Where is the conscious discussion in this section?

[Nahm]

@Scholar

I believe I feel where you’re coming from. I was way into politics in my thirties. I even served in a small local volunteer role for a while, chamber member, etc, you know. Hung with some Mayors, saw some different perspectives, nothing ‘big’, very grass roots. After a while it seemed like a pretty clear ‘garbage in garbage out’ scene. I’m not sayin I’m above it at all, but I saw through it in a way. 

I do sometimes wonder who, as in which party will be the first to wake up and turn the other cheek, choosing absorption for the absolute win. I imagine a Biden asking a Trump how he got so dialed into law of attraction people will go against their own conscience following him, and a Trump who asks a Biden how we can unify in accordance with it.

I imagine a debate rooted in competitive inclusion. Could you even imagine that?

“You know, we’ve seen the light recently on this whole gun thing. Folks, we now get it, it’s important to you and we’re making it important to us. We’re also with you on making sure you kids are safe, and we wanna regulate this with you, not against you.” 

”Uhhhh...ok...ok...alright, alright....(for the win....) we...uh...we....we... we love & embrace minorities now! Watcha got on that!”.

? 

? 

“...?”

(This is not to bash a section or anything, I just found cheeseburgers made me lethargic after awhile.) 

[Ryan R]

@Scholar

If you introspect do you not find it intellectually lazy, maybe even intellectually dishonest, to criticize by posting as you have, yet offering no attempt at higher consciousness content for exploration? Let's play the game and begin to give it a shot shall we...

1. I find it fascinating that there appear to be people on this forum who believe themselves engaged in enlightenment and Self-actualization work, the work of raising seemingly personal consciousness, yet they support trump. It may simply be where they are at on the spiral, in ego development, etc., but at this point they have had 4-5 years of trumpism to contemplate, see through, and transcend. Do you think these folks started so low that trumpist ideology appeared/appears elevated? Why are they so stuck? What would the practical drive to elevate consciousness even look like to Americans experiencing it from the "purple" or "red" worldview that would hold trumpism as a component of elevated understanding and uplifting for consciousness? How can we support their development so they can get past this level of (un)consciousness that finds the politics of trump appealing?

2. I am not very political. I wear no badge and carry no baggage for any party or ideology.  I do not define myself as progressive, but I supported Bernie until the fruitlessness of doing so and the necessity of voting Hillary then Joe became apparent. I love trump unconditionally, but I don't really like much of what he says and does, nor would I hire him to clean toilets much less be POTUS. He is almost every bit the disaster I thought he would be, except he didn't start a huge war and get multitudes of people killed... or did he afterall, hmm? The scenario I foresaw involved nuclear weapons and foreign nations instead of small arms, IEDs, and Americans bathed in the blood of their countrymen. Anyhow, not even trump is all bad in a big picture sense, so what constructive elements can we distill from his having been in power?

Off the top of my head...
He has certainly been a disrupter, and maybe that is a positive thing only currently manifesting negatively? Is this the end of our 2 party politics and would that be beneficial, etc?

...I yield the floor.

[No Self]

4 hours ago, Ryan R said:

1. I find it fascinating that there appear to be people on this forum who believe themselves engaged in enlightenment and Self-actualization work, the work of raising seemingly personal consciousness, yet they support trump.

The most dangerous thing is black-and-white logic where by Trump=bad, me=good. You'll notice this is just a polar opposite of the Trump cultists' outlook that Trump=good, Democrats=bad, equally devoid of nuance or openness to opposing perspectives. If we are to be enlightened in any sense, this is not workable.

People can have many different reasons for voting. They may be single-issue voters (pro/anti guns, abortion, environment, etc.), they may be conforming to the culture that surrounds them, or they may have some other unique outlook.

The same way that there have been hundreds of documentaries telling the story of WWII, there could be hundreds of perspectives of looking at this presidency. The word 'Trump' essentially has no meaning, yet it triggers people as if it did.

I'm a single-issue voter, as I think the environment is an issue that is literally billions of times more important than anything else in politics. It also represents serving the wellbeing of all beings on the planet. As such, I'll quietly admit that Trump is an absolute scumbag from this perspective. However, I will always go out of my way to seek common ground with the opponent - such as opposing the cancel culture, 'woke' bullshit, fiscal irresponsibility, aggressive identity politics and other failures of the left - in the hope of coming together to create a saner world.

[Ryan R]

5 hours ago, No Self said:

The most dangerous thing is black-and-white logic where by Trump=bad, me=good. You'll notice this is just a polar opposite of the Trump cultists' outlook that Trump=good, Democrats=bad, equally devoid of nuance or openness to opposing perspectives. If we are to be enlightened in any sense, this is not workable.

People can have many different reasons for voting. They may be single-issue voters (pro/anti guns, abortion, environment, etc.), they may be conforming to the culture that surrounds them, or they may have some other unique outlook.

The same way that there have been hundreds of documentaries telling the story of WWII, there could be hundreds of perspectives of looking at this presidency. The word 'Trump' essentially has no meaning, yet it triggers people as if it did.

I'm a single-issue voter, as I think the environment is an issue that is literally billions of times more important than anything else in politics. It also represents serving the wellbeing of all beings on the planet. As such, I'll quietly admit that Trump is an absolute scumbag from this perspective. However, I will always go out of my way to seek common ground with the opponent - such as opposing the cancel culture, 'woke' bullshit, fiscal irresponsibility, aggressive identity politics and other failures of the left - in the hope of coming together to create a saner world.

Yes, there are a lot more than only hundreds of perspectives and no words have any meaning except that which we give them. Trump himself is largely responsible for giving his name this "triggering" ability that often inspires offended hatered or devoted defensive love. To brand and market his name, the persona, and all that accompanies it in such a powerful way is his greatest accomplishment as a demagogue/politician and his greatest failing as the so-called leader of the free world and POTUS. What makes his demagoguery so impressive is that he has won the mob (traditionally the "wealthy elite" opposed) as a generational wealthy elite celebrity famous for being a famous multi-billionaire.

I well agree with the fundamental subtext of what you are saying about seeking common ground, open-mindedness, and shunning black and white thinking, yet being a single issue voter is the height of lacking or caring for nuanced understanding and action in politics. No offense, and if ever I was to be a single issue voter, "the environment" is the one hill I would gladly die on.... Say trump was exactly as he is, but for the last year he had completely reversed course on his environmental policy and was actively pushing, hard - with multiple executive orders, the Green New Deal. Would he have won your vote? Would you be an outspoken advocate for him and/or his lies? Would you take up arms for him?

Also, correct me if I am misunderstanding, you are saying there are highly developed high consciousness people present here who support trump because of single issues, peer pressure, or "unique outlooks"? I suspect this just isn't so, but if it is I do hope they chime in because I am very curious to learn of some of these unique outlooks!

I'm getting the feeling that many here feel enlightened humans can't or shouldn't have political stances or strong opinions about much of anything. It's not often said but in my observation and experience enlightened human beings have no can'ts or shouldn'ts whatsoever. They can truly freely do anything they want. It's just that what they want is normally aligned with, affirming, and reflecting Life, Love, Truth, and Goodness. Anything is possible though, even supporting trumpism, but it is highly unlikely because from the perspective of Consciousness expressing through knowing human cognition, trump and his movement are very out of alignment, exceedingly low consciousness, and largely toxic. This only makes them relatively bad of course, but that's bad enough, lol.

[No Self]

3 minutes ago, Ryan R said:

Say trump was exactly as he is, but for the last year he had completely reversed course on his environmental policy and was actively pushing, hard - with multiple executive orders, the Green New Deal. Would he have won your vote? Would you be an outspoken advocate for him and/or his lies? Would you take up arms for him?

This is a great question and one I've pondered myself. And, yes, I think I would vote for him (aside from not being from the US!). Why would I care if he was unfaithful to his wife if his actions were saving entire rainforests? Would I care if he is a gutter-mouth if he brought the corruption of the fossil fuel lobby to its knees? Not really; he would merely be a weapon in a legitimate battle. That's the same reason some people support him even though they know he is a douchebag.

 

Would I support lies? This depends on the circumstances. During Nazi Germany, there were people who secretly kept Jewish people safe from execution and they lied to the authorities. Considering all politicians lie anyway, I'd have an open mind to supporting one with a proper green agenda.

Taking up arms? Well, no. And we should not assume that 74 million people are taking up arms, or even supportive of what is happening. They merely have strong grievances with the Democrats so side with the other option.

11 minutes ago, Ryan R said:

I suspect this just isn't so, but if it is I do hope they chime in because I am very curious to learn of some of these unique outlooks!

Just to give an example, some might feel that there's a need for radical change, and Trump represented a bull in a china shop (quite literally given his stirring up of issues with China's uncapped dominance). It might be a kind of 'accelerationism'; bringing about major change by throwing a grenade into the old system. Or maybe some of them just believed that a businessman would prevent the escalation of national debts, as he said he would. These are just some examples. Why people stood by him even after it became clear he was a conman is another question entirely; faux news ecosystems probably have a lot to do with it.

16 minutes ago, Ryan R said:

being a single issue voter is the height of lacking or caring for nuanced understanding and action in politics. No offense

No offense taken, and I will gladly change course if a compelling argument comes along.

Let me put it this way. I live in Australia. Indigenous people lived here for up to 60,000 years doing minimal damage and living as one with nature. European settlers have bulldozed most of the country to oblivion (as with the rest of the world) in a matter of a couple of centuries, and we are one of the worst countries for mass extinctions of animals. So that's what happens when the environment is not respected. It's about our own survival, but also compassion, respect, decency and humanity. I can't think of a more important cause than this, and the remainder of society, including its economic systems, should be shaped around it. Gun debates, etc., fade into oblivion when there's such a huge elephant in the room. That's my current political perspective and I try and live by it.