Are psychedelics ULTIMATELY a distraction?

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Eren Eeager said:

@Leo Gura What keeps you from dying? 

Your own need for survival what else?

[Eren Eeager]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Your own need for survival what else?

So you back off because it is to painful to access a higher state or by choice?

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

I have determined mahasamadhi is impossible because causing emotional harm to your family members through suicide under the premise that something good will happen to you. It is selfish.

You are creating a human construct of beliefs and values. 

[AtheisticNonduality]

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's just an excuse you imagined so that you remain inside the dream.

Realize deeper that your family and their suffering is just a dream you are hallucinating to keep yourself away from Infinite Love.

What that is, is just fear of Infinite Love and formlessness.

Once you are dead, your family will no longer exist.

Why would the enlightenment and deconstruction of your imaginary mind be more important than that of your imaginary family members? I see the people that believe in mahasamadhi have a bias in their thinking.

[Inliytened1]

11 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Why would the enlightenment and deconstruction of your imaginary mind be more important than that of your imaginary family members? I see the people that believe in mahasamadhi have a bias in their thinking.

 

To favor one state over another would be creating a duality ironically

 

[AtheisticNonduality]

33 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

You are creating a human construct of beliefs and values. 

Eh, no. If some tribesman attempts enlightenment through human sacrifice or some other means that causes harm, it won't work. Same thing with mahasamadhi. This is metaphysical.

[Forestluv]

35 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Eh, no. If some tribesman attempts enlightenment through human sacrifice or some other means that causes harm, it won't work. Same thing with mahasamadhi. This is metaphysical.

Within the construct you are creating, sure. Another way to explore is to exit human constructs and see what happens. Yet this involves deep letting go and entering another consciousness, which most minds are unwilling / unable to do. 

[ChickenFeathers]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

But even then, you will fall out of that state once you stop the retreat. Changing one's baseline is the hardest thing.

@Leo Gura then whats the point of doing this or other techniques at all if your baseline doesn't change?

[Recursoinominado]

@Leo Gura So, realistically, if I were to reach basic enlightenment (not necessarily full blown omniscient God mode) without psychedelics, what level of spiritual work I would have to do? 

I am not yet interested in Ultimate Truth  but I want to live in a bliss state experiencing God and love 24/7 like a Indian Saint (Raman Maharshi or Anandamayi Ma).

Edited January 8, 2021 by Recursoinominado

[Javfly33]

@Recursoinominado Lol haha. Would you like also a ferrari and a hot witch gf?

[knakoo]

On 07/01/2021 at 7:27 AM, Zigzag Idiot said:

To me, one of the most beneficial experiences from psychedelic trips are what’s gotten rid of. Specifically, personality or ego structures that you might say become ruptured. The familiar comfortable way in which we have always framed the world cannot be fixed as before. My first nn dmt trip was fairly traumatic and uncomfortable but that played a crucial role in “killing” a part of me that would not have died otherwise. 
An analogous situation - A Friend of mine once said of a former girlfriend, “ she broke my heart and it was the best thing that ever happened to me.” Before that relationship, he was fairly cocky and a bit arrogant. After she “broke his heart’” he became quite a bit more gentle with people. He gained enormously in having empathy towards others.

This is a very good answer.

I will add that trips help massively to release trauma (or anything that you resisted emotionally in your life, aka energy blockages). The pain body is a huge distraction from presence and therefore emotional healing has a big impact on your baseline state of consciousness.

Edit : I will add we are all traumatised to some degree growing up. If someone thinks that healing trauma is not really a big issue for him/her, I would suggest to reconsider. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by knakoo

[knakoo]

On 07/01/2021 at 0:34 PM, Leo Gura said:

I have not found any methods that work well for me other than long and tedious-as-fuck full-time meditation retreats.

Realistically you need 100 hours straight of uninterrupted mindfulness concentration.

But even then, you will fall out of that state once you stop the retreat. Changing one's baseline is the hardest thing.

@Intraplanetary

Direct transmissions of non dual states of consciousness are in my experience the best way to increase your baseline state of consciousness. It is really amazing. Look on this site to learn more : https://www.venantwong.com (I am sure there are other modalities)

If you are the sensitive or empath type this can be incredibly life transforming. 

This is also a transmission of kundalini energy, progressively waking up your own kundalini energy at just the right pace for your energy system.

The whole process also has great synergy with psychedelic trips ! (at least in my experience)

@Space said "I should note that ever since having this 'energetic awakening' with 5-MeO, I get the vibratory body healing effects with all other psychedelics at any dose." I have the same vibratory body healing effect during trips since I started KAP (or pretty much anytime tensions appear in my body).

 

The Wim Hof method is also a powerful tool for raising consciousness. The growth you get from 5-10 min of ice showers every day is awesome ! (even better if you can do ice baths)

Edited January 8, 2021 by knakoo

[Enlightenment]

On 7.01.2021 at 0:34 PM, Leo Gura said:

I have not found any methods that work well for me other than long and tedious-as-fuck full-time meditation retreats.

Have you tried Transcendental Meditation (I'm well aware of TM cult and shady things going on there) technique? Some instructions for a different type of mantra meditation; TM is that ripples in a lake thing ~38:40

Shinzen Young about mantra practise vs mindfulness https://www.shinzen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/art_mantra.pdf

[Recursoinominado]

On 08/01/2021 at 0:32 PM, Javfly33 said:

@Recursoinominado Lol haha. Would you like also a ferrari and a hot witch gf?

I would like a Jeep and a hot tantric yoga teacher gf

[Mu_]

On 1/6/2021 at 6:28 PM, Skin-encapsulatedego said:

I must ask, what exactly do you keep from a psychedelic trip?  Yes, you experience the most profound of awakenings while the substance is within your system.  Though, afterwards, all you have is a memory of the ultra-high state of consciousness.  Any insights you gained are essentially no longer yours, as you do not currently possess the level of consciousness required to truly understand them.  

So, please extensively describe what you believe you keep from a psychedelic trip.  *I hope for this to be the main point of discussion. 

A more accurate conceptual framework of the world?  How helpful is the memory of a psychedelic trip to you at baseline consciousness?  Yes, Truth is Truth, irrespective for however short of a duration it is reached.  When it comes down to it should full devotion not be paid to manual practices to increase permanency (not ultimate permanency, of course) of consciousness?  Psychedelics thereby being almost a distraction to the real work? 

 

I refer here to using psychedelics to contemplate the nature of reality, not for psychotherapeutic purposes or other. 

Well, ULTIMATELY, there is just life, so no its not a distraction.

[ChickenFeathers]

23 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

 (I'm well aware of TM cult and shady things going on there)

Please explain "Shady." I practice TM, I feel the organization is very dogmatic and seems like everything is branded with "Maharishi" to it, even Asanas and Ayurveda. Lol. 

The technique, I feel, is amazing. Do you agree?

[Enlightenment]

@ChickenFeathers Technique is very good especially for people who have more trouble concentrating but TM is a cult. It's a very simple technique but they will claim that you have to learn it from their teacher and he will give you "special" mantra blah blah blah

They are money hungry $$$ 

[Carl-Richard]

On 7.1.2021 at 0:34 PM, Leo Gura said:

But even then, you will fall out of that state once you stop the retreat. Changing one's baseline is the hardest thing.

I have this weird intuition about how to frame it: that you're either born with enlightenment as a baseline, or you're not. Then as you grow up, you'll either run into things that obscure or unveil it. That is why some people awaken in an instant and why some people never awaken. 

Growing up always involves a certain degree of entanglement, so if you have a baseline of enlightenment, it will try to express itself through different avenues, like a deep longing for being or truth, through things like music, art, knowledge seeking. Any glimpses that will occur naturally, or through the experience of these different things at their peek, will invoke a feeling of a deep nostalgia, because it's where you come from: it's your baseline.

The reason I see this connection is because the more I enter awareness, the more these things (music, art, knowledge) open up to me, and the more they make sense to me. It makes me see directly how the artist, musician or wise man is interacting with it. So, if these things are present, it's all up to the process of untangling (which can either be very problematic or just a knot away).

[Jacobsrw]

On 07/01/2021 at 9:28 AM, Skin-encapsulatedego said:

I must ask, what exactly do you keep from a psychedelic trip?  Yes, you experience the most profound of awakenings while the substance is within your system.  Though, afterwards, all you have is a memory of the ultra-high state of consciousness.  Any insights you gained are essentially no longer yours, as you do not currently possess the level of consciousness required to truly understand them.  

So, please extensively describe what you believe you keep from a psychedelic trip.  *I hope for this to be the main point of discussion. 

A more accurate conceptual framework of the world?  How helpful is the memory of a psychedelic trip to you at baseline consciousness?  Yes, Truth is Truth, irrespective for however short of a duration it is reached.  When it comes down to it should full devotion not be paid to manual practices to increase permanency (not ultimate permanency, of course) of consciousness?  Psychedelics thereby being almost a distraction to the real work? 

 

I refer here to using psychedelics to contemplate the nature of reality, not for psychotherapeutic purposes or other. 

One answer. The propensity of a social stigma.

Remove society and its manipulative conditioning and I almost guarantee the average joe would entertain a psychedelic experience.

I for one was hesitant years ago purely off the premise my environment shunned them. It took me 3 years to convince myself to experiment with them.

Not only can I now see their benefit but the crude game that’s being played at a macro level in order to conceal the illusion of society itself.

They are a tool and if used as such can produce profound things.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Jacobsrw