Is investing in Crypto just a get rich quick scheme?

[vinc3nc]

On 18. 1. 2021 at 6:24 AM, 7thLetter said:

@vinc3nc Lol so cringe.

"Yeah I listened to some random experts on youtube and they're always right and I invested since 2017 im an expert too."

If you've been in the market since 2017 then you would be smart enough to realize what happened in 2017-2018. Everyone was calling $100K BTC in 2017, even all the "experts" that you probably heard of. It's all hype. This market is heavily manipulated.

I didn't even apply TA. TA isn't effective in manipulated markets.

Your tone sounds a bit angry, perhaps you're in denial?

Not sure what sounded angry from my post, but it clearly offended your ego because I said you had no clue about TA.

Not saying I'm an expert - otherwise I wouldn't be listening to other people and telling you what they say. I've just learned a few things from the last 3 years, especially from observation alone.

You obviously don't understand the difference between 2017 and today. In 2016/2017's bull run BTC went up almost 2000%. From 1k - after it broke ATH - to 20k. In December 2020, after it had broken 20k, it went up a bit more than 100% (around 42k).

So, if you think that this is the same situation as in 2017, then I will say again that you have no clue what you're talking about. Because you can't compare 100% increase to 2000% increase. Not saying it will go up 2000% again, but 100k or 200k BTC wouldn't be a surprise later in this year.

Edited January 19, 2021 by vinc3nc

[Leo Gura]

The mental energy you guys are wasting on this could have been invested in actually making yourself a massive value provider.

Be ware of distractions if you truly care about becoming wealthy.

People who invest in crypto are like vultures fighting for scraps of road-kill while while the lion goes on to hunt the real game.

[UDT]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

People who invest in crypto are like vultures fighting for scraps of road-kill while while the lion goes on to hunt the real game.

Value first!

Leo since youre comback is looming can you make something more about providing value and how to

[Lyubov]

I hope my bitcoin burials in here have at least struck a chord in some. I'll feel better knowing I at least got a few people out of this before they got burned. Anyways, I'll await the eventual bump of this thread where everyone is freaking out about BTC plummeting to 1/5th of it's bull high. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Lyubov

[Girzo]

31 minutes ago, vinc3nc said:

You obviously don't understand the difference between 2017 and today. In 2016/2017's bull run BTC went up almost 2000%. From 1k - after it broke ATH - to 20k. In December 2020, after it had broken 20k, it went up a bit more than 100% (around 42k).

I am not interested in investing at all, but I think it's foolish to look at growth through the lens of percentage.

The big players who manipulate and push the price up don't have infinte amounts of money, so obviously the higher the base price, the less their sheningans will affect it in terms of percent growth.

I would rather look for who the big players are and how much money they have put to manipulate the market back then and nowadays.

[vinc3nc]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The mental energy you guys are wasting on this could have been invested in actually making yourself a massive value provider.

Be ware of distractions if you truly care about becoming wealthy.

People who invest in crypto are like vultures fighting for scraps of road-kill while while the lion goes on to hunt the real game.

You're right. It is a distraction.

Anyway, I've noticed that you don't properly understand crpyocurrencies and their real potential for transforming the world for the better. Not saying that to offend you or anything, just assuming that you never dug deep into cpypto. You seem to have a great deal of different kinds of knowledge, but I would say you lack one in this department. That's probably the reason why you never invested in crypto in the first place (I just assume that you haven't) and you might also think that you missed the boat on top of that.

There's a lot negativity around the word "crypto" because so many people got burned over the years. There's also a lot of scams out there, etc. A lot of people just stay away from it just for that reason. It's understandable.

And wouldn't you say that things like gambling, poker, trading, etc is a zero-sum game (one wins, one loses), and that investing in appreciating assets on the other hand is a positive-sum game because every "can" win?

Edited January 19, 2021 by vinc3nc

[vinc3nc]

3 minutes ago, Girzo said:

I am not interested in investing at all, but I think it's foolish to look at growth through the lens of percentage.

The big players who manipulate and push the price up don't have infinte amounts of money, so obviously the higher the base price, the less their sheningans will affect it in terms of percent growth.

I would rather look for who the big players are and how much money they have put to manipulate the market back then and nowadays.

The reason it makes it sense to look at growth through the lens of percentage is because it gives you a better idea of how much it can go up the next bull cycle. But you have to understand how market cycles work in the first place. It's logical that BTC will go up less and less in the future (as the price rises), because you'll need way more money to push up the price for the same % gain.

Every market is "manipulated". The more BTC's you have, the easier it is to get more of them. Or in other words the rich get richer over time. You can't get around that. People with weak hands usually get burned. So, eventually 1% (just making that % up) of people will have the majority of BTCs.

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, vinc3nc said:

You seem to have a great deal of different kinds of knowledge, but I would say you lack one in this department. That's probably the reason why you never invested in crypto in the first place (I just assume that you haven't) and you might also think that you missed the boat on top of that.

I was buying BitCoin at $400

[Girzo]

5 minutes ago, vinc3nc said:

Every market is "manipulated". The more BTC's you have, the easier it is to get more of them. Or in other words the rich get richer over time. You can't get around that. People with weak hands usually get burned. So, eventually 1% (just making that % up) of people will have the majority of BTCs.

That's not how it works.  I am no financial guru, but 1% has the majority of bitcoins not because of trading for so long and effectively, but from the fact that they had tens of millions of dollars or more to invest in it. They had it almost from the beginning.

8 minutes ago, vinc3nc said:

The reason it makes it sense to look at growth through the lens of percentage is because it gives you a better idea of how much it can go up the next bull cycle.

How? You only have old data, you could guess that it's impossible to rise as high as it had previously, but how will you determine how low in terms of percent growth it can stop?

[Yali]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I was buying BitCoin at $400

@Leo Gura

you sell it?

Edited January 19, 2021 by Yali

[vinc3nc]

43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I was buying BitCoin at $400

Lol, now that's strange. Btw, stop calling it BitCoin ffs 

 

35 minutes ago, Girzo said:

That's not how it works.  I am no financial guru, but 1% has the majority of bitcoins not because of trading for so long and effectively, but from the fact that they had tens of millions of dollars or more to invest in it. They had it almost from the beginning.

Investing/trading whatever, it doesn't matter. Both allow you to make more. The fact is the more money you have (or BTC), the more patient you can be with market cycles, which allows you to buy low and sell high, and the more you can buy when the market drops in general - buying dips (dollar-cost averaging). Not sure what I said wrong...

39 minutes ago, Girzo said:

How? You only have old data, you could guess that it's impossible to rise as high as it had previously, but how will you determine how low in terms of percent growth it can stop?

Everyone is guessing at the end of the day. No one knows where exactly it will end up in terms of price. But it's better to have some idea of how far up it can go (or down in the bear market), with all those TA tools that you have available, based on past price etc., than to just randomly guess based on your own "knowledge".

[North Sea]

@Leo Gura Van Gogh didn’t provide any value while he was living. Yet he was following his passion and life purpose and always creating. 
 

According to your logic, if van Gogh would have invested in gold (btc speculation equivalent at that time) he would be a value leech, purely because he did not provide value to the world. But everyone always looks at his life story in a sad way saying he should have    had so much more.

My point is its very difficult to be a massive value giver to society because society decides whether you have value or not. Van Gogh followed his life purpose and created a lot of art and tried to sell it but it just did not work out. 

It’s easy to look down on people trying to make money and not looking to provide value from your position. It’s a privileged position to be a massive value giver to society, and to not focus on money because your value will always give enough money in return. Of course you worked hard as fuck but Van Gogh did as well. Did he truly deserve to live poor just because society didn’t see his work as valuable? 

 

[mmKay]

So lets theoretically say i may have around 10k  € saved up, and theoretically the economy may be in a delicate situation, susceptible to inflation and whatnot because of constant money printing by every government for covid measures.

Theoretically, my cash could go down the toilet.  ( yes, I'm being selfish here with the scope of my concern ?) 

Since theoretically crypto and bitcorn ? ain't that reliable yet, and I cant purchase real estate ? with such "low' stash of cash , what would y'all  millionare stonk? experts say would be a big brain move? 

I mean I don't REALLY really care, and if I lose it all and the economy goes to ?then so be it, but since economics is far from my area of expertise, hereby I ask for advice. 

 

Also, am I deluded bout the situation of the world economy? 

 

Edit : ( Theoretically) 

 

My mindset right now is basically what Leo said in the other post. Just keep livin' my life, and if an apocalipse was to come, there is no point in preparing for it anyways ?‍♂️

Edited January 20, 2021 by mmKay

[7thLetter]

12 hours ago, vinc3nc said:

Not sure what sounded angry from my post, but it clearly offended your ego because I said you had no clue about TA.

Not offended but its weird you're assuming I know nothing about TA based on nothing.

12 hours ago, vinc3nc said:

You obviously don't understand the difference between 2017 and today. In 2016/2017's bull run BTC went up almost 2000%. From 1k - after it broke ATH - to 20k. In December 2020, after it had broken 20k, it went up a bit more than 100% (around 42k).

So, if you think that this is the same situation as in 2017, then I will say again that you have no clue what you're talking about. Because you can't compare 100% increase to 2000% increase. Not saying it will go up 2000% again, but 100k or 200k BTC wouldn't be a surprise later in this year.

Are you seriously measuring the percentage increase starting from the break of the 2017 ATH til now? That literally makes no sense.

To find out the 1 year percentage increase you need to take the price from 1 year ago from now and measure the percentage increase from that price to the latest high of the year. Or you can take the earliest low of the year and measure the percentage increase it took to get to the latest high.

With that being said, Bitcoin is up 500% for the year, or up nearly 1000% from the 2020 March lows. Not 100%.

And yes you're right, it was different back then. A 2000%-3000% increase back then was easy, it only took nearly a $300B increase in market cap. Bitcoin's current market cap is now around $700B, a 2-3x increase compared to the previous market cap. And good job, I think in a later post you said you understand this, that it would take more money to see these larger percentage increases as price gets higher and as time goes by.

To take the previous percentage increases and project a price target by assuming it will perform the same way as last time wouldn't make sense. Bitcoin once costed pennies and percentage increases back then were probably over 10000%. Are you going to assume we'll see another 10000% increase?

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by 7thLetter

[LfcCharlie4]

@mmKay Nobody here is allowed to give you financial advice unless they're a registered financial advisor btw, they can only tell you to research about different investments and what they're doing etc. 

 

[vinc3nc]

1 hour ago, 7thLetter said:

Not offended but its weird you're assuming I know nothing about TA based on nothing.

Are you seriously measuring the percentage increase starting from the break of the 2017 ATH til now? That literally makes no sense.

Yes, that's how I think it should be measured.

1 hour ago, 7thLetter said:

To take the previous percentage increases and project a price target by assuming it will perform the same way as last time wouldn't make sense. Bitcoin once costed pennies and percentage increases back then were probably over 10000%. Are you going to assume we'll see another 10000% increase?

 

I already said when I replied to you that 100k or 200k BTC wouldn't be a surprise later in this year. That's a 400-900% increase from previous ath, not 10000%.

Edited January 20, 2021 by vinc3nc

[LfcCharlie4]

Also, I know this thread is focused on BTC but anyone see that 

Ethereum hit all time highs yesterday? Hopefully there's a nice dip to around $1100 before it flies off again! 

 

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, North Sea said:

@Leo Gura Van Gogh didn’t provide any value while he was living. Yet he was following his passion and life purpose and always creating.

Creating art is providing value. Just because your art goes unappreciated is another matter.

That you compare scummy crypto investors with Van Gogh is absurd.

Quote

According to your logic, if van Gogh would have invested in gold (btc speculation equivalent at that time) he would be a value leech, purely because he did not provide value to the world.

No, that's according to your logic.

You are conflating Van Gogh's art with investing in gold. If all Van Gogh did was invest in gold you would have no idea who Van Gogh was.

Quote

My point is its very difficult to be a massive value giver to society because society decides whether you have value or not. Van Gogh followed his life purpose and created a lot of art and tried to sell it but it just did not work out.

It's your responsibility to find a way to provide value which other people appreciate.

There are many starving artists in the world. It is not enough to create art, you must create art which other people are willing to pay for. This makes your job twice as hard. And that's correct.

Here are the levels of making a living:

Level 1: Being a pure value leech

Level 2: Providing value but in a toxic way that harms others

Level 3: Providing value which doesn't harm others but also isn't art

Level 4: Doing art but no one is willing to pay well for it

Level 5: Doing art, providing massive value, and getting paid well for it

Reaching Level 5 requires some serious strategy and effort. It will not land in your lap.

[7thLetter]

51 minutes ago, vinc3nc said:

Yes, that's how I think it should be measured.

Well that's what you think but that's not how it works.

You need a specific timeframe in the equation to measure a percentage increase. 24H, Weekly, Monthly, 1Y, 5Y, for example. If you're going to say the 2017 percentage increase was almost 2000% from $1K then that's measuring the percentage increase for the year. But now you're disregarding the percentage increase between March 2020 $4000 low to the ATH, and only measuring what's beyond the break of the ATH? You're the one here who has no clue about anything.

51 minutes ago, vinc3nc said:

I already said when I replied to you that 100k or 200k BTC wouldn't be a surprise later in this year. That's a 400-900% increase from previous ath, not 10000%.

I didn't say it was a 10000% increase. I'm saying back then 1 Bitcoin was under $1, and if it went from under $1 to over $100 then that's over a 10000% increase. So if we saw a 10000% increase in 2013 or 2014 then with your logic, are you going to say we're going to continue seeing 10000% increases?

"Oh we saw a 2000% increase in 2017 so we're going to see another 2000% increase in 2021, and next cycle too, and the next one."

[Tim123]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I was buying BitCoin at $400

 I bet you sold to early and now despise bitcoin? 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Tim123