Sleep Schedule: 6am Club

[r0ckyreed]

Hello!  I have currently been doing a habit of going to bed at around 10:00pm and waking up at 6:00am and it has been very productive for me.  

I was wondering what kinds of sleep schedules you all operate from?  How many hours do you all get and what is the recommended?

 

I tried to do the 5am club, but I think I need at least 8 hours of sleep.  I notice that I am very productive in the mornings and in the evenings (I take advantage of downtime in morning and evening).

 

My biggest issue is that I like working later till 11:00 or 12:00 (midnight) and I also like working early at 6:00am.  My problem is that I am not sure if 6-7 hours of sleep is healthy for me long term?  FYI, I consider myself above average health wise.  

I have recently been going to bed at 12:00am and waking up at 8am.  I am trying to reconcile whether going to bed earlier to wake up earlier is worth it for me or if going to bed later and waking up later is better?  

 

My routine is when I wake up in the morning at 6am, I do one hour of meditation and then I do my workout.

But when I wake up later in the day (8am), I often neglect my workout.

It might be a dumb question, but is going to bed earlier worth it?  My family stays up later and they were concerned about me going to bed earlier around 9pm to wake up at 5am.  

Any thoughts?  

Thank you!

BTW, tomorrow I am going to do my first 5 hour meditation retreat!  Wish me luck!  

[xxxx]

3 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

I was wondering what kinds of sleep schedules you all operate from?  How many hours do you all get and what is the recommended?

4 am - 10 am now. 

6 - 7 hours is good enough for me. 

During university, I trained myself to sleep for 4 - 5 hours, without feeling tired.

It’s pretty flexible, I think.

3 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

6:00am

My brain just doesn’t work at this time, haha! You can hold a gun to my head and threaten me to work for my life - I’d happily choose death. 

About missing your workout if you wake up post 8 - why can’t you train a little later in the day - 5 pm-ish? It’s not so much about when you wake up, but about allotting a specific time and sticking to it. 

I’m a night workout person, i.e. 9 pm. It seems to be working great for me. It was difficult, ab initio - but I realised that it suit my lifestyle the best, and I shouldn’t force myself to do something I dislike doing. 

3 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

I have recently been going to bed at 12:00am and waking up at 8am.  I am trying to reconcile whether going to bed earlier to wake up earlier is worth it for me or if going to bed later and waking up later is better?  

Listen to your body; it gives you all the answers. If you constantly feel tired, you got to re-think your sleep schedule, diet, etc. See what works best for you.

You don’t have to deliberately go to sleep earlier because some people have told that that holds the key to success, or whatever.

It’s highly subjective. 

If 12 am - 8 am makes you happy, do it. Don’t think so much into it.

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About the meditation retreat - my best wishes! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by xxxx

[At awe]

5.45 up every day. Started with it about 2 years ago. 

Ca 8 h sleep seems to be optimal. 10 h and more and I get a feeling that reminds light hangover?

I guess its worth testing different options to know.

[fridjonk]

Before Christmas, I was doing 9 PM bed, and 5 AM wakeup. Never felt as clear-headed when I was doing it, especially after running. 

Now I'm doing 2-3 AM and waking up at 11 AM and it doesn't feel nearly as good. Really aching to go back to the 5 AM but it takes a little effort and progresses slowly but surely. 

Personally, I would prioritize 8-hour sleep over getting up earlier. But I've found that sticking to the 5 AM, I got my night owl creativity and productivity slowly and it just started to change. I don't really believe you're stuck with either being a morning person or a night owl, it's just that once you've been doing either one all your life, it can take time to adjust.  

If I were you, I'd sacrifice the late-night working and stick to 9 am-5 am. 

[r0ckyreed]

2 hours ago, fridjonk said:

Personally, I would prioritize 8-hour sleep over getting up earlier. But I've found that sticking to the 5 AM, I got my night owl creativity and productivity slowly and it just started to change. I don't really believe you're stuck with either being a morning person or a night owl, it's just that once you've been doing either one all your life, it can take time to adjust.  

If I were you, I'd sacrifice the late-night working and stick to 9 am-5 am. 

Thank you!  

 

9 hours ago, xxxx said:

About missing your workout if you wake up post 8 - why can’t you train a little later in the day - 5 pm-ish?

I mean sometimes I workout in the evenings, but what helps me out is getting all the hard work done at the start of the day that way its downhill from there.  My philosophy is to get the hard stuff done at the start of the day when I am refreshed and rested.  Once I get the hard work done in the morning, I have the rest of the day a lot easier.

 

9 hours ago, xxxx said:

About the meditation retreat - my best wishes! 

Thank you!  I just did 4h 30m of meditation (7:00am - 11:30pm).  I had to get up, walk around (walking meditation), and use the bathroom like 3 times, but other than that, that was the longest period of time that I meditated and I feel refreshed.

[Rinne]

You need to be disciplined if you want to get up at 6am

[flowboy]

@r0ckyreed  I did 5am for a while, but that meant I needed to go to bed at 20:30. Then I did 6am for a while, going to bed at 21:30.

Because I need my 8 hours, and it takes about 30 minutes to fall asleep too, which don't count as sleep.

Now, I'm going to try 8:00 - 23:30. Reason being that I seem to notice that I work better later in the day, so I want to try it out and see if I feel better on it.

There is no sleep schedule that gives you more time. It makes no sense. The amount of sleep you need is constant. To optimize productivity and health, the bedtimes should be the same every day. But what they should be is really a matter of personal preference.

If you live with people who are on a different schedule, and you feel pressure or temptation to hang out with them past your own bedtime, then it's going to be very hard to get enough sleep consistently. At least, I have noticed that I succeed in the short term and fail in the long term, because at the end of the day, willpower is lowest, and I need willpower to stop a conversation and say "I'm going to bed" on time. In that case I would prefer to align my bedtime with that of the people I live with, at least somewhat.

I think Matthew Walker said that anything under 7 hours a night is so bad for your performance, that you might as well be drunk.

There is a minor percentage of people who have a specific allele that allows them to function perfectly on 4-5 hours a night.

If you don't have that genetic variant, then you are in the same boat with the rest, who all should get at least 7.5 hours a night. People who say they can train themselves to require less, are either genetically gifted, or kidding themselves and compromising their health.

At least, that's what I remember from this interview.

• Men who sleep 5-6 hours a night, will have the same level of testosterone of someone 10 years their senior. So a lack of sleep will age you by 10 years in that sense.

Edited January 15, 2021 by flowboy

[Username]

On 14/01/2021 at 9:25 AM, xxxx said:

4 am - 10 am now. 

6 - 7 hours is good enough for me. 

During university, I trained myself to sleep for 4 - 5 hours, without feeling tired.

It’s pretty flexible, I think.

You have a broken circadian clock because of artificial light. I have very similar sleeping pattern. However if I spent whole day outdoors I can easily recalibrate to wake up very early. I don't have any suggestions how to fix it. I'm using red bulb to induce melatonin production and use screen filter but it's not enough for me.

[xxxx]

13 minutes ago, Username said:

You have a broken circadian clock because of artificial light. I have very similar sleeping pattern. However if I spent whole day outdoors I can easily recalibrate to wake up very early. I don't have any suggestions how to fix it. I'm using red bulb to induce melatonin production and use screen filter but it's not enough for me.

Yeah, I guess. This exacerbated during quarantine, and now I find this schedule pretty nice. I know, I’ll have to change it once things get back to being completely normal.

About the recalibration part - as a student, I used to be out a lot during the day, and because the university I was in had a pretty good night life, I used to stay up late; hence, I do not know if this staying out thing works for me. 

Moreover, I put on dim yellow light in my room, and use a screen filter, too - but it’s of little use. 

I asked a similar question on the Health sub-forum, a few days ago, about the long-term effects of being a night owl; sometimes I’m afraid my health will get messed up if I continue with this super flexible sleeping pattern.

Maybe this is genetic - my dad and brother also function in a similar manner. I’ll probably do more research on this, and find solutions that fit my case. 

Let me know if you find anything. 

Thank you!

32 minutes ago, flowboy said:

People who say they can train themselves to require less, are either genetically gifted, or kidding themselves and compromising their health.

I hear ya, buddy. I have been doing this ‘training’ part for sometime now - since I was 20, and there haven’t been any issues, yet. 

I’m 24 now, and don’t want any health repercussions when I’m 40. 

Let me know if you have any thoughts on how to fix this. Your help shall be immensely appreciated.

Thanks for the video. 

 

 

[flowboy]

@xxxx I'm just parroting what I remember from the video. I think if your dad and brother function similarly, and they thrive in that way without any of the side effects commonly associated with chronic lack of sleep, then maybe them and you have that gene Walker mentions.

I suppose you could test it by sleeping only 5 hours a night for a month and seeing if you are fine. That would confirm it

Another thing you could maybe do, is organise a retreat for yourself without any devices. Get a cabin in the woods, only take books with you, don't use laptop or phone. Then go to bed whenever you feel like it, get up whenever you feel like it and see how your sleep pattern naturally adjusts, and what it balances out to. What do you think? How many hours would you get? Just brainstorming here.

[obie]

Here's the view of Sadghuru on the impact of food on health/sleep etc.

I find this very interesting, he's basically saying that the body needs much more energy and therefore more sleep when we don't eat the right food.

So if we eat food that optimizes our energy level and doesn't take much effort for the body to digest, we would need less sleep.

 

 

[Gesundheit]

No schedule. It depends on how I am feeling and what I have to do. I usually wake up spontaneously at 3-4ich AM, sometimes before, depending on when I go to bed. Generally, I'm not able to sleep more than 4-5 hours continuously during night, and 1-2 hours during day. Lately, I've been feeling more sleepy but haven't adjusted/recovered fully yet. I don't usually set alarms, but when I do, I usually wake up right before it runs.

[xxxx]

50 minutes ago, flowboy said:

1) I suppose you could test it by sleeping only 5 hours a night for a month and seeing if you are fine. That would confirm it

2) Another thing you could maybe do, is organise a retreat for yourself without any devices. Get a cabin in the woods, only take books with you, don't use laptop or phone. Then go to bed whenever you feel like it, get up whenever you feel like it and see how your sleep pattern naturally adjusts, and what it balances out to.

3) What do you think? How many hours would you get? Just brainstorming here.

1) Oh, nice idea. I’ll do this (in a conscious manner) - and try the 2 am - 7 / 8 am schedule, and see how it works. I’ll try to be as stringent with it as possible. 

Shall limit the use of my gadgets (at least, not use it 1 hour before bedtime) for the purpose of this challenge, haha! 

2) A retreat, right now, wouldn’t be convenient, but shall think about it in a couple of months.

3) If I am not being interrupted by the use of gadgets, etc., I think 6 - 7 hours would be most conducive. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by xxxx

[martins name]

Sleep is supposed to nurture and empower you. Don't compromise on it. Your sleeping schedule should be what nurtures you the most. The real issue is getting up from bed and having a solid morning routine.

Self domination is not sustainable. It's better to support yourself than to demand of yourself. Do things that naturally supports healthier sleep like: exercise, healthy diet, no sugar, don't eat for at least 3 hours before bed, spiritual practice, drink lavender tea before bed, keep you room dark and noice free, have a nice bedtime ritual with gratitude practice. If your body and mind is healthy you will naturally pounce out of bed so focus on healing yourself.

Our computer/phone screens and artificial lights messes up our natural need for sleep. Try not using screens for a day and only use dim lights during the evening and see when you naturally feel like going to bed. 

Good luck with the meditating and examine if it impacts your sleep in any way.

Edited January 15, 2021 by martins name

[flowboy]

@xxxx  I just listened to the second half of that podcast episode again, from about 81 minutes until 115 minutes. I now feel more hesitant about recommending a sleep experiment like that. Apparently, less than 1% of people have that genetic variation. Also, just one short night will disrupt the body's ability to clean up the daily accumulation of cancer cells effectively. And even if you feel fine and not sleep deprived, it doesn't mean you are, because people are bad at knowing this. It's tricky. Good luck!

[xxxx]

@flowboy Thank you for the heads-up. Shall look into it with caution. 

[Talinn]

@Gesundheit I hope you will prioritize trying to get as much sleep as possible so that you can get the rest you need. I see the effects of people not getting enough sleep every day I work, and overjoyed when their sleep is improved. If necessary, you should see a doctor, there could be several reasons this is happening. Anyway I hope you can sleep better soon 

@r0ckyreed

For all of your options you should monitor your energy levels after you wake up and during the day in a sleep diary. And then compare them. Since you're stuck between 9am-5pm and midnight-8 why not try something like 11pm-7? 

Whatever you land on, keep in mind that your chronotype can change as you get older and you should continuously monitor it. By the way, you can actually go to a sleep doctor and have a more accurate and thorough review of your chronotype through things like the Munich Chronotype Questionnaire. They might be hard to get if you don't really have sleep problems, depending on your area, but if you looked around I'm sure you could get one done. 

And same thing for you too, never sacrifice sleep. :]

[Saupahar]

After coming back from 10 days vipassana retreat i have started waking up at 4 am. 

There i had to wake up at 4 but it's a choice now that i have to make whether to wake up or not.

[Gesundheit]

@Talinn You're sweet. Thank you. I slept well last night, and now I feel a lot better.