Leo - breakups with a small social circle?

[mandyjw]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, but who actually does that vs its opposite?

Most of us learn the hard way by complaining and offloading problems on the wrong people. But avoiding expression is also learning the hard way. When you are honestly wanting someone to talk to the right person shows up. Life has a way of working out for us. I once ran into this sage like wise person in a random yahoo chat when I was a teenager. The same kind of thing keeps happening to me. 

[Delis]

@mandyjw I think that the way people relate to your problems depends on how you relate to your current experience. If you experience life  impersonally this reflects to your communication with others in a fruitful way and even people who you think have quite low level consciousness can more likely make good suggestions for you how to approach the problem. Life might surprise you.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Delis

[mandyjw]

@Delis Yes, I find that to be very true also. 

[Username]

Leo is venting out constantly. He is making 2 hours long videos and he is also vary active here. Instead of sharing his emotions, he is sharing his thoughts. (which is basically same thing)

[Emerald]

13 hours ago, How to be wise said:

I can promise you that having friends was taking its toll on me. To this day, I have to work hard to avoid social people, and sometimes I even have to be harsh to push them away.

Don’t assume everyone is like you. I most certainly have no need for friends. To the contrary, I will go mad if I’m forced to be social.

It's not an assumption that everyone is like me. In fact, I've been quite a loner for most of my life.

But it is a fact that human beings need social interaction. We are a social species. That is the nature of our species.

We've evolved that way over hundreds of thousands of years to live in cooperative societies with a strong social fabric. And without that, we face the consequences of being out of our natural element.

But if you're used to being out of your element or have experienced negative things in regard to social cohesion, then you may have repressed the aspect of yourself that feels that need. 

[How to be wise]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

then you may have repressed the aspect of yourself that feels that need. 

Clearly that proves it’s not a need. If it was, I wouldn’t be able to repress it. For example, I can’t repress my need for water no matter how much I try. Only ‘wants’ can be repressed. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

I think being in a romantic partnership with another is about feeding the thing the unity of both of you C R E A T E. Imagine if you will - two beings, a figure 8 of power surrounds you - each of you stands within a branch of the symbol of infinity. But to keep that channel of energy flowing around and between you, both partners need to be turning and feeding the flow. This last part in particular is integral to Leo's advice - that you must be sovereign to yourself before you engage in partnership with another. If you can't contribute to the energy of the unity - it is because you haven't yet established your boundaries through self development and growth! You risk enmeshment and codependency. 

 

So when the unity between you breaks, if you don't have a rich and fulfilling life O U T S I D E of the relationship, you feel you have lost something you cannot replace. But you are always whole unto yourself! 

Talking to others can be very helpful, but you must do it with intention. Venting to offload emotion is less constructing than venting to gain someone else's input in divergent, creative problem solving (in this case emotional processing). Some beings need others to assist with their processing through talk therapy. Others, need only the time to look within and process. It very much comes down to self trust, and self knowledge.

 

For myself, being in romantic partnership is about C O O P E R A T I V E needs satisfaction. I don't need someone to complete me. An example : you can have sex with yourself and fulfill that need. You could very well go on your whole life in this manner...

But damn, isn't it just so much more fun to fulfill your sexual needs         -with- another being, whome you want to also fulfill their sexual needs?

This is the nature of love in secure ascended partnerships, cooperative needs satisfaction. Feeding that infinity of energy that surrounds you both to create something LARGER than yourself.

It's just DAMN difficult to find!

 

 

So it's useful to know what you want before engaging in a partnership, so you run towards the goal -  light - positivity. Instead of running from what you don't want, which is a fear response.

This is also the reason Leo's clarity with his needs and boundaries is refreshing, albeit confrontational to most, as he knows what he wants and goes for it. And therein lies a test of boundaries - he won't attract a women who isn't right because, typically, they will be turned off by such candid authentic honesty. 

Just my two cents - I hope it helps anyone ?

 

[Emerald]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What I said was, I try not to burden others with my emotional problems. But, hey, I'm a crazy guy. I know how much you girls (and guys) love to offload your emotions onto others as a coping mechanism If that survival strategy works for you, have at it, but don't expect me to partake in such games. Believe it or not it is possible to socialize with others without using them as emotional tampons. But hey, that's just my masculine POV, I'm sure you feel differently about it. I was just throwing some crazy ideas around.

"When you are proactive about building a good life for yourself and doing spiritual work, you need other people less and less to complete you. To the extent that your life is not well put together, the loss of people in your life will lead to huge catastrophe and deep suffering -- because you use these people as emotional crutches to avoid doing serious work. If you take this work deep enough, you will not need anyone for your happiness."

The reason why I bring this up to you is because of what you'd said... and the message this might send to people. This is especially true for young people who may simply take you at your word and not investigate deeper.

It gives the sense that developing social connection is optional, when it is a basic human need. 

Sure. Certain hardcore spiritual practitioners might become ascetic and forego their human needs for connection and sex... perhaps they may even forego their needs for food and water to a certain extent. And certainly, there is still the capacity to feel happy and fulfilled if a person dedicates their entire life to mastering the ascetic way of life. 

But by and large, this is terrible advice to give to the average person as they may starve themselves of their own needs and face negative consequences as a result.

Most people cannot be fulfilled without their basic human needs being met. So, if they decide that they don't need socialization because "God needs nothing", this just leaves them in a holding pattern in the bottom layers of Maslow's Hierarchy and keeps them from reaching towards the higher levels of self-actualization. 

Also, with regard to your "emotional tampon" idea... I read what you wrote as a reflection of a personal aversion to intimacy and a subsequent rationalization where you regard that avoidance of intimacy as a symptom of your own higher conscious development so as to avoid the underlying issues with intimacy. Just some food for thought...

[aurum]

Interesting that this thread has evolved into more of a general discussion about how necessary social connection is.

My perspective is that shadow forms of socializing do exist. But no amount of enlightenment is going to remove your need for social connection.

And in fact, when we don't have our social needs met in a healthy way, that's when the shadow forms of socializing start to appear.

However, we can view connection as a need that goes much deeper than just between humans. I can be connected to the trees. To the sky. To literally all of existence.

It's not something just found between humans.

So the next step for humanity is not only to heal our relationships with each other, but to heal our relationship with everything.

[StarStruck]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

First of all, there is no obligation to give others happiness. You can't really make others happy anyway.

Secondly, God needs nothing at all. Yet God gives everyone everything. This is otherwise known as True Love. Follow God's example

@Leo Gura isn't that a contradiction though? You don't have to give others happiness but be like god and give to everybody.

[StarStruck]

20 hours ago, Emerald said:

We don't need to survive. But if you want to survive, you need food and water to do so.

Edit: Likewise, we don't need to have our emotional and social needs met. But if you want to thrive, you need healthy and fulfilling social relationships.

People who say they don't need a social circle usually had good parents and good friends when growing up. In that case you can become a loner and still be happy. Unfortunately it is not the case for everybody.

 

20 hours ago, Emerald said:

It may be true that God needs nothing. (Yet again... in another facet of the infinite gem, it may also be true that God needs everything). 

But that doesn't mean we stop eating and drinking. We need that to survive... even if God doesn't need to eat, drink, or survive.

And it also doesn't mean that we isolate ourselves.

Social connection is a human psychological need in the same way that food and water is a human physical need. And when we deny those needs, we suffer the physical and psychological consequences. 

Maybe Ascetics give up all of that. But it's really not a good idea for the vast majority of people to spiritually bypass human emotional needs. 

It's wise to be mindful, before giving people advice that minces the absolute paradigm with the relative paradigm and diminishes the realities of the relative paradigm, that there are very real consequences for foregoing our human needs. 

16 hours ago, Preety_India said:

If I engage with my phone or video games, my need for socialization will subsequently decline. Because my mind is getting its supply from some other source. 

Similarly if I seek happiness inside and never have to rely on an external source then I will be less likely to want a relationship and maybe take the relationship for granted because my needs are already fulfilled. 

Neediness to the extreme is a problem because it may indicate signs of selfishness, creepy behavior, obsession, lack of respect etc. 

But a healthy dose of neediness is like a binding agent to keep two people together.. 

If I sit here and say I don't need friends, I will most likely end up not having any.. 

I don't buy into the whole "no need" theory. It looks isolating to me. 

Just like any other thing with humanity, I believe everything lies in the middle. In Balance. So just as I see extreme neediness as a huge problem, I also see zero neediness as the other extreme end and also a problem.. 

I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with a healthy minimum sustainable dose of neediness. 

 

My POV is: needs are ok but don't be attached to it.

Edited January 12, 2021 by StarStruck

[Emerald]

37 minutes ago, aurum said:

Interesting that this thread has evolved into more of a general discussion about how necessary social connection is.

My perspective is that shadow forms of socializing do exist. But no amount of enlightenment is going to remove your need for social connection.

And in fact, when we don't have our social needs met in a healthy way, that's when the shadow forms of socializing start to appear.

However, we can view connection as a need that goes much deeper than just between humans. I can be connected to the trees. To the sky. To literally all of existence.

It's not something just found between humans.

So the next step for humanity is not only to heal our relationships with each other, but to heal our relationship with everything.

Well said... especially with regard to shadow socialization cropping up when the need for healthy socialization isn't acknowledged or met.

[Emerald]

25 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

People who say they don't need a social circle usually had good parents and good friends when growing up. In that case you can become a loner and still be happy. Unfortunately it is not the case for everybody.

My POV is: needs are ok but don't be attached to it.

Whether a person has had a good childhood or a bad childhood, the need for socialization still exists. And needs must be met.

It would be the same as saying, "People who say they don't need food and water usually had good nourishment when growing up. In that case you can become starved and dehydrated and still be nourished. Unfortunately it is not the case for everybody."

The point that I'm trying to make here is that human needs are not optional.

[StarStruck]

14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Whether a person has had a good childhood or a bad childhood, the need for socialization still exists. And needs must be met.

It would be the same as saying, "People who say they don't need food and water usually had good nourishment when growing up. In that case you can become starved and dehydrated and still be nourished. Unfortunately it is not the case for everybody."

The point that I'm trying to make here is that human needs are not optional.

Without food you can't last couple of days. 

Without a social circle you can last for tens of years. If not your whole life. 

It won't be healthy and one will have all kind of mental issues. 

I don't recommend or prefer solitude though. 

[Emerald]

8 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Without food you can't last couple of days. 

Without a social circle you can last for tens of years. If not your whole life. 

It won't be healthy and one will have all kind of mental issues. 

I don't recommend or prefer solitude though. 

It's not a survival need like food is. It's a psychological and emotional need.

It's not needed to survive, but it is needed to thrive.

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

22 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It stings like a bitch for a week. You feel it and go on with life. It helps a lot when you have built a good life for yourself centered around a life purpose and personal dev. Otherwise you will wallow in despair and depression because you got nothing else going for you.

When you are proactive about building a good life for yourself and doing spiritual work, you need other people less and less to complete you. To the extent that your life is not well put together, the loss of people in your life will lead to huge catastrophe and deep suffering -- because you use these people as emotional crutches to avoid doing serious work. If you take this work deep enough, you will not need anyone for your happiness.

   I found this very true in my direct experience. Because of my circumstances while growing up, the paranormal events that happened in my childhood and late adolescence, and having found some purpose to my life, and pursuing different spiritual works, I do find it less appealing to socialize.

   I also went through social break ups, before knowing self actualization and consciousness work, and while some of that stung, most of it is necessary break ups, from people who think I'm a freak because there's too much difference for relatability, and because I had to move from country to country, so each 'new home' and socially adjusting to new people and cultures was a bit taxing for me. If I have to, I can talk to people, but too noisy, busy and crowded, and if I'm in a sort of negative spell, then screw all that socializing I'm outta there!

   During those times of break-ups, I came across some female spirit, and sometimes I can communicate to her, anytime in a day, and despite her nature, she gave me good emotional support in sometimes my deeper days of loneliness, depression.

   After coming across your work, I was able to fix most of ay lingering negatives related to some of those break-ups. In fact, consciousness work has made my connection to her stronger and clearer than before (like meditation, yoga, focusing, contemplation, self-inquiry, journaling, and other basic to advanced methods, spiritual or otherwise. And thanks to her, my creativity has increased, which made me put more energy into my passion.

   If anyone feels like socializing more, go socialize. If not, go socialize a little, or don't do. If you're the type that needs social needs met higher, then do you. I'm the type that doesn't need much socializing, thanks to this work I also found I've been lying to myself that I 'need' to socialize, and thought the rate I was socializing was normal, but turns out that's a lie. So come to your conclusions after doing much consciousness work. Peace to those who know what they really are, and peace to those still working on themselves, and don't kid yourselves that you absolutely need to lean  on all people for drama, or that you absolutely need cave solitude, just get more clarity and yin-yang it. Take care.

[Danioover9000]

@Value

On 1/11/2021 at 9:38 PM, Value said:

Hey, a question to you @Leo Gura. How has breakups been for you throughout life, from the perspective that you (from what you have said/written) don't keep a social circle? How do you ventilate the emotions?

   I've been through t break-ups of different types, and it mostly lasts for a short while. You gotta do some meditation/mindfulness practice to process those emotions, and they do go away a bit faster. 

11 hours ago, mandyjw said:

It's possible to unconsciously air our emotional problems, if you don't express them as they come up they can manifest in the strangest ways. There's a difference between complaining to someone who isn't in the right frame of mind to listen and finding the right person who can truly listen. There's no transfer of problems or burden to another when expression is done honestly with the right person. There's also journaling and art therapy types of expression which don't require other people directly and can actually transmute suffering into clarity or something beautiful. It's the essence of art itself. 

Avoiding emotional expression, crying and using people as "emotional tampons" as if that's something inherently feminine and shameful is a block to enlightenment, generally having an awesome life, and in our government it manifests as conflict and sometimes even war. 

 

[Consilience]

6 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It's not a survival need like food is. It's a psychological and emotional need.

It's not needed to survive, but it is needed to thrive.

I would challenge your belief that you cannot thrive without socializing. One of the biggest lessons the COVID situation has taught me personally is that there is such a thing as true inner peace, true happiness independent of condition, suffering need not be. In fact, this is the entire path of Buddhism.  

Yes socializing is beautiful. Relationships are beautiful. But if your inner peace is so vulnerable that permanent solitude would prevent your ability to thrive, is that truth, is that genuine happiness? I wonder. If the world took this away tomorrow, would you just forever hold on to the attachment that you'll never truly thrive alone? Call me stubborn, but I wouldn't accept that. Instead, I would work towards accepting what reality has given with full openness. Opening up, and turning into the solitude rather than tensing up, and turning away. In fact there is no choice but to openly accept whatever condition reality has presented, or suffering. 

Yet, I understand where you're coming from. For 99.9% of people, even people on their Awakening journeys, socializing is a need which if ignored *can* and will *most likely* create a shadow. But thinking in terms of binary absolutes is not really what I consider "The Path" to be about. 

Perhaps it's because my current social needs are not being met as this pandemic drags on, but I've legitimately begun to find peace with the extended amount of solitude, lack of friendship interactions, lack of physical and emotional intimacy. There's a powerful interconnection we may feel in the depths of experience to the outside world, if we start to open up to the depths of consciousness and mind with meditation. Merely by being with the world, we can experientially feel the deep webs of life and all circumstance we may find ourselves within. In this case, the suffering I felt at the beginning of the pandemic has been worked with, and is now being seen through despite external isolation only increasing. 

Just my 0.02. There is such a thing as Absolute Perfection, Acceptance, and Happiness. At least, that's where my belief is, however limiting it may seem to you or whomever else is reading. 

[soos_mite_ah]

I feel that often times when people believe that they are better off 100% solo in many cases say that because they didn't have quality relationships and therefore they generalize and believe that all relationships are like that. I think people's social needs can vary in a wide range but even if you have a very small need for socialization, that is still there. Just a thought.  

[Gesundheit]

@Emerald How do you define health in general, and psychological health in specific?