSE the Iraqis will be upset and angry at America. They have likely experienced the deaths of so many children, brothers, sisters, friends, grandparents, parents, etc. because of the U.S. occupation of Iraq.

BECAUSE EXACTLY TERRORISTS WERE LIVING AMONG PEOPLE, OPERATING AMONG PEOPLE, YOU GO TO SLEEP AT NIGHT, THEY DON'T, THEY PLAN BOMBS ALL OVER THE STREEETS TO EXPLODE NEXT DAY AND KILL PEOPLE AND AMERICANS AND EVERYONE AFFILIATED WITH THEM, IN CLUDING IRAQI SECURITY.

14 hours ago, Emerald said:

And even though terrorism is always to be condemned, we must understand the roots of where it comes from. 

IT COMES FROM YOU, THINKING THAT YOU KNOW EVERYTHING, BUT YOU ARE JUST AN IGNORANT WHO HAVE'NT READ ENOUGH, AND WHO DOESN'T Trust HER COUNTRY AND HER LEADERS, AND THINKS SHE KNOWS BETTER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE, WHILE SIPPING GREEN TEA AND EATING AVOCADOS.

14 hours ago, Emerald said:

So, when these Iraqis are talking about bombing the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, that's obviously something to be condemned and discouraged... but the deeper root cause of that is none other than the corrupt foreign policy enacted by the U.S. Government at the behest of the owners of the Military Industrial Complex and the Fossil Fuel Industry.

AGAIN YOU ARE IGNORANT, CUZ BOMBING EMBASSIES MAKES IRAQ ISOLATED ON  INTERNATIONAL LEVEL, THOSE WHO BOMB EMBASSIES ARE NOT WILLING TO ABIDE BY INTERNATIONAL LAWS, THIS IS INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM, AND IRAQI GOVERNMENT ARE UNABLE TO STOP THEM, SO MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MIND WEST, YOU EITHER WANT TO FORCE IRAQ TO ABIDE BY INTERNATIOHNAL LAWYS, OR LEAVE IT, and IT WILL 100% BECOME THE INCUBATOR OF TERRORISM AGAIN,

YOUR CURRENT MINDSET IS RUINING MY LIFE, BECAUSE THIS MEANS YOU ARE OK WITH IRAQIS BREAKING INTERNATIONAL LAWS, WHICH MEANS IRAQ WILL STAY ISOLATED FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD, AND ITS PASSPORT WILL BE THE WEAKEST IN THE WORLD, NOT A SINGLE STATE AROUND IN THE WORLD ALLOW ME TO ENTER WITH NO VISA, AND IT HAS THE WORST PASSPORT IN THE WORLD, WHCIH I CANNOT GET, BECAUSE OF DUMB ARGUMENTS LIKE THIS.

THOSE WHO BOMB THE EMBASSY ARE DOING IT TO GET REVENGE BECAUSE THEIR HEARTS ARE FULL OF HATE TWOARDS THE BODY OF AMERICA, AND WHEN YOU ADOPT SIMILAR IDEAS, THEN YOU ARE SIDING WITH THEM, THOES SAME PEOPLE WHO SUFFOCATE INDIVIDUALITY AND THEY WANT NOTHING BUT TOTAL ISOLASION THAN THE REST OF THE WORLD SO THAT THEY CAN SIT AND HATE EVERYBODY ELSE AND HATE EACH OTHER.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Mesopotamian

[Parththakkar12]

On 1/14/2021 at 8:49 PM, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Good lord, every post you make on this site is so emotionally charged against Iraq.

I mean, if you're talking about telling people that 'firing rockets on embassies is bad', well, I would also be very emotionally charged about that! That's very serious.

[Mesopotamian]

2 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

I mean, if you're talking about telling people that 'firing rockets on embassies is bad', well, I would also be very emotionally charged about that! That's very serious.

Thank you!

[Hulia]

@Mesopotamian I understand you so good, my friend. USA help my country to struggle a strong and aggressive neighbor, which have already occupied a part of our territory. Luckily the majority of my countrymen appreciate this support from overseas. 

I also get sick when I hear all the anti-american conspiracy theories. Here in West Europe or even from the americans themselves, when they try to explain me what is REALLY going on in my country and the fatal role of USA. Do you know what makes me angry and sad?

It´s not the COMPASSION with the people of your or my country or Syria or Afhganistan which fuels all that conspiracy theories against USA and NATO. No! On the contrary. It´s INDIFFERENCE.

Some shitty dictator somewhere in the desert kills his people with chemical weapon? So what? Different countries - different traditions.  Let´s respesct their culture, their lifestyle. Maybe they like it this way! Not everybody needs to be free and safe. Let´s repsect their choice!

I could vomit of so much hypocricy. What they really are saying: Let us alone wit that shit, not our business. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Hulia

[Hulia]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

If some dictator wants to be tyrannical and not comply with international law, than it’s none of the West’s business to intervene.

Meh, I think America could stand to have one of its embassies destroyed, I would want to burn an American embassy if they toppled my leader.

Your leader.... Oh dear, you seem to have a Stockholm Syndrom. Was your farther or somebody from your surrounding cruel to you?

[Emerald]

Listen, given that you are from Iraq (which I did not know before), despite that my circumstances are very different from yours, I can appreciate how traumatic it must be when you experience radicals and terrorists in your own homeland.

I know that it is easier for me to get angry at radicals here (because they are people that I know who are around me), than I am to get angry at more abstract things like governments and corporate bureaucracies. Even if I know it's not wise, it just feels more personal. 

So, if I add on top of that experiencing these people doing terrible things and experiencing loss as a result, it makes sense that you would side with America over them... by polarizing yourself in the opposite direction from the radicals and allying yourself with their enemies.

Basically, "an enemy of my enemy is my friend."

This also makes sense that you would come to idolize George W. Bush and America because they appear as the good guys in comparison to the bad guy radicals that you've experienced.

But this perspective, though understandable, fails to recognize the root cause for terrorism and radicalization in Iraq... which is U.S. foreign policy and military occupation.

Everything that I said about American foreign policy is true, even if that is hard to swallow. 

America's whole game is to divide and conquer within the territories that they occupy to keep the people from forming popular uprisings. That way, they can stay in power.

This leads to atomization and hostility amongst people within said territory... as well as left wing and right wing radicalization. Both of which are quashed by the U.S... not because they're doing the right thing but simply because they don't want a challenge to their power. Doing the right thing, when it happens, only happens because it serves U.S. Power and the financial interests of the owner class.

So, everything you just told me fits within the range of what America does to a country it occupies. And it appears that it has left you feeling that atomization and substituting the need for solidarity by identifying with the occupying force of America. But America is no hero in that situation.

American foreign policy is (in large part) the catalyst for the terrorism and radicalization that you dislike so intensely.

Edit: To be clear, I want to differentiate 'identifying the root catalyst for terrorism' from 'terrorist apologism'.

I'd wager that you've experienced a lot of terrorist apologism in the context in which you live because there's bound to be lots of anger towards the U.S. So, you may believe that I'm doing the same thing. But I am not. Terrorism is not the answer to oppressive U.S. foreign policy. I'm just pointing to the primary catalyst for terrorism... which is U.S. foreign policy and the resulting atomization and oppression of the population.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Emerald

[Parththakkar12]

10 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Meh, I think America could stand to have one of its embassies destroyed, I would want to burn an American embassy if they toppled my leader.

I don't know if you fully appreciate what's being said here. Imagine having a building, outside which there is a sign that says 'Don't fire rockets at this building'. Think about what the level of development of the locals must be for that sign to have to exist!! Think about how absurd it would sound. Think about what the norm must be for the people to have to be told that.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Parththakkar12

[Hulia]

6 hours ago, Emerald said:

America's whole game is to divide and conquer within the territories that they occupy to keep the people from forming popular uprisings. That way, they can stay in power.

Oh yes.. Let´s take Germany and Korea. What America have done to them - divided and conquered.  Terrible...