To Get Involved or to Not

[PepperBlossoms]

It's the common question - Should I say something?  Do I just forget about it?  What do I do?  Should I let them figure it out eventually?

What do you do in those situations?

You see someone cut in line in front of you.. someone tells you about how they are going around with all these people and not wearing a mask.. you have a different idea.. you see your boss blaming an external cause rather than it being the teams fault... you see someone getting bullied... you see what you think is incomplete logic.

Then you ask yourself, do I let this go or do something about it?  Why am I the only one saying something - Why is no one else engaging?  Are they just not concerned or thinking about it or care?  Or are they just choosing to say nothing?  Or I am just telling myself that they aren't doing anything but they are?  Did they not notice but I did?  Will it be more painful to get involved or to not get involved?  You have the info so you might as well share it?

What situations trigger you to act and what situations trigger you to just watch it play out from the sidelines?  What are the metrics that you set for when you will do what?  What do you do when you try to make a change but the change does not accept?

[BlackMaze]

This is a really good question. 

If something is trivial or at least i consider it trivial i let it go. 

If i know that even if i act or say something the other person won't even hear me or understand because he/she is stubborn or stupid or arrogant i let it go. 

Now if someone is getting bullied and you could do something about it then why not act? It seems like the right thing to do. 

I personally get triggered when i hear stupid shit, at work for example. If something they say is clearly stupid and i know this for a fact i will say what i must to say. I don't care if i get fired at this point. 

But sometimes these kind of decisions can be more complicated. Let's say you have a friend and your friend cheats in his/her relationship. Should you tell or not? Is the fact that it's your friend good enough reason to not let the person know? 

I concluded that you will take action as long as you are ok with the consequences. You are going to tell if you are ok with losing your friend. You will protect someone from bullying if you are ok with the possibility of a fight and so on. 

[PepperBlossoms]

I was noticing the kind and gentle nature of people and wondering if that was the best way to go but then I realized that kind and gentle can be nice and pretty but can be extremely inefficient - it can be far more efficient to say the words that need to be said in a way they can be understood and utilized rather than to say nothing at all and not help the person become more aware of what oneself is aware of.  Some egos need to hear things so as to help the person better grow their ego and get away from maintaining a low ego state (but some will be capable of hearing the info and others will not - but if no one ever tries to address the low ego - it may never get developed if the person is unable to do it on their own.. tricky.

@BlackMaze Thanks for the response.  Good responses!  Regarding getting triggered at work - At least you are able to recognize that there is something toxic about the situation - even if there is an emotional response.  It is a step above not recognizing it at all.  I was thinking that there tend to be 3 stages - not seeing the toxicity for what it is so no response, seeing it and emotionally responding, and seeing it and having more info to not have an emotional response but a logical one - which sometimes the logical one will be to say what needs to be said as it can be unacceptable to just let the toxicity continue with no one doing anything - so good for you for putting a stand to that!  I'm sorry your work has stuff like that - but we're also all at different levels of development and working through different things in our lives.  With the cheating friend thing - I'd probably talk to the person doing the cheating and try to get them to reconsider what they are doing as the first mode of action.  Yeah some people won't understand or take action on our suggestions - we can either keep sending them the message in different ways until they do or they convince us that they have more info than us and we are the ones that are off or b let them continue on and either they make the connection eventually or they don't - it is hard to get someone to pay special attention to something - I guess we could say - hey man listen up this is important or something like that and try to force them to listen depending on what it is.

Edited January 8, 2021 by PepperBlossoms

[Yamak9889]

13 hours ago, PepperBlossoms said:

What do you do in those situations?

If they're open-minded to take your advice and it might actually help them go for it.

if not let them be, that is completely fine.

with time and more experiences, you'll know when it feels right and when it does not.

[PepperBlossoms]

11 minutes ago, Yamak9889 said:

If they're open-minded to take your advice and it might actually help them go for it.

if not let them be, that is completely fine.

with time and more experiences, you'll know when it feels right and when it does not.

Thanks for the response!  Agreed - I think the skill will tend to get better developed as we learn more about different ways of responding and when to respond based on our own trial and error and seeing what others are doing and will start to see what is the best method (also depending on what we are trying to go for).

That is an interesting point on stating - if they are open-minded.  I guess that then brings up the discussion - how do I know if this person is open-minded or even if they are, are they open-minded in this topic/realm of life?  I guess hints of open-mindedness could as an example be the ability to have a back and forth conversation and discussing your views and the other views together and the ability to dig deeper into the other person's views and ask them more questions about it rather than keeping the focus on one's own's views - the ability to give focus to an idea that is different from one's own.  

It can be fine to not say anything if they won't listen - we just have to accept that that could lead to lots of destruction/suboptimal results if that is a path that they are on - which we just have to accept and be okay with.  I tend to veer on the path of say something even if they are not open-minded because it is at least opening the door for them to consider the info rather than saying nothing which keeps the door closed.

Edited January 8, 2021 by PepperBlossoms

[Yamak9889]

50 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

I tend to veer on the path of say something even if they are not open-minded because it is at least opening the door for them to consider the info rather than saying nothing which keeps the door closed.

You can, it's your life. live by your own philosophy!

I just couldn't care enough to give advice to those who don't have the potential to see the wisdom behind my words. 

Recognizing open-minded and close-minded people will become like black and white with time and practice  good luck!!

[PepperBlossoms]

@Yamak9889 True.  Then comes the question of - what is the key to unlock the door of the closed-minded person?  What sentence do I need to tell them to pry open the door?  What image do they need?  What story should I tell?  What documentary should I have them watch?

I have tried with some people and have yet to make any dents.

[Yamak9889]

9 hours ago, PepperBlossoms said:

@Yamak9889 True.  Then comes the question of - what is the key to unlock the door of the closed-minded person?  What sentence do I need to tell them to pry open the door?  What image do they need?  What story should I tell?  What documentary should I have them watch?

I have tried with some people and have yet to make any dents.

Oh deaar... I am afraid you still have much to learn  did you actually experience non-duality? 

it does not matter if you help them or not. caring isn't a thing. only the false self cares. only the false self has emotions. 

The soul does not have emotions the soul is an (IS) you need to drop all your knowledge of right and wrong and I should do this and should not do that and start looking at everything as (IS) 


I saw your profile you keep asking more and more questions. this will only guide you to a weird place of the false self.

it's a trap. 

The lives of others don't matter and neither does yours. That is a fact you'll understand once you kill your false self.

I hope what i'm saying make any sense.

Just for a couple of days forget everything you've been taught and only believe what you experience. go deep deep into meditation and breathwork and you'll kill the false self and recognize that you're god. From your own experience. not from what Leo says or What I say.

study psychology as well. There is a ton of studies that show u that u shouldn't give advice to close-minded people however close they are.

[PepperBlossoms]

@Yamak9889 I can see that this can be where it gets tricky - to speak in the realm of the absolute or the relative.  In the realm of the relative, asking questions can be helpful.  In the realm of the absolute, one can say there is nothing to ask, nothing to know or not know, no distinctions to make, nothing to do, nothing to be, nothing to learn - I guess the problem (which itself tends to be a problem saying it is a problem) is that staying in the realm of the absolute closes the door in a way that there is nothing to happen.  To me I get the sense that it kinda shuts out opportunity that duality tends to allow for.

Why then have duality exist in the first place?  Why then have me and you, two separate ideas, two separate perspectives, two separate experiences?  (Yes or we could say we are part of the same one thing..)

To not ask questions can be a way to stop making observations, to stop being curious - which there can tend to be nothing absolutely right or wrong about doing or not doing, from my perspective.  I can see though that the foundation of a question - "Why did this cause this?" "What am I looking at" - can produce a false answer - the What will tend to be a distinction drawn, which may not represent the whole; the why be also lead to an incorrect answer as the why may never be fully known if nothing can be known; "How" - same thing; "Who" - same thing - so yeah good point in that the foundation of questions could lead to answers that are not the whole and thus incomplete.  Even making an "is" statement may tend to lead to something incomplete from the full infinite.  Yeah good point though that it basically can create a situation that makes things more deluded - it kinda puts a stopper on anything.. asking questions on the other-hand can be a tool for pointing out observations and getting the observation that another part of the whole has made.

In a way, the idea of a false self cannot seem to fully exist either - maybe less authentic self as we cannot fully verify if something is false - maybe an incomplete missing some puzzle pieces self.  A self that is seemingly putting oneself in the position to be more deluded than seeing clarity.

For the studies that say that closed minded people should not get advice - if we go on the realm that there is no should or should not - then we could say that we could chose to or chose not to - in a way, one could argue that the closed minded people need more help than the non-closed minded people (or on the absolute there is no need so it doesn't matter and me saying that there is a need to be non-closed minded is also biased and that yes we can just learn to appreciate their closed mindedness or ignore it or forget it or whatever we chose) 

Yes I can see the perspective that nobody's lives matter and some of us may decide that they do even if they don't - but there's also the idea that stuff does matter - the cool thing about everything is that all of the perspectives allow for different views and some views would point to things mattering and others would point to things not mattering and it can be nice to appreciate the different things and see what all there is in it.

I can also see that there is the dual perspective of us being separate individuals and the non-dual perspective of us being part of the same thing - so the idea that another person is closed minded and we are open minded then even is off ha as it would rather be that everything has its own level of closed to open minded or the idea of closed and open in a duality too and there where one choses to draw the line can be subjective so even that makes it to where there is not one or the other, just different arrangements of the whole.......  It is a work in progress to sort through all the dualities and notice them as dualities......

I can see that there is the tetter totter of duality vs "everything just is" to one scale and then a larger scale of just everything and it can be nice to zoom in and out of that.

Thanks for the inputs.  I (we) appreciate the feedback.

Edited January 9, 2021 by PepperBlossoms

[Yamak9889]

@PepperBlossoms

U did not answer my question. 

Did you experience Non-Duality? I am putting all my money on the "no" answer

I think you've fallen into one of the ego traps. Look at my critique as a way to increase your development.

also, I may be just wrong and have a different perspective on everything.

If you did not experience yourself being everything. and freak out then you still got work to do.

Best of luck ;D

[BigDogRaven]

@PepperBlossoms

Hi, in regards to your OP; I will add my 2 cents. This is coming from my life experience. Most on here are of the younger age, I'm 54, so I have few years under my belt. This is a good question, where I see things currently; I tend to try and say NOTHING. In the past I was the guy who always said something. I feel this has not served me well in my life. I have many regrets about these situations. Now I consciously try and shut my mouth. This has been a point of emphasis for me recently. I actually tell myself sometimes ahead of time to STFU (shut the fuck up). My big mouth has gotten ruined many a relationship for me. Granted I have such a long way to go with this personal development, only been at it for a bit over one year.

Namaste

 

[AlwaysJoggin]

@PepperBlossoms ah i always act up most people are scared just want to get by with there robotic lifes ,I choose to stand up for people and my self in public one time i was getting extremely harassed and threatened by a drunk guy at the subway who also assaulted me, I’m confident and i can take care of my self luckily for me he chose wrong person to miss with but in the train cart when he was harassing me and everyone was just watching alot of people i looked at them and said what are you people doing you shouldn’t be silent when you see wrong and a fellow person who could use help like maybe they could have spoke up said something it would help there silence made me feel alone and less safe they all looked scared lol anyways I choose to be a strong leader and person and inspire for others to be the same thats why i told everyone who was watching me get harassed and just stood watching to be strong and not be afraid cuz I could tell some people where concerned with what’s happening   maybe the world will be a better place idk probably will. So what do You want? You want to help someone who is getting bullied or watch him and feel his pain without doing anything? I just can’t i feel the pain and i see myself and i try . that’s love 

What ever it is chose to face fears and uncomfortable feelings you will grow from it 

[Origins]

@PepperBlossoms I believe in always throwing myself at the chaos of life, no rules other than those negotiated just growth and integration. You’ve gotta be more brave with your movements, jump into life, then contemplate. You can’t contemplate life if you start out in a dark room, you have to experience life first before you can begin to reflect on and learn from it.

[PepperBlossoms]

 

5 hours ago, Yamak9889 said:

Did you experience Non-Duality? 

@Yamak9889 Here is what I have experienced so far in the realm of what could be close to non-duality: I saw that we all seemingly came from the same origin - that humans/plants/insects/animals are all seemingly coming from the same source but are also the same being "I" and there were also visualizations that reminded me of infiniti.  The idea of birth that there was no birth and that we were alive when our mom was alive and mom's mom and mom's mom and all the way back and that we are a part of our mom but also the mom's mom and mom's mom to the sense that our identity is everything - that ant's only look different from humans because the reproduction had a slight mutation over a very long period of time and that we are related to ants just like being related to humans but also the identity that we are the ants too.  There was the idea that ourselves does not die as long as life is still alive when our individual being dies (basically extending the identity from human body to all of life in that sense - also like how a branch on a tree can die but as long as the rest of the tree is still alive, the tree lives on).  (In that moment I was not freaking out - I was actually rather ready to stop breathing ha) - the idea that all the different individuals of "I" allow the "I" to have all these different perspectives and experiences and we can learn of of each other - the idea that all of life must continuously be alive to stay alive and have life today - the idea that we are our mom/boyfriend/boss/cockroach/dog/etc.- I don't think I went deep enough to get the full thing yet though - still more to go.. work in progress.. if that answers your question.  I was having trouble with the notion of identifying with being the parent as the sperm and the egg had to combine to have the recipe for the offspring - and before that - the sperm and egg weren't combined yet (or that is how science had taught it) - still some stuff to explore.  Yes I probably have lots of ego traps that I need to identify and get out of - thanks for the suggestions.

@BigDogRaven I'm sorry that it has ruined many relationships.  It can be tricky!!  The ego is weird.  Congrats on this personal development for a year.  If my boyfriend hadn't gotten me into it, I don't know if I would have ever stumbled upon it myself.  Maybe as you do more of it, you'll get a better eye for things and it'll make the relationship thing easier too.

@AlwaysJoggin Good job on standing up for the bullied. It takes a level of awareness of being able to spot when something is wrong and is hurting the person next to you and how to react to it and what to do/not to do.

@Origins Well said.  The experiences can tend to be super helpful and yeah agreed - yes we can imagine lots of stuff sitting on the floor meditating but, the experience outside of meditation can tend to go in ways we would have maybe never "imagined" on "our own".

[Yamak9889]

2 hours ago, PepperBlossoms said:

Yes I probably have lots of ego traps that I need to identify and get out of

Yep, I think u should even take some time off the website and leo's videos.

Just do your own thinking of everything. don't just keep taking other people's thinking.