Trouble with psychedelics

[infinitenrgy]

Long story short, I’ve been doing psychedelics for about a year. I got into them before I found Leo and mainly used them for fun, but after I found Leo I have been very interested in having a breakthrough experience. I’ve mainly done acid about 20+ times and I’ve done mushrooms a few times too. My craziest trip was a 4 gram mushroom trip that terrified me and actually is what led me to learning about breaking through and how ego death is similar to enlightenment. 

 

After that trip I did another mushroom trip eventually but it gave me the same vibes as the terrifying one and I couldn’t enjoy it, so after that I stuck to doing lsd. Im always pretty comfortable on lsd but there has been a certain point in all of my recent trips where I start to feel uncomfortable there too. 

 

I had one high dose lsd trip where I was smoking outside and started to feel like I was becoming everything around me and like I was dying. I felt like I wasn’t ready for it in that moment and realized ego death sounds beautiful until you are looking right at it and your going to die. It was like I had a choice in that moment to keep experiencing that and see what happens or run into my room and distract myself with watching plant earth instead. I was terrified of dying so I ran and watched tv. 

 

This seems to be a re accruing thing that happens to me now in all of my trips even in low doses. Not as intense, but I seem to keep finding my way to what feels like a breakthrough point, but then being there terrifies me, makes my heart beat fast as shit and makes me feel like I’m not ready so I distract from the experience rather then letting go into it and surrendering. 

 

Each time I get to this point it scares me less and is getting easier to ease into each trip. I’m just wondering if all I need to do now is work on letting go and surrendering into that? Or is there more to the fear I’m experiencing when I get this deep? 

 

[Grateful Dead]

2 minutes ago, infinitenrgy said:

if all I need to do now is work on letting go and surrendering into that?

Yeah thats it and keep your body open

no need to force anything but it's good to have a strong desire to experience it
also you could contemplate your fear for example

[infinitenrgy]

@acidgoofy  I will def have to work on contemplating the fear. I have a strong desire to experience it until things start to get weird and it might be about to happen and then the fear kicks in and ruins the rest of the trip bc I don’t want to experience it anymore once I get scared and tell myself I’m not ready for it

[Moksha]

Why put yourself in a situation where you fear? Listen to your instincts. Follow your feelings. You can realize without needing to put yourself at risk.

[Grateful Dead]

@infinitenrgyYeah that’s normal or at least for me too. I try to become aware of my thoughts and fears and then let them go. But when I can’t for what ever reason anymore then I contemplate. 

3 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Why put yourself in a situation where you fear? Listen to your instincts. Follow your feelings. You can realize without needing to put yourself at risk.

For me psychedelic experiences are a lot about facing my fears tbh 

[Moksha]

Facing your fears is good. Fear is the ego invoker. Presence is the mind killer.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Moksha

[infinitenrgy]

@acidgoofy I really like the idea that psychedelic experiences are about facing my fears, I'm gonna go into my next trip with those intentions. Thanks man 

[Girzo]

5 hours ago, infinitenrgy said:

Each time I get to this point it scares me less and is getting easier to ease into each trip. I’m just wondering if all I need to do now is work on letting go and surrendering into that? Or is there more to the fear I’m experiencing when I get this deep? 

I am always scared right before the breakthrough. I don't know if it's the best solution, but I just force through it. I ignore being afraid, I treat it as the price to pay for the experience. No music, no fighting, letting the fear just be. It passes rather quickly.

[infinitenrgy]

@Girzo I haven't had a breakthrough yet so when I am in that moment and terrified it is very hard to believe its a good price to pay because I don't know what I am about to get lol. It makes me change my mind that breaking through is even something I want to do and the main thing on my mind when this is happening is that I'm about to die. The first couple times I got close I curled up in bed like a baby scared but my last trip I knew what was going on and remained relaxed even though my heart was pounding. I believe you are right though, if I didn't change my mind on breaking through and tried to keep pushing through it then it would probably pass quickly and be amazing.  

[Nahm]

@infinitenrgy

Just a difference perspective for consideration....

If you haven’t directly experienced dying or death, it can’t transparently be said you’re afraid of dying or death. You might then say you’re afraid of the unknown, but if you haven’t actually experienced the unknown, that doesn’t hold water either. You might then consider it’s not really dying or the unknown which is feared, but really, how you’ll feel in a future experience (the trip / breakthrough). This brings you full circle back to feeling being paramount. Feeling will never be in a future, but you are worrying as if it could. The good news is how you feel is up to you, and you can inspect thoughts which don’t feel good, and inspection naturally dispels beliefs, resulting in equanimity. Mental & emotional equanimity  for a trip is like taking a cross country trip in a limo vs on a thirty year old unicycle. 

You haven’t actually directly experienced ego, death, ego death, or breakthrough. So it is not possible that these are the cause of the fear. You have directly experienced the thoughts; ego, death, ego death, and breakthrough. These thoughts have been focused on repeatedly and have become beliefs. Let these thoughts go via the daily practices of body awareness and grounding. It is a more enjoyable & lasting alternative to ‘fighting through’ or ‘pushing through’ the breakthrough. (Which hasn’t worked and sucks to experience really). In oodles of feeling, when these same old thoughts arise, they are experienced as if they are a mile away and moving in slow motion. They don’t hold any power to disturb your grounded equanimity. 

 

Most subtly speaking, making breakthrough a goal is the creating of the very resistance to the allowing of the breakthrough desired. The breaking-through is actually a letting go of the thoughts which do not feel good to you, but those thoughts have seemed to hijack feeling, and so those thoughts are said to be fear. But the so called fear is actually the feeling response to those thoughts. That which these thoughts do not resonate with is the very no thing ‘trying’ to break through to you as well.  

When a thought doesn’t resonate, inspect it. Scrutinize it’s validity, it’s actuality. Run it through the filter of: direct experience, or a thought about what is not and has not been directly experienced. Label those no-actual-direct-experience thoughts monkey mind, as to recognize they have no ground in what is actual. (You are not a monkey). Run experience ‘itself’ through the filter of: thought, perception, and feeling. In bringing about this clarity day to day, your trips will be a completely different, enjoyable, smooth, fun and fascinating experiences. No one else is involved in your trip, interpretation is wholly up to you, and is best on a foundation of clarity, or, having done the inspecting. Addressing (confronting really) this “monkey mind” on 4g’s is like inspecting a fire up close you’ve been throwing gas on for years. Addressing this with some plain old homeostatic inspection, and maybe a pen & paper, is really an effortless nature of self-curiosity & self-understanding. The trips stand to then reveal the true nature of your everyday homeostasis, which could rightfully be said to be the very pinnacle, or holy grail, or breakthrough which is sought. 

Going into a trip with expectation (speaking only from direct experience here) paradoxically is the creating of the resistance to the breakthrough. It is bringing your conditions on a trip to the unconditional. Going into a trip - just for the experience right now of the trip - then you are oriented to allowing whatever unfolds and receiving whatever insight & wisdom arises, and dare I say...you’ll breakthrough. Bring love, appreciation and presence to the trips, and you will be met ten fold in kind.

Be careful not to feed thoughts that this implies you should already be ‘there’ in regard to seeing through the fear. It’s a process, a self exploration. This is just an offering of a perspective. Let me know if there is anything I’ve said that I can clarify & trip Well my friend. ? 

[SpiritualAwakening]

You're afraid of your own thoughts.

[Forestluv]

Sometimes setting an intention can be helpful. This can give us clarity about our orientation. We could set an intention of "tonight I want to breakthrough". Yet to me, that has a yucky vibe to it because it suggests a breakdown precedes a breakthrough. 

I've had many uncomfortable trips in the "sub-ego death zone". Much of it was due to fear of the unknown. My body didn't know what was safe and what was unsafe. It went into fight or flight, holding on because who tf knows what would happen if I don't have a sense of presence here and now. I could go crazy and do all sorts of stupid shit. What if I harmed someone? My mind and body was trying to protect itself and me - and that is a loving thing for a mind and body to do. If the mind and body communicate "don't go there", I would be mindful about how much resistance is present and if there is a sense of forcing the mind-body to do something before it's ready. 

Tonight during my breath session, my intention was to flow. To have a flow state of consciousness with whatever was arising. That sounds much more appealing than "struggle and breakthrough". Once in the zone, there were things happening in my mind and body I didn't like. Yet that was all part of the Flow. It was all part of the Music. And I experienced a few new breathing rhythms and energetics. . . If you haven't done so, you might want to try Breathwork. It's a great way to train the body to relax into the parasympathetic nervous system into flow states. And yes, one can reach trans-egoic states of consciousness through breathing. 

6 hours ago, infinitenrgy said:

It was like I had a choice in that moment to keep experiencing that and see what happens or run into my room and distract myself with watching plant earth instead.

One of my most profound trips was watching planet earth. A deep sense of unity with nature arose. There was a segment on penguins and I *got it*. There was such deep love and understanding for these penguins. I totally got why someone would spend years of their life in the arctic observing and filming these miraculous creatures. It was like I was there with them. It was like I was a penguin. There was no separation between "me" and a "penguin". Voila! A "breakthrough"!

One needn't journey to some astral plane (although that can be awesome). Trans-egoic states arise Here and Now - whether that is a completely relaxed mind-body merging with an infinite starry sky or a scared mind-body watching planet earth. Yet it's easier to realize when the mind-body is relaxed than it is when the mind-body is pumping out stress hormones. 

[peanutspathtotruth]

@Nahm @Forestluv You two always give the kindest, most practical advice  Very inspiring! 

@Forestluv When you talk about Breathwork, do you refer to shamanic breathing/holotropic Breathwork? 

[BipolarGrowth]

What doses are you doing? It could be possible that doing a higher dose would force you to only have one choice: surrender. This could backfire though. 
 

Terror is an important aspect of psychedelic trips imo. It isn’t pleasant in some ways when you experience it of course, but it is providing you with a valuable experience of the potential of consciousness nonetheless. Maybe it’s time to try a different psychedelic too. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[Carl-Richard]

Your mind will sometimes throw you excuses for not letting go. Try to identify those and work to fix them.

[Loving Radiance]

12 hours ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

When you talk about Breathwork, do you refer to shamanic breathing/holotropic Breathwork?

Yes.

 

13 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Tonight during my breath session, my intention was to flow. To have a flow state of consciousness with whatever was arising. That sounds much more appealing than "struggle and breakthrough". Once in the zone, there were things happening in my mind and body I didn't like. Yet that was all part of the Flow. It was all part of the Music. And I experienced a few new breathing rhythms and energetics. . . If you haven't done so, you might want to try Breathwork. It's a great way to train the body to relax into the parasympathetic nervous system into flow states.

How do you manage not good feeling energy in the body that "comes up" through breathwork?

[Batman]

Try concentrating on breathing deeply and let go.. join the Infinite breath.

[Grateful Dead]

@Nahm@ForestluvThis is so helpful! Thank you guys ?

Maybe you two should come together and write about about stuff like that

[infinitenrgy]

@Nahm  First off this response is very advanced and wisdom packed that it has given me a lot of learning to do as well as a lot to think about. I haven’t had time this week to get started but I need to read about those words and meditations that you linked me to bc I haven’t done much of that at all and I’m lacking the experience with it that I need to fully understand everything you are saying. 

On 1/12/2021 at 6:39 PM, Nahm said:

 

You might then consider it’s not really dying or the unknown which is feared, but really, how you’ll feel in a future experience (the trip / breakthrough). This brings you full circle back to feeling being paramount. Feeling will never be in a future, but you are worrying as if it could. 

If you could touch more on this feeling never being in the future that would be awesome because I am a bit confused by that. 

 

On 1/12/2021 at 6:39 PM, Nahm said:

@infinitenrgy

Bring love, appreciation and presence to the trips, and you will be met ten fold in kind. 

I really like the idea of bringing this to the trip because I feel like normally I go to the trip for that. I’ve been wanting the trips to being that to me. Very helpful, thank you so much.

[infinitenrgy]

@Forestluv I really like what you said and I will have to consider doing some breathe work. I haven’t tried it yet bc when I first researched it, it didn’t look very appealing to do at all but I’m willing to work with that knowing it’s a practice that could have some real benefits for me. 

As for what you’ve said about the penguins, I feel like I’ve come close to a similar breakthrough with the same scenario you described except when I start to get close and feel strange things start to happen, I notice and then the fear kicks in. I love the penguins but my ego doesn’t want me to become them lol. I guess I’m shying away from giving them complete love in this scenario. 

Could you touch more on what you said about not needing to journey to some astral plane? What does this mean exactly? I’ve yet to have a experience where I’m taken out of the room I’m in through my mind, or having out of body experiences. It seems like I’m very attached to my body and that’s definitely one of the things that starts to freak me out the most is when I feel like I could let my body go, I no longer want to do it. Does this mean you could have a breakthrough while still remaining in the same room and still being in your body? Every time for me it feels as though my body is starting to disappear, usually from my feet going up to my head. Every time it reaches the point of my legs it’s too real for me and I shy away from letting go and surrendering and my heart starts pounding. At the same time things will happen like the top of my tv seems to start fading away, but I tend to get scared of that in the moment even though Ive done plenty of learning about what that experience is suggesting to me. It’s like when I get close to realizing truth I don’t actually want it to be true anymore bc it’s terrifying lol. 

Thank you so much for your response and help I really appreciate it.