Candace Owens Is Suing Facebook and Other Big Tech Companies

[hoodrow trillson]

LMAO at thinking that making your own hardware, software, OS and app store, PLUS needing advanced security tech built into a secure enclave on the phone itself, is as easy as asking Elon Musk and having some nerd looking guy coding on a computer to get it done.  Or a team of "ex-Apple" or "ex-Google" employees doing hard work and having it done.   Not to mention, doing all of this for a group of unhinged too-far gone people, that won't take accountability and have been brainwashed by extremely biased content they've been fed online for years, maybe a decade.

Samsung for example, is an Apple competitor and they haven't made their own OS.  Everyone wants Samsung to make their own OS to compete with Android and iOS but they can't.  The over-head they need is gargantuan.  Even Huawei which is backed by the CCP government, is having a challenging time designing their own OS and Apps and Appstore and have it streamlined and accepted by the entire world after Google dumped Huawei from using their platform and Google Play app store worldwide.

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

Yes, Elon Musk, please give us a platform where hate speech, racism, xenophobia, slander, lies, and outlandish conspiracy theories are allowed to flourish unchecked.

Right-wing logic.

The fundamental problem that the right-wing has is that their worldview is untenable, therefore they need a custom, closed ecosystem where they can inbreed with their own kind and escape facts en mass through self-validating circle-jerking.

Far right ideas can only survive inside a reality-denying echo-chamber.

Don't like the facts? No problem, just invent your own and gather a million like-minded people so that no one you talk to tells you otherwise.

[Rinne]

@The Don What kind of shit have you been smoking bro? ???

[Emerald]

@The Don I've read through the thread and it seems like you're in favor of completely unmoderated social media channels. Full stop.

So, my question to you is, 'Without the ability to moderate, how then do social media companies address the very real danger of demagogues and hate groups spreading propaganda that (either directly or indirectly) directs the masses towards acts of violence, hate crimes, insurrection, authoritarianism, and genocide?'

This is a very real issue. It isn't just "Words are just words. Get over it snowflake." There are some very real issues with the way large masses of people can be manipulated by the words of influential people. And this has bore out in history time and again. And it isn't just, "Well, then they should face the consequences of their own individual actions." At that point, the damage would already be done and a momentum towards terrible things already started.

It must be understood that, if a riot breaks out in a classroom, the teacher IS 100% at fault... even if they didn't make the students riot or tell the students to riot directly. The same is true of those exercising their free speech who end up stoking these societal flames... especially since they know exactly what they're doing.

Words put ideas in people's minds. And crafty individuals can (and always have) used their platforms to stoke the flames of hatred and oppression. 

Now, we have social media channels, where everyone has a platform that can be used to proliferate propaganda and radicalize people towards terrible things.

So, how do you propose that we address the problem of propaganda and indirect encouragement of crimes, if not through the moderation of misinformation and propaganda on social media platforms?

Also... "just let it happen" is not a valid answer to the question as it doesn't address any of the VERY SERIOUS issues that I mentioned above.

How do you maintain your view on 'free speech absolutism', while also addressing these issues in a meaningful way?

[WisdomSeeker]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

In a free, health society, so-called "rape" must be allowed in order to be countered properly.

Your logic, not mine.

@Leo Gura well done... great point. 

[abrakamowse]

Freedom to spread lies and misinformation!!!

Cool!!!

????

Hitler would be in favor of that if he was alive...

?

[Hello from Russia]

6 hours ago, hoodrow trillson said:

LMAO at thinking that making your own hardware, software, OS and app store, PLUS needing advanced security tech built into a secure enclave on the phone itself, is as easy as asking Elon Musk and having some nerd looking guy coding on a computer to get it done.  Or a team of "ex-Apple" or "ex-Google" employees doing hard work and having it done.   Not to mention, doing all of this for a group of unhinged too-far gone people, that won't take accountability and have been brainwashed by extremely biased content they've been fed online for years, maybe a decade.

Samsung for example, is an Apple competitor and they haven't made their own OS.  Everyone wants Samsung to make their own OS to compete with Android and iOS but they can't.  The over-head they need is gargantuan.  Even Huawei which is backed by the CCP government, is having a challenging time designing their own OS and Apps and Appstore and have it streamlined and accepted by the entire world after Google dumped Huawei from using their platform and Google Play app store worldwide.

 

 

 

@hoodrow trillson But what if in 10 days we wake up and there'll be lizards everywhere!!!  And all our phone will be hacked, what do we then??  You'll probably regret not posting this hashtag on tweeter so Elon could actually see. He doesn't see anything now,we are screwed  . Maybe he'll come up with that OS in 10 days and save us like Jesus did  (By turning Android OS into the Tesla or something)

Edited January 11, 2021 by Hello from Russia

[Arcangelo]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

seems like you're in favor of completely unmoderated social media channels. Full stop

I am. I rather that than the alternative. We are living in 1984 already and it is getting worse and worse. It's like a black mirror episode everyone being nice and saying nice things because they have to.

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

"Words are just words. Get over it snowflake."

I am a simple man. This makes sense.

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

"Well, then they should face the consequences of their own individual actions."

This also makes perfect sense to me. If people are dumb enough to do stupid shit let them suffer the consequences. So what? No one thinks for themselves anymore? If I hear trump talking stupid racist shit will I go and storm the capitol? No, I am not stupid, I will stay home and watch the news while I smoke some quality weed.

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

So, my question to you is, 'Without the ability to moderate, how then do social media companies address the very real danger of demagogues and hate groups spreading propaganda that (either directly or indirectly) directs the masses towards acts of violence, hate crimes, insurrection, authoritarianism, and genocide?'

 

IDK

But I know that the social media companies DGAF about the very real danger of demagogues and hate groups spreading propaganda. They just care about the money.

3 hours ago, Emerald said:

It must be understood that, if a riot breaks out in a classroom, the teacher IS 100% at fault.

I very strongly disagree. What are you talking about?

 

3 hours ago, Emerald said:

How do you maintain your view on 'free speech absolutism', while also addressing these issues in a meaningful way?

IDK

 

 

Arc

[Gidiot]

@Arcangelo collective responsibility exists, and I disagree, social media companies do care about certain forms of speech more and more every day. Facebook is the worst offender cause they allowed Holocaust deniers forever but recently just changed course.

leo make a good point that you must balance personal responsibility with collective responsibility, there is too much shirking of collective responsibility in just giving trump a pass for that riot and coup attempt which he told his supporters to March to the capitol and cheer for people they agree with and “not cheer” for the people they disagreed with. It’s getting out of hand and if you’re afraid that people can’t be vicious and ugly just look on Twitter there is plenty of vitriol. Trump only gets so many chances just like Alex Jones. Ultimately there is no fear in me because my barometer of freedom isn’t how much I can post on a private companies website or app. It’s how healthy and conscious the people in society are.

[Raphael]

2 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

If people are dumb enough to do stupid shit let them suffer the consequences. So what? No one thinks for themselves anymore? If I hear trump talking stupid racist shit will I go and storm the capitol? No, I am not stupid, I will stay home and watch the news while I smoke some quality weed.

Yes, but THESE PEOPLE ARE STUPID. They 100% believe what Trump says and are willing to take actions, and these actions will have a consequence on your life, and your freedom will be shutdown by abuses of freedom from dumb people. This is what happened at the capitol.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Raphael

[The Don]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, Elon Musk, please give us a platform where hate speech, racism, xenophobia, slander, lies, and outlandish conspiracy theories are allowed to flourish unchecked.

@Leo Gura, with all due respect, most conservatives are not driven by hate, racism, xenophobia, or outlandish conspiracy theories. Any group has bad apples in it, okay? And it's not fair to stereotype a group of people just because they have a different worldview than yours.

You might think that Spiral Dynamics is the ultimate truth and a framework for understanding the dynamic forces at work in human affairs; I think otherwise. I'll tell you why.

Human nature is not disposable. We know that it's the primary force for evolution. It is fair to say that human beings are mainly driven and governed by their emotions. Without them, we wouldn't be here today. And it's also fair to say that human beings are not rational. Only a naive person would think otherwise. Just because we can attain rationality, that doesn't mean we're fundamentally rational.

To believe that someday we're all gonna be at the Turquoise stage is simply Utopian. It won't happen. Look at the percentage of people who are truly developed today.

Contrary, we're living in a world full of traumatized people. It's the lack of multigenerational love that's problematic. All the problems in the world stem from human nature in combination with the lack of parental love. When you understand this, all Spiral Dynamics stages simply collapse; you finally get to see how superficial they are.

Ask yourself a question, Leo: how many people in the modern world will ever reach your level of understanding? How many people will ever go through the intense process you somehow managed to go through? Contemplate this. Come up with an answer.

You should perhaps force yourself to understand human nature and admit that you might sometimes be wrong. Even those presumably wise people who write books about Spiral Dynamics and consciousness could be wrong when it comes to societal evolution.

We're human beings.

Edited January 11, 2021 by The Don
To add a word.

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, The Don said:

Any group has bad apples in it, okay?

Those bad apples need to be purged otherwise their corruption infects the entire batch.

That's the key insight you're missing here.

You want a platform that does not remove bad apples. Which will never happen because of how dangerous that is. Which is why all online platforms require moderation and TOS. What you want is called anarchy. Well, don't be surprised when others don't want anarchy. It isn't fun.

[Danioover9000]

@Arcangelo

7 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

I am. I rather that than the alternative. We are living in 1984 already and it is getting worse and worse. It's like a black mirror episode everyone being nice and saying nice things because they have to.

I am a simple man. This makes sense.

This also makes perfect sense to me. If people are dumb enough to do stupid shit let them suffer the consequences. So what? No one thinks for themselves anymore? If I hear trump talking stupid racist shit will I go and storm the capitol? No, I am not stupid, I will stay home and watch the news while I smoke some quality weed.

 

IDK

But I know that the social media companies DGAF about the very real danger of demagogues and hate groups spreading propaganda. They just care about the money.

I very strongly disagree. What are you talking about?

 

IDK

 

 

Arc

   While it's true that people need to work on themselves, strap on bootstraps or whatever, some problems need a better society to fix.

   I think what's missing is properly teaching people about manipulation. That way they know when they're being gaslight themselves.

   Thoughts? 

[Danioover9000]

@The Don

3 hours ago, The Don said:

@Leo Gura, with all due respect, most conservatives are not driven by hate, racism, xenophobia, or outlandish conspiracy theories. Any group has bad apples in it, okay? And it's not fair to stereotype a group of people just because they have a different worldview than yours.

You might think that Spiral Dynamics is the ultimate truth and a framework for understanding the dynamic forces at work in human affairs; I think otherwise. I'll tell you why.

Human nature is not disposable. We know that it's the primary force for evolution. It is fair to say that human beings are mainly driven and governed by their emotions. Without them, we wouldn't be here today. And it's also fair to say that human beings are not rational. Only a naive person would think otherwise. Just because we can attain rationality, that doesn't mean we're fundamentally rational.

To believe that someday we're all gonna be at the Turquoise stage is simply Utopian. It won't happen. Look at the percentage of people who are truly developed today.

Contrary, we're living in a world full of traumatized people. It's the lack of multigenerational love that's problematic. All the problems in the world stem from human nature in combination with the lack of parental love. When you understand this, all Spiral Dynamics stages simply collapse; you finally get to see how superficial they are.

Ask yourself a question, Leo: how many people in the modern world will ever reach your level of understanding? How many people will ever go through the intense process you somehow managed to go through? Contemplate this. Come up with an answer.

You should perhaps force yourself to understand human nature and admit that you might sometimes be wrong. Even those presumably wise people who write books about Spiral Dynamics and consciousness could be wrong when it comes to societal evolution.

We're human beings.

   Yes, not every conservative is MAGA. For example, Vaush thinks all conservatives are MAGA, how ignorant is that?

[The Don]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Those bad apples need to be purged otherwise their corruption infects the entire batch.

Yes. Those who entered Capitol Hill illegally must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Some of them are Trump supporters indeed, others are not. A few of them were ANTIFA members; you can find footage on the internet and see that a handful of Trump supporters tried to stop them from entering Capitol Hill.

What we need to punish is bad human behavior. We have laws for that, Leo.

Because of a few bad apples, we shouldn't be against conservativism and try to silence people like Candace Owens. We shouldn't equate them with neo-Nazis.

Democracy is functional only when both sides are engaging in dialogue.

A lot of the Trump supporters voted for Obama, twice.

Edited January 11, 2021 by The Don
To remove the unnecessary 'the'.

[Emerald]

8 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

I am. I rather that than the alternative. We are living in 1984 already and it is getting worse and worse. It's like a black mirror episode everyone being nice and saying nice things because they have to.

I am a simple man. This makes sense.

This also makes perfect sense to me. If people are dumb enough to do stupid shit let them suffer the consequences. So what? No one thinks for themselves anymore? If I hear trump talking stupid racist shit will I go and storm the capitol? No, I am not stupid, I will stay home and watch the news while I smoke some quality weed.

 

IDK

But I know that the social media companies DGAF about the very real danger of demagogues and hate groups spreading propaganda. They just care about the money.

I very strongly disagree. What are you talking about?

 

Number one, you didn't address the issue in a meaningful way. You gave ZERO solutions to the problems I mentioned.

Also, teachers are 100% responsible if a riot breaks out in their classroom. You would realize this if you've ever been in responsible for any type of crowd control or had any form of responsibility for managing the collective... which social media companies have AND world leaders like Trump have.

I was a full time teacher and also substitute teacher for many years. Trust me. If a riot breaks out in a classroom, the teacher is the first place to look. And it is the first place the school administration will look... mostly because they all have been teachers before and know that the teacher is always at the crux of unruly classroom behavior.

Individual students are also responsible for the riot in terms of consequences.

But the teacher is the main person who's responsible because the teacher is steering the ship and setting the boundaries. So, it means that the teacher isn't doing their job as a moderator of student behavior and allowed things to escalate to the point of riot without intervening. 

And this is something that you'd know if you'd ever been a teacher before... or in any position of crowd control.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Emerald

[Danioover9000]

@Emerald

11 hours ago, Emerald said:

@The Don I've read through the thread and it seems like you're in favor of completely unmoderated social media channels. Full stop.

So, my question to you is, 'Without the ability to moderate, how then do social media companies address the very real danger of demagogues and hate groups spreading propaganda that (either directly or indirectly) directs the masses towards acts of violence, hate crimes, insurrection, authoritarianism, and genocide?'

This is a very real issue. It isn't just "Words are just words. Get over it snowflake." There are some very real issues with the way large masses of people can be manipulated by the words of influential people. And this has bore out in history time and again. And it isn't just, "Well, then they should face the consequences of their own individual actions." At that point, the damage would already be done and a momentum towards terrible things already started.

It must be understood that, if a riot breaks out in a classroom, the teacher IS 100% at fault... even if they didn't make the students riot or tell the students to riot directly. The same is true of those exercising their free speech who end up stoking these societal flames... especially since they know exactly what they're doing.

Words put ideas in people's minds. And crafty individuals can (and always have) used their platforms to stoke the flames of hatred and oppression. 

Now, we have social media channels, where everyone has a platform that can be used to proliferate propaganda and radicalize people towards terrible things.

So, how do you propose that we address the problem of propaganda and indirect encouragement of crimes, if not through the moderation of misinformation and propaganda on social media platforms?

Also... "just let it happen" is not a valid answer to the question as it doesn't address any of the VERY SERIOUS issues that I mentioned above.

How do you maintain your view on 'free speech absolutism', while also addressing these issues in a meaningful way?

   With the ability to moderate, Social media corporations moderate usually through A.I. algorithms, coded to flag any content that resembles, in terms of wording, propaganda, acts of violence, hate crimes, insurrection, authoritarianism, and genocide. However, this begs the questions such as how do we know what counts as propaganda, acts of violence, hate crimes, insurrection, authoritarianism, and genocide? And can A.I algorithms tell which is which, only by wording? Who gets to program the A.I to define which is which to flag? We've had cases when a YouTube content creator, or twitch user, is flagged for DMCA, and the A.I just flags generally all related content, instead of the specific individual for the DMCA.

   Without moderation, people can post whatever, on social media, and sometimes through digital means, effect the physical, like for example a small ISIS group was advertising themselves, and some users didn't like that, so they calculated their location using the time zone, geography, and weather from the video, posted this to the Russian military, and they sent missiles and destroyed that part of the location. Without moderation, you're assuming that people are extremely responsible for what they say in public, but that's sometimes not the case. The trick is how can government moderate more effectively, physical and digital? We'll have to find someway to put restrictions and regulations on the internet itself.

   Without moderation of social media, and let's also include physical societal moderations as well, there are only a few solutions to achieve this, is to use both cybernetic implants that moderate thinking and behavior, and also genetic manipulation, weeding out some people naturally problematic to everyone. This way, our hidden assumption of people being responsible is justified, by living in a hive mind, which is true freedom for others. Otherwise, we keep getting problems with small radical groups. A global A.I can, through cybernetics and gene manipulation, can deal with radicals swiftly.

        

[abrakamowse]

The social media platforms were very permissive. That’s why we are now lamenting these riots. 
 

This is not 1984. Sorry to burst your bubble. 
 

?

[Raphael]

2 hours ago, The Don said:

Because of a few bad apples, we shouldn't be against conservativism and try to silence people like Candace Owens. We shouldn't equate them with neo-Nazis.

They are not neo-nazis and it's OK to have conservative viewpoints.

But if a certain amount of people spread misinformation that contributes to a terrorist attack, it's an issue. This is misleading marketing. Thoughts create emotions that create actions.

Candace Owens should be banned to this point for contributing to the spread of the election fraud conspiracy theory that caused the death of five people.

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Raphael

[Forestluv]

55 minutes ago, Raphael said:

Candace Owens should be banned to this point for contributing to the spread of the election fraud conspiracy theory that caused the death of five people.

I haven’t seen twitter retroactively ban anyone based on rhetoric before the capital riot. I noticed that Candice has changed her framing and is now tweeting about big tech companies censoring conservatives. She hasn’t tweeted anything about a rigged election and a need to “stop the steal”. She has 2.6M followers and doesn’t want to lose her platform. 

This seems like a good example of shifting the Overton Window. It’s acceptable for high profile conservatives to complain about moderation and call for new social media platforms, yet unacceptable to amplify conspiracy theories that inflame and promote riots.

As Trump continues to lose flavor, I predict she will pivot away from Trump and toward a rebranding of right wing conservatism.