Trying to convince an average spiritual person of the efficacy of psychedelics

[BipolarGrowth]

Here are the studies that were referenced. 
 

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/single_dose_of_hallucinogen_may_create_lasting_personality_change

 

https://www.beckleyfoundation.org/resource/lsd-induced-entropic-brain-activity-predicts-subsequent-personality-change/ 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/hbm.23234

 

I’m starting to wonder if it’s worth it to even try to show that psychedelics have spiritual value for people like this. 

[Javfly33]

This horse has been beaten to death.

Ime, my opinion of psychedelics for enlightment has changed.

Yes they definetely can induce enlightment. But you go back to your old state afterwards.
 

Afterwards, is the surrender of You that has all the power decision. No 1000 thousands trips will enlightened you if turns out Consciousness just don´t want to surrender to itself. Yet maybe 2 trips is all you need if you have an "old soul" (if you want to believe in that sort of things), and just a glimpse of a few hours is all that God needs to accept itself and delete the ego confusion for ever.

But overall, psychedelic experiences for spirituality are most of the time deeply useful, as always, the best thing is try to do everything you can to wake up. No magic pill exists since ultimately You are the one who has to "make" the decision to be Wake Up 

[BipolarGrowth]

@Javfly33 my main argument here was not at all that psychedelics cause permanent enlightenment. I agree with you on this. Something being beneficial for spiritual growth is not the same as being a one-stop-shop for instantly gained permanent enlightenment. 
 

My argument was first that psychedelics can cause both chakra activation and kundalini energy to rise. For that part, all I can argue with is my direct experience. He won’t believe it if he doesn’t want to. Both of those things can greatly help enlightenment. The next part was that the personality shifts that psychedelics give are helpful on any serious spiritual path. Higher openness and less neuroticism is always going to boost things. Openness helps mainly with fine tuning your theory while lower neuroticism is going to make meditation more effective. 

[Javfly33]

2 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

@Javfly33 my main argument here was not at all that psychedelics cause permanent enlightenment. I agree with you on this. Something being beneficial for spiritual growth is not the same as being a one-stop-shop for instantly gained permanent enlightenment. 
 

My argument was first that psychedelics can cause both chakra activation and kundalini energy to rise. For that part, all I can argue with is my direct experience. He won’t believe it if he doesn’t want to. Both of those things can greatly help enlightenment. The next part was that the personality shifts that psychedelics give are helpful on any serious spiritual path. Higher openness and less neuroticism is always going to boost things. Openness helps mainly with fine tuning your theory while lower neuroticism is going to make meditation more effective. 

But isn´t chakra and kundalini energy just stories of the ego?

I´ve never seen something like that rather than just thoughts labeling "chakra" and "kundalini" to appearences in consciousness.

However I agree than they can cause such a thing 

[Bodhitree]

Interesting discussion. I recall reading both Osho and Papaji saying that psychedelics were a temporary aid, and couldn’t cause a permanent enlightenment. But then you have people like Terence McKenna and Ram Dass, and they seem to have done well by it.