How have we never been born?

[Intraplanetary]

I heard Leo quite a few times saying he has the realisation of him never been born. He said this insight also occurs in the construct-aware stage.

Can someone with the direct experience explain this?

As far as I grasping it... okay, so, me as the self is imaginary. Everything about me is an illusion such as my identity, cultural conditioning, personality and the like. These are just agglomeration of thoughts that creates the self. 

But what about my physical body? Have I sill born as a human being??? 

So when Leo says he realised he has never been born, does he refers to the illusion of the self as I-thought or also his physical body?

Edited January 7, 2021 by Intraplanetary

[James123]

@Intraplanetary

just read posts this topic. You can find the answer with details. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by James123

[Mafortu]

When you identify yourself as source, you realize that you were never born because you have always existed. 

As source is the ultimate truth, everything else is a lie.

If you identify yourself as your human ego construct, you cant grasp this directly. 

[Tim R]

@Intraplanetary

8 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

But what about my physical body? Have I sill born as a human being??? 

"Physical body" and "human" are also just ideas.

9 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

So when Leo says he realised he has never been born, does he refers to the illusion of the self as I-thought or also his physical body?

Both are thoughts, both are illusions.

[Intraplanetary]

5 minutes ago, Mafortu said:

If you identify yourself as your human ego construct, you cant grasp this directly. 

@Mafortu Ego is not the body. So no, I don't identify myself as ego, at least I'm working on it as I grasp the illusory nature if it.

But we have bodies? Or they are just an illusion? How similar or different to the illusion of thought?

Edited January 7, 2021 by Intraplanetary

[Intraplanetary]

5 minutes ago, Tim R said:

15 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

So when Leo says he realised he has never been born, does he refers to the illusion of the self as I-thought or also his physical body?

Both are thoughts, both are illusions.

@Tim R Do you realise that yourself? How does it make you feel?

[No Self]

16 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

I heard Leo quite a few times saying he has the realisation of him never been born. He said this insight also occurs in the construct-aware stage.

Can someone with the direct experience explain this?

Best to pursue your own direct experience. There's no point trying to satisfy the mind's curiosity with more ideas and beliefs. Leo's insight mirrors that of many masters of bygone centuries.

[Mafortu]

2 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

Ego is not the body. So no, I don't identify myself as ego, at least I'm working on it as I grasp the illusory nature if it.

But we have bodies? Or they are just an illusion? How similar or different to the illusion of thought?

In the eyes of ultimate truth, what's real and what's illusory is irrelevant, an endless debate not worth engaging in.

You have a body, this fact can look both real and fake depends on how you look at it, the only truth is that you are aware of it, and thats it.

[TheAvatarState]

@Intraplanetary if you're asking about the experience of it, it's like any deep insight, at first it's quite jarring. You could possibly have a meltdown. But once the dust settles, you start taking the new reality as "normal" and it's liberating. Reality feels much more "alive" and "mysterious" after this particular insight. 

But reading about it won't cut it. I suggest journaling and contemplating, or the most direct method of psychedelics. Prove the statement "I was never born" is wrong. Don't believe anyone. Once you get it, it's a real mind-fuck. 

[allislove]

@Intraplanetary

What is the physical body? Close the eyes, investigate the direct experience. The body is just bunch of sensations, isn't it?

Where these sensations appear? Who is experiencing the sensations? What is the substance the sensations made of? Investigate the direct experience. It's all Consciousness. 

Consciousness never appears or disappears, never gets born or dies. That's your true nature ??

[Nahm]

You have an inner being, and the feeling of this inner being is better than any experience. It is better than sex, any relationship, any food or drug, any accomplishment, notoriety or achievement. All that is ‘required’ to directly experience this, is letting thought come & go and not attaching. That requires no effort. Attachment to thought is effortful. The distinction between direct experience and a thought is this very being, overlooked. 

Right now, in direct experience, is there being born, or is there the experience of the thought about being born? 

Not in a past. There is no past in direct experience. Right now...what is actual - NOW. 

The greatest of experience is intuition, siddhis, mediumship, etc. All just below thought attachment. 

[Intraplanetary]

3 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Right now, in direct experience, is there being born, or is there the experience of the thought about being born? 

Not in a past. There is no past in direct experience. Right now...what is actual - NOW.

Brilliant. So insightful ?

[Nahm]

Just now, Intraplanetary said:

Brilliant. So insightful ?

Great. Thanks, yada yada. lol. 

Notice there’s no me that came from. 

REALLY notice.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Intraplanetary said:

But we have bodies? Or they are just an illusion?

In a dream, is the body real?

No. It's imaginary.

Your physical body is actually just a dense form of imagination. Note: I'm not saying that your idea of having a body is imaginary. I am saying your actual body is imaginary. If you look at your hand long enough you will realize it is imaginary.

You are imagining the entire backstory of your life right this second. Your parents, all your childhood memories, all your past trauma, and your birth of course as a human. All of it is imagined by you NOW

You have a body in the sense that you are imagining it right now. But you can also stop imagining it -- at which point it will disappear. Of course the ego does not have voluntary control over how the body is imagined. So you cannot just imagine yourself with 5 nipples and it happens. No. Ego doesn't not control that. God is imagining that you have 2 nipples.

[seeking_brilliance]

@Nahm

 

I'm guilty of wanting to praise 'you' as well. @Nahm 

like whatever, can you please be over there so I have something to praise? Thank you ?? I'll pretend I'm right here. 

Actually maybe I should stop speaking ?

Either way, gratitude all around. ?

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Great. Thanks, yada yada. lol. 

Notice there’s no me that came from. 

REALLY notice.

Edited January 7, 2021 by seeking_brilliance

[Intraplanetary]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are imagining the entire backstory of your life right this second. Your parents, all your childhood memories, all your past trauma, and your birth of course as a human. All of it is imagined by you NOW

But the birth still happened, right? That's how I came about as this body?

It's just that all of this had happened within this imaginary reality we call life?

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You have a body in the sense that you are imagining it right now. But you can also stop imagining it -- at which point it will disappear. Of course the ego does not have voluntary control over how the body is imagined. So you cannot just imagine yourself with 5 nipples and it happens. No. Ego doesn't not control that. God is imagining that you have 2 nipples.

This is very very helpful. I actually remember when I experienced ego-death. It wasn't only my identity that died but the whole reality merged into the void. When I came back I didn't realise I have a body... I had to touch and see myself to rediscover I have a body. 

 

[Star]

I don't think I was born... but that's the last thing that concerns me... 

I need to organise my thoughts and see, with all the things that I know now, how I will deal with life from now on. 

My world came upside down,, for the right reason of course, but still, it's not easy to reorganise everything and rebuild everything from scratch... 

Well if it was really from scratch it would had been much easier, I have to get rid first off all my old beliefs and that's the hardest part. 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Intraplanetary said:

But the birth still happened, right?

Haha!

"Something happened" = "I imagine it did"

What you're not grasping yet is that IMAGINATION = REALITY

Quote

That's how I came about as this body?

That's the backstory you invented to explain the present infinite unknown.

Quote

It's just that all of this had happened within this imaginary reality we call life?

It works exactly like in a dream. Whatever questions you have, ask it of your dreams. "Is that dog in my dream real? Does it exist when I'm not sleeping?"

 

[Tim R]

10 hours ago, Intraplanetary said:

@Tim R Do you realise that yourself? How does it make you feel?

Very light and easy-going.

[Dazgwny]

What @Leo Gura is say here is true. After a series of awakenings I’m left in no doubt what so ever this is the case. I’ve also found making comparisons with the dream state a tremendous help down the road. Your nightly dreams are a great way to come to some realisations. Especially if you can get lucid in them. By being lucid you can really begin to delve into the mysteries of how imagination can work. I’ve been dreaming a normal dream, with its narrative and nonsense backstory, that of which is totally out of sync with my waking state life, and been completely immersed in it, then during it became lucid and realised the bullshit going on it. You can then use this lucid state to investigate just what’s going on. The more lucid you can become and more control you can get over the entire dream the easier this becomes. To control the entire thing takes a lot of practice though, most times you just find yourself lucid in your imagined surroundings, but you can learn. Before becoming lucid you believe in your body as real, your birth as real in the dream, your not even questioning it your just dreaming away. Once lucid you can realise the bullshit of it all. Life is definitely running in a very similar way, just at a higher level. Where as god controls this and your ego doesn’t, the sleeping dream state can be controlled by the ego. In a sense it’s like a mini lower level where the ego can play God. That’s my current understanding anyway from my own experiences and I’m not coming across anything that’s suggesting otherwise. Although always open to have my paradigms shattered