God Vs Nothingness - Enlightened Buddhist Frank Yang Vs Connor Murphy and Leo

[blackchair]

uuuu another chick fight, im here for it!

[Valwyndir]

On 2/22/2021 at 11:24 PM, Heart of Space said:

Frank claims to be highly enlightened.  Watch one video and it's clear he's still a clown.  He's like 35 and still worships Zyzz and encorporates it into his spirituality.  Conor has similar problems.  I wish people would just ignore them, they aren't worth your time.

Frank's enlightenment might not be the broadest, but it's probably the deepest I've seen personally. 

I would claim that the dissolution of the limited mental construct that perceives "clown" behavior as negative has not only been advantageous but in fact mandatory for the depth of Frank's awakening.  

 

[Heart of Space]

2 minutes ago, Valwyndir said:

Frank's enlightenment might not be the broadest, but it's probably the deepest I've seen personally. 

I would claim that the dissolution of the limited mental construct that perceives "clown" behavior as negative has not only been advantageous but in fact mandatory for the depth of Frank's awakening.  

I think you're making a massive assumption in regards to his spiritual progress.  

He's a spiritual person I'll give him that much and he has his own unique path. 

However, he is a baby in terms of the time frame he's participated in this stuff.  Meditation alone as far as my personal understanding tends not to enlighten people in such a short time frame.  

On top of that, he comes from a philosophy of glorifying extremely unconscious behavior.  And on the surface still exhibits extremely unconscious behavior.  

And even though he intellectualizes his spiritual philosophy with relative competence, he still shows holes in his understanding and comes across as a bit of a spiritual ego narcissist.  

That is my perspective, your welcome to it.  Or not.  I wish the guy luck, truly I do.  

[Inliytened1]

@Heart of Space i wonder.  If he was deeply enlightened he would realize that this is a dream.   And he would realize that all others are projections of the mind.  Just as i now play in the dream and dream that i am talking to a conscious being.  

[Ry4n]

3 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

I think you're making a massive assumption in regards to his spiritual progress.  

He's a spiritual person I'll give him that much and he has his own unique path. 

However, he is a baby in terms of the time frame he's participated in this stuff.  Meditation alone as far as my personal understanding tends not to enlighten people in such a short time frame.  

On top of that, he comes from a philosophy of glorifying extremely unconscious behavior.  And on the surface still exhibits extremely unconscious behavior.  

And even though he intellectualizes his spiritual philosophy with relative competence, he still shows holes in his understanding and comes across as a bit of a spiritual ego narcissist.  

That is my perspective, your welcome to it.  Or not.  I wish the guy luck, truly I do.  

he's used 5meo and other psychedelics, he just isn't doing them right now. He has been diagnosed bi-polar in the past so that probably complicates things. I don't deny he's had massive awakenings off meditation alone, but I'm sure his bi-polar influences this. It seems they are in fact at an advantage over "normal" people when it comes to awakening, however it doesn't seem like a healthy expression of it that's for sure lol.

[Heart of Space]

1 hour ago, Ry4n said:

he's used 5meo and other psychedelics, he just isn't doing them right now. He has been diagnosed bi-polar in the past so that probably complicates things. I don't deny he's had massive awakenings off meditation alone, but I'm sure his bi-polar influences this. It seems they are in fact at an advantage over "normal" people when it comes to awakening, however it doesn't seem like a healthy expression of it that's for sure lol.

I used to be subscribed to him.  I'm very aware of what he has done.  I hadn't followed him for years because his 'spiritual content' just feels so full of delusion and there's a ton of better stuff out there. The dude has been on 3 vipassana retreats, I think he should cool his jets a bit.  

Honestly, it seems he's made progress, but I feel it's very unlikely he's as awakened as he claims.  He's also gotten better at parroting spiritual concepts, but he always falls flat on his face once he goes off of the script and makes his own philosophy.  

Edited February 25, 2021 by Heart of Space

[Valwyndir]

14 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

Honestly, it seems he's made progress, but I feel it's very unlikely he's as awakened as he claims.  He's also gotten better at parroting spiritual concepts, but he always falls flat on his face once he goes off of the script and makes his own philosophy.  

I would meticulously examine the fine line between a nonsensical philosophy and a philosophy that makes no sense to you.

Frank is beginning to be respected by prestigious members of the Dharma community, including Daniel Ingram, a widely accepted Arahant and author of the popular book, "Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha: An Unusually Hardcore Dharma Book."

Maybe there's a reason he's among this company. 

[Carl-Richard]

13 minutes ago, Valwyndir said:

I would meticulously examine the fine line between a nonsensical philosophy and a philosophy that makes no sense to you.

[Heart of Space]

49 minutes ago, Valwyndir said:

I would meticulously examine the fine line between a nonsensical philosophy and a philosophy that makes no sense to you.

Frank is beginning to be respected by prestigious members of the Dharma community, including Daniel Ingram, a widely accepted Arahant and author of the popular book, "Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha: An Unusually Hardcore Dharma Book."

Maybe there's a reason he's among this company. 

There are a lot of people within spirituality that have clout that shouldn't.  In fact, that’s a bigger problem within spirituality than it is in many other disciplines.  Too many bullshit artists.  Frank is likely bullshitting himself as much as he is other people.

Like I said.  My perspective, you're welcome to it, or not.  

Edited February 25, 2021 by Heart of Space

[Flyboy]

If you think Frank is bullshitting, I think you either 1. don't know much about Frank or 2. don't know much about enlightenment, or both.  Obviously you can never "know", but I think it is very likely Frank is being genuine.  I leave it to you to understand why if you care to actually go learn about his journey.

[vladorion]

20 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

I think you're making a massive assumption in regards to his spiritual progress.  

He's a spiritual person I'll give him that much and he has his own unique path. 

However, he is a baby in terms of the time frame he's participated in this stuff.  Meditation alone as far as my personal understanding tends not to enlighten people in such a short time frame.  

On top of that, he comes from a philosophy of glorifying extremely unconscious behavior.  And on the surface still exhibits extremely unconscious behavior.  

And even though he intellectualizes his spiritual philosophy with relative competence, he still shows holes in his understanding and comes across as a bit of a spiritual ego narcissist.  

That is my perspective, your welcome to it.  Or not.  I wish the guy luck, truly I do.  

Lots of assumptions here.

#1 - The time frame one has participated in this stuff matters. Is it true? There are people who meditate their whole lives and don't get anywhere and there are those who go to 1 satsang and have an awakening. Which one is more awake?

#2 - Meditation tends to not enlighten people in a short period of time. Again, everyone is different.

#3 - Where you come from matters. Does it? Wayne Liquorman did coke for 20 years before he went to India, met his teacher and got awakened. Does that mean his awakening is not real?

[integral]

We need more people like him. What ever this level of awakening is, its wonderful in comparison to the average unconscious person. 

This trend of awakened bodybuilders/athlete/celebrities is great stuff.

Frank, Conner, Mike tyson... 

Edited February 25, 2021 by integral

[Heart of Space]

58 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Lots of assumptions here.

#1 - The time frame one has participated in this stuff matters. Is it true? There are people who meditate their whole lives and don't get anywhere and there are those who go to 1 satsang and have an awakening. Which one is more awake?

#2 - Meditation tends to not enlighten people in a short period of time. Again, everyone is different.

#3 - Where you come from matters. Does it? Wayne Liquorman did coke for 20 years before he went to India, met his teacher and got awakened. Does that mean his awakening is not real?

Time frame absolutely matters, especially with meditation.  You don't see Zen monks claim enlightenment at random stages, like the amount of time spent to enlightenment is determined by a random number generator.  Most of the time a large portion of a lifetime is spent in meditation propelled by astronomical levels of motivation and discipline.  That's not to say there aren't outliers, but this experiment has been ran for centuries and this is the result.  Frank has done three piddly little 10 day retreats.  That's it, three.

Where you come from absolutely matters.  If you spend half your life an unconscious zombie, you are starting further from the finish line.  Again, there are outliers, but why wouldn't you acknowledge this as an obvious fact of statistical probability?  

Look if you guys want to drink the kool-aid because you feel Frank is worthy of being put on that pedestal, then go right ahead.  I can't stop you.  

I just choose to exercise cautious skepticism over such claims in an age of so many bullshit claims of enlightenment.  Hell, while we're at it let's validate all the other 20 year olds on this forum who've claimed to be enlightened.  

Edited February 25, 2021 by Heart of Space

[vladorion]

I don't think anyone should be put on the pedestal, regardless of their enlightenment. The fact that he gets talked about and people believe his experience is genuine doesn't mean he gets put on the pedestal.

That stuff matters generally, but is not necessarily applicable to everyone in the same way. That's why I think it's incorrect to judge someone's experience by where they come from or how much they've meditated.

[Heart of Space]

15 minutes ago, vladorion said:

I don't think anyone should be put on the pedestal, regardless of their enlightenment. The fact that he gets talked about and people believe his experience is genuine doesn't mean he gets put on the pedestal.

That stuff matters generally, but is not necessarily applicable to everyone in the same way. That's why I think it's incorrect to judge someone's experience by where they come from or how much they've meditated.

People who are listening to what Frank says while believing that he is enlightened feel his words hold weight as such, no? 

Is this not a form of putting him on a pedestal?  

And if that stuff doesn't matter, do you whole heartedly believe every claim to enlightenment?  Or do you have some sort of standard that people have to meet for you to have more certainty over someone's level of spiritual progress?  

Surely you acknowledge that the number of people who are delusional or lying far exceeds the number of people who are legitimate, no?  

Edited February 26, 2021 by Heart of Space

[vladorion]

18 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

People who are listening to what Frank says while believing that he is enlightened feel his words hold weight as such, no? 

Is this not a form of putting him on a pedestal?  

And if that stuff doesn't matter, do you whole heartedly believe every claim to enlightenment?  Or do you have some sort of standard that people have to meet for you to have more certainty over someone's level of spiritual progress?  

Surely you acknowledge that the number of people who are delusional or lying far exceeds the number of people who are legitimate, no?  

No. I think his awakening is legit, I don't know if it's enlightenment though. And even if I believe someone is enlightened, doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to put them on a pedestal. I'm not into guru worshipping any more.

I personally watched Frank's videos for entertainment purposes, not so much to get anything practical out of it. I don't view him as a teacher. The dude is just filming his spiritual journey as it happens and sharing it with the world, don't see anything wrong with that. Also, don't see anything wrong with claiming enlightenment if you genuinely believe it. Problems begin when people start worshipping those whom they believe to be enlightened like they're above them.

My standard it just the feeling I get when I see a person. To me that's a much better indicator of someone's level of spiritual progress than knowing how much they've meditated or how many retreats they went on. The latter is like judging someone's progress in the gym by learning about how much they work out and when they've started. 

I'm not denying that most people claiming to be enlightened are probably not, and it's unclear what exactly the term means. To me it's a matter of, do I resonate with this person, does his/her experience seem genuine, would I want to be like that etc. 

[Heart of Space]

@vladorionI think everything you are saying is very reasonable.  I take no issue with your perspective.  

[RendHeaven]

@Heart of Space bro what are you even fighting lol

[Heart of Space]

10 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

@Heart of Space bro what are you even fighting lol

Who was fighting?  Seemed pretty respectful on all sides to me.  You misunderstood.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Heart of Space

[RendHeaven]

@Heart of Space Nah you're definitely fighting (for) something lol. I never said it's a person.

Your last 5+ posts are full of assumptions and judgements about frank. What's the point?