How To Get Through A Stage In Spiral Dynamics?

[Anlib]

For example, if I wanna develop myself through orange, do I need to aquire all the success and material things first? It does'nt work to realize that you don't need it and just skip the stage right?:)

I don't understand how the actuall development process works.

 

@Leo Gura

[Shin]

I think you can skip orange if you're already at blue, but you'll need to acquire certain skill that are in that stage.

For example, you can't search your life purpose if you didn't learn how to be strategic (you could, but it would take you forever).

You'll also need to learn how to be individualistic, because there will be certain moments in your life where you'll have to be self-centered (but in a positive, growth attitude way), and that could mean leaving friendship/relationship/and even your family.

Concerning ambition, I think that's more about being genuine in what you want, obviously, fake materialistic needs (money/fame/success/love (egotic needs of love))/ aren't what you're looking for.

 

Edited September 29, 2016 by Shin

[Soulbass]

Instead thinking of "add" something to your developpement, ask yourself "what can I get rid of""

[kurt]

@Anlib @Anlibno lol. You need to go through it. Most of it is getting the irrational beliefs out of your head. Orange is the highest level of development known in the world, appart from a few freak shows in the spiritual world. But to get to orange is a great achievement. And you can't become enlightened without it (the mental aspects). 

Spirituality is for grown ups who have good social standing and financial security, you need these qualities of mind to understand who you are, otherwise you won't get it.

[Anlib]

No orange is not close to highest in the spiral dynamics model  @kurt

[kurt]

@Anlib Its ok Study it closer. I said it's the highest in the world (formal op), not the highest stage on the map.

After orange and green (green which you want to get through asap if possible) there is hardly anyone in society that is past it. So that means your model of reality is expected to be orange at least. 

But the main point is we can't get to know ourselves if we have not lived out orange desires and also more importantly orange qualities. The orange qualities set the stage for further understanding for spiritual knowledge to be assimilated. 

 

[Anlib]

@kurt on the map? When leo talks about them in his video he never mention that orange is high at all

[kurt]

I'll rephrase it:

Orange is the top of the food chain i society.  It's where society is.  On the map its not high, but green and yellow and turquoise there is hardly anybody inhabiting that structure, so in reality orange rules.

What im saying is (if you want spiritual integration) you must reach turquoise, and to reach turquoise you have to have actually developed orange, because without orange there is nothing above it.

Forget about 3rd tier, its only potential development based on an evolutionary yogic perspective.

Hope this makes it clearer?

Edited September 29, 2016 by kurt

[Anlib]

@kurt on the map? When leo talks about them in his video he never mention that orange is high at all

49 minutes ago, kurt said:

I'll rephrase it:

Orange is the top of the food chain i society.  It's where society is.  On the map its not high, but green and yellow and turquoise there is hardly anybody inhabiting that structure, so in reality orange rules.

What im saying is (if you want spiritual integration) you must reach turquoise, and to reach turquoise you have to have actually developed orange, because without orange there is nothing above it.

Forget about 3rd tier, its only potential development based on an evolutionary yogic perspective.

Hope this makes it clearer?

Clearer. But you mean that the external stuff in unneccesary then? Haha

[Psychonaut]

Who cares about the orange stage. That stage is laughable. It's hollow there is no connection to what is important here. If everyone is in this stage we are going to destroy the planet and erase the whole human race. I'm not saying that is a bad thing. If we can't advance through these destructive stages fast enough till the coin lands and we are on the wrong side then that is how it is going to be.

There is no point in trying to use the spiral dynamics model to advance through it as an individual.

The model was meant for larger groups of people, for society as a whole. Its about we we we we not me me me me.

[Zane]

I would say that I'm in stage Orange but there are elements of stage Orange that I strongly agree with and that I disagree with. I strongly agree with the values of creativity, freedom, individualism, and living life on your own terms but I strongly disagree with abusing power to gain a much better advantage and screwing people over to win or having a black and white "winner and losers" mindset deeply grounded in dog eat dog capitalism mindset. I'm fascinated by stage Yellow and looking at government and society and humanity more holistically. Right now, I'm focusing at stage Green and I have a fascination with alternative ideologies outside the mainstream political paradigm like democratic socialism, socialism, Libertarianism, and Anarchism but I feel like any ideology or cause can become corrupted by extremism. Some elements of Stage Yellow I have is asking questions like "how do societies collapse?" "which historical events and historical figures that Donald Trump's rise strongly parallels?" "Is America deeply contradictory to it's own values?" "which toxic mindsets are deeply rooted in humanity that has greatly limited humanity's potential?" "is modern humanity achieving it's potential or wasting it's potential?" "Does society, politics, and humanity need a new paradigm shift? If yes, what is the next leap forwards for humanity?" "is history an internal monster that keeps returning to haunt us?" 

Edited September 29, 2016 by Zane

[kurt]

2 hours ago, Psychonaut said:

Who cares about the orange stage. That stage is laughable. It's hollow there is no connection to what is important here. If everyone is in this stage we are going to destroy the planet and erase the whole human race. I'm not saying that is a bad thing. If we can't advance through these destructive stages fast enough till the coin lands and we are on the wrong side then that is how it is going to be.

There is no point in trying to use the spiral dynamics model to advance through it as an individual.

The model was meant for larger groups of people, for society as a whole. Its about we we we we not me me me me.

This is the kind of thinking that prohibits discrimination of what is real and what is not real.  It blocks enlightenment because it's always judging things are either right or wrong, instead of being able to see what is there in front of it, how to deal with it and thus sustain peace.

I'm not sure what stage this is, but its definately not dispassionate.

There is no good and bad, right or wrong, there just is what is, and that's it - end of story.

This is why people need to pass through orange to more reasonable qualities of mind, because certain people obviously don't get what's being taught, they just want to create their own fantasy about what enlightenment is.

[kurt]

5 hours ago, Anlib said:

@kurt on the map? When leo talks about them in his video he never mention that orange is high at all

Clearer. But you mean that the external stuff in unneccesary then? Haha

If you want enlightenment you need rational thinking, then build on it.  Rational thinking isn't conducive to enlightenment itself, but it's more functional than irrational beliefs.  We're not talking intellect or material possession, were talking about qualities of mind that act as stepping stones.  You might even be at orange yourself, I have no idea.

[Orange]

On 29/09/2016 at 7:53 PM, kurt said:

 to reach turquoise you have to have actually developed orange, because without orange there is nothing above it.

 

 are you sure about this? Some people never set a foot in orange because they know from intuition it's not worth it..I'm thinking about Gandhi,  MLK and some other people I know..Then again I don't know their life story in detail so I'm not sure how true this is. If everyone in the world needs to go through orange we're fucked as a species. Or one could be in orange yet still be mindful about others and respect the environment? Or is that green already? 

[kurt]

9 minutes ago, Orange said:

 are you sure about this? Some people never set a foot in orange because they know from intuition it's not worth it..I'm thinking about Gandhi,  MLK and some other people I know..Then again I don't know their life story in detail so I'm not sure how true this is. If everyone in the world needs to go through orange we're fucked as a species. Or one could be in orange yet still be mindful about others and respect the environment? Or is that green already? 

Good question "Orange"

If you only know what orange looks like from your point of view, if you only have a cartoon like social model like spiral dynamics that you then proceed to interpret through your own intellectual faculties, and you dont have adequate understanding that "orange" is a just a rational objective mindset then all you see is Tia Lopez, the banking world and celebrities in hollywood.

There are other sources of information about the "developmental altitude" of formal operational thinking than spiral dynamics.

Were not fucked as a species, there is no species.  Point me to "a human race" that is outside your own assumption, and I will offer you up for the nobel peace prize because you are a genius and the first person to discover the human race as an objective reality!

That's turquoise thinking right there.  But you don't understand what it means when Turquoise says these things because you first need to understand what it means to pass through orange itself.

[Orange]

@kurt okay so you mean three things: 

1) my understanding of spiral dynamics is distorted because orange ( the stage..not me lol) is not reduced only to tai Lopez lamborghinis 

2) you are turquoise, so you understand there is nothing 'out there', everything is a label, including the label:' human species'

3) so everyone, including Gandhi, MLK etc has been through orange? 

Is that what you are saying?

Edited October 1, 2016 by Orange

[kurt]

35 minutes ago, Orange said:

Or one could be in orange yet still be mindful about others and respect the environment? Or is that green already? 

For a green thinker (who still takes themselves to be the body, therefore lives in duality) the environment for them is an object that is separate from them.  They believe in their conditioning that they are an individual who is a product of the material universe.  

People in the first tier can and do hijack spiral dynamics for their own agenda.

So it depends on where your information is coming from, if it is coming from a first tier person, they will interpret the model according to their own understanding.

 

[kurt]

57 minutes ago, Orange said:

I'm thinking about Gandhi,  MLK and some other people I know..

You're right, these 2 particular guys were way more developed than orange.  They did pass through orange on the way, 12-17 years old is orange thinking.

Most people don't reach orange in their lifetimes, they are only dictated to by orange paradigm because it's the top of the food chain in terms of interpreting experience. 

 

[kurt]

55 minutes ago, Orange said:

@kurt okay so you mean three things: 

1) my understanding of spiral dynamics is distorted because orange ( the stage..not me lol) is not reduced only to tai Lopez lamborghinis 

2) you are turquoise, so you understand there is nothing 'out there', everything is a label, including the label:' human species'

3) so everyone, including Gandhi, MLK etc has been through orange? 

Is that what you are saying?

I'm saying you are attached to your ideas and your bodymind (clearly, because you dont know who you are).  I'm aso saying you are possibly still at blue cognition because you imagine that you can skip stages, you probably stereotype life in much the same way as the model is presented to you.

I'm not turqouise, I said "thats turquoise thinking".  Dont put words in my mouth (although, I have no expectation from you to be anything than you already are)

[kurt]

1 hour ago, Orange said:

 

3) so everyone, including Gandhi, MLK etc has been through orange? 

I don't understand what this means.  In the apparent reality not everyone develops to an orange interpretation of what is happening to them.

In reality everybody is enlightened already, because there is no "everybody" there is only one "happening" here - which is turquoise thinking.  Unless you get rid of your irrational sterotyping beliefs then you do not have the qualities of mind to see what you already are.  All you live in is a distorted world of projections and beliefs caused by your conditioning.