Trump Supporters Storming The Capitol! - MAGA Coup Mega-Thread

[Anderz]

@Forestluv I heard that the Trump team has filed far fewer than 60 lawsuits. Most of those lawsuits are filed by citizens and others, not by the Trump team.

[Rilles]

7 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

That's a big mistake, because it had the name "socialist" in it, that didn't mean it was socialist. I noticed that big error in various Americans who think that's right.

It is not, the Nazi party had nothing to do with real socialism.

Hitler purged both communists and socialists. Hitler was not Left-Wing haha. 

"German communists, socialists and trade unionistswere among the earliest domestic opponents of Nazism[51] and they were also among the first to be sent to concentration camps. Adolf Hitler claimed that communism was a Jewish ideology which the Nazis called "Judeo-Bolshevism". Fear of communist agitation was used to justify the Enabling Act of 1933, the law which gave Hitler plenary powers. Hermann Göring later testified at the Nuremberg Trials that the Nazis' willingness to repress German communists prompted President Paul von Hindenburg and the German elite to cooperate with the Nazis. The first concentration camp was built at Dachau in March 1933 and its original purpose was to imprison German communists, socialists, trade unionists and others who opposed the Nazis.[52]Communists, social democrats and other political prisoners were forced to wear red triangles."

From Wikipedia

Edited January 9, 2021 by Rilles

[abrakamowse]

5 minutes ago, Anderz said:

William Binney said that there were far more votes than registered voters and articles confirming his claim.

That was debunked long time ago...

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/23/facebook-posts/bogus-analysis-leads-ridiculous-claim-about-biden-/

[Leo Gura]

45 minutes ago, trenton said:

I would like to know how call it when one side is clearly better.  If I say Trump is clearly far worse than Biden, I will sound biased in this judgement.  People will tell you that you are the biased one.  Is it possible to not sound biased in these conclusions in spite of all of the false equivalences being drawn?

Yes, of course because the ego-mind always projects its biases out into the world. The ego-mind cannot admit its own selfisness to itself therefore it is always looking to blame them on someone else.

So when you tell a MAGA idiot that he is being biased, his ego will of course just accuse you of being the biased one for not validating his worldview. Because the MAGA biases are so deeply internalized and their level of cognitive development has no intellectual integrity. This means MAGA people don't really care about truth, they are just acting out their emotional attachments. They are not interested in self-reflection which is necessary to identify one's own biases. And that's because anyone who cared about truth would never become a MAGA to begin with. MAGA people, by definition, must be running on emotional and ideological attachments because that's the only kind of mind that would idolize Trump.

See, if you told Hitler than he is biased against Jews he would just accuse you of being biased against Germans for not wanting to exterminate the Jews. Because in his mind to not hate Jews is to be biased.

All bias is relative and subjective. You can hold and justify absolutely any bias you want as long as you're willing to employ various ego defense mechanisms to maintain the illusion.

[Forestluv]

16 minutes ago, Anderz said:

@Forestluv I heard that the Trump team has filed far fewer than 60 lawsuits.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/trump-election-court-losses-electoral-college

19 minutes ago, Anderz said:

I have seen a lot of what seems to be credible evidence of massive voting fraud such as large statistical anomalies and William Binney said that there were far more votes than registered voters and articles confirming his claim. 

Please by mindful of posting debunked claims of widespread fraud and conspiracy theories. Double check what you are see on your social media with a wider range of sources.

19 minutes ago, Anderz said:

Was there massive voting fraud? I don't know, but I would like to see more investigations into it.

As described above, claims of widespread fraud has already been extensively examined by Trump-appointed judges, Republican election officials, Republican governors, Trump’s justice department and Trump’s cyber security team. There is unanimous agreement by all Republican officials that claims of widespread fraud are bogus. 

[abrakamowse]

The problem is that any proof you sent to those MAGA nut jobs is that they will say... "That's Fake News" But then, they go and feed themselves with information from websites like Infowars, Alex Jones, the Gateway Pundit, Breitbart, etc etc... that are far worse than the mainstream media...

So funny...

Edited January 9, 2021 by abrakamowse

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

The problem is that any proof you sent to those MAGA nut jobs is that they will say... "That's Fake News" But then, they go and feed themselves with information from websites like Infowars, Alex Jones, the Gateway Pundit, Breitbart, etc etc...

So funny...

It's confirmation bias 101.

When you believe a thing strongly enough, your mind will only see and acknowledge the evidence that validates your beliefs, regardless of how false they are. All disconfirming evidence will simply be denied or reframed.

Which is why right-wingers are spreading this stupid rumor that Jan 6th was organized by Antifi.

Which is why conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones love to notion of a "false flag" operation. You can use the false flag excuse any time you see evidence that contradicts your beliefs. "Oh, that's just a false flag operation."

"Oh, you're saying that pedophiles aren't running the government? That means you must be a pedophile yourself because obvious pedophiles are running the government so you must be covering for them." << That's their logic.

[abrakamowse]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

It's confirmation bias 101.

Exactly! That's what makes me think that is more difficult to "fight" those false news in the sense that as you said, the ego is super sneaky.

They will create any self confirmation to preserve its false beliefs.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

Exactly! That's what makes me think that is more difficult to "fight" those false news in the sense that as you said, the ego is super sneaky.

They will create any self confirmation to preserve its false beliefs.

Of course.

What people fundamentally don't understand is that the mind's capacity for denying reality is infinite.

You could believe that the sun doesn't exist. And when someone walks you outside and points at the sun, your mind could respond: "Well, sure, that looks like the sun, but it's actually just an illusion put there to fool me." In this case there is nothing you can do to "prove" otherwise.

Any claim about reality can be held true come what may as long as you are willing to do mental gymnastics. Proof is literally impossible without one's consent and participation. Proving a thing is only possible assuming the person has some modicum of desire for truth. If they have no desire, proof is impossible. And MAGA has zero desire for truth so they are royally fucked.

[Anderz]

@Forestluv Notice "and his allies" in relation to the 60 lawsuits. I can't find the exact number that the Trump team has filed. Also, Sidney Powell was removed from the Trump team. I think it's too much spin to say that Trump has filed all those lawsuits.

[Hatfort]

54 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Hatfort

   Future Historians will have a field day reviewing Trump and his administration. 

They will say: What the fuck they were thinking when they elected this clown in 2016?

The man wearing horns has been arrested. He proudly published his name on Twitter, he sees himself as a real patriot fighting for the rightful president. Some Republicans were shamelessly blaming Antifa for this, without providing any real evidence, what a surprise, and this guy was pointed as one of them. Of course, this wasn't done by Antifa, those are MAGA people 100%, this guy must have felt insulted, so he had to come out. The right has a problem now when they point the left as the violents against liberty or whatever they say. The problem is called January 6, 2021. There was more evidence before, but this is like the cherry on the top of the cake. A huge cherry.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Hatfort

[Forestluv]

11 minutes ago, Anderz said:

@Forestluv Notice "and his allies" in relation to the 60 lawsuits. I can't find the exact number that the Trump team has filed. Also, Sidney Powell was removed from the Trump team. I think it's too much spin to say that Trump has filed all those lawsuits.

Trump-appointed judges, Trump’s cyber security team, Trump’s Justice department, Republican election officials and Republican Governors have extensively examined the claims and have unanimously declared there was no widespread fraud. I’m not buying that there was a massive conspiracy within the Republican Party to deny Trump. However, I do acknowledge that there are incidents of fraud in every election and I support measures to prevent fraud as well as voter suppression. 

It looks like you are still engaging with debunked claims of widespread fraud and conspiracy theories. I’m not.

[Danioover9000]

@DocWatts

37 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Hitler was in no way, shape or form a Leftist. This is a profound misunderstanding of literally everything about Hitler and the Nazis. The Socialist part of National Socialism was there purely for marketing, the same way that the world Republic is used in The People's Republic of China. The reason for this is because Socialist Parties were popular at the time, and the Nazis cynically used this in their bid to rise to power and then end Democracy.

The number of people with no knowledge of history who believe that Hitler was a Leftist is stupefying.

   While I do see that the Nazi movement co-opted the word 'socialist', they do share that aspect with left-wing parties, that they are smaller compared to the main establishment at the time, and had similar radical views of shaping the future of people. However, The Nazi movement are too radical and had ethnic national views, unlike their left-wing counter parts.

   Hitler, the person, did exhibit characteristics similar to a person who's part of a left-wing party: He was a N.E.E.T, which some leftists, the younger ones, were like that at the time. He was also self centered and entitled, which some younger leftists do feel they are entitled to an over estimated amount. Hitler had a passion for art, and made attempts to pursue that career, which people on the left-wing have a higher percentage with interests in artistry which is a good thing. Hitler is a very good orator, and there are some really good speakers in the left too today. I could be wrong, and there are exceptions to what I've listed, as leftists in Hitler's time are not limited to pursuing paintings/arts, but some pursued engineering, and some also were not N.E.E.T.

   Hitler's difference's with the left are that he coordinated a coup, with the national socialist party, and took over the German Government. He also had ethnic nationalistic views on the Jews, and leftists don't generally have racial views like that, although I can't say for sure if it's mostly Hitler or mostly came from the national socialist party. He also isn't a leftist, as he didn't like how Stalin took over, and had a version of society that was far different than Hitler's vision of his society. And Stalin was a leftist far more so than Hitler, doesn't mean that he was harmless, he actually viscously manipulated his way into the communist movement in Russia, even later turning on Lenin. 

   The difference between the people's Republic of China and the National socialist movement is that China's was communistic movement, which was far more opportunistic in taking over, while the National Socialist party similarly took over the government, through a coup. Interestingly, both socio-political climates, and economy, were very similar in that it was very harsh, people were starving, struggling for employment, both had similar degrees in injustices, and so on.

   I think the main misunderstanding came from how the movement started, and was compared to the traditionalist government at that time, and the radical views expressed. It might've been the size of the starting party as well.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Danioover9000

[Rilles]

5 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@DocWatts

   While I do see that the Nazi movement co-opted the word 'socialist', they do share that aspect with left-wing parties, that they are smaller compared to the main establishment at the time, and had similar radical views of shaping the future of people. However, The Nazi movement are too radical and had ethnic national views, unlike their left-wing counter parts.

   Hitler, the person, did exhibit characteristics similar to a person who's part of a left-wing party: He was a N.E.E.T, which some leftists, the younger ones, were like that at the time. He was also self centered and entitled, which some younger leftists do feel they are entitled to an over estimated amount. Hitler had a passion for art, and made attempts to pursue that career, which people on the left-wing have a higher percentage with interests in artistry which is a good thing. Hitler is a very good orator, and there are some really good speakers in the left too today. I could be wrong, and there are exceptions to what I've listed, as leftists in Hitler's time are not limited to pursuing paintings/arts, but some pursued engineering, and some also were not N.E.E.T.

   Hitler's difference's with the left are that he coordinated a coup, with the national socialist party, and took over the German Government. He also had ethnic nationalistic views on the Jews, and leftists don't generally have racial views like that, although I can't say for sure if it's mostly Hitler or mostly came from the national socialist party. He also isn't a leftist, as he didn't like how Stalin took over, and had a version of society that was far different than Hitler's vision of his society. And Stalin was a leftist far more so than Hitler, doesn't mean that he was harmless, he actually viscously manipulated his way into the communist movement in Russia, even later turning on Lenin. 

   The difference between the people's Republic of China and the National socialist movement is that China's was communistic movement, which was far more opportunistic in taking over, while the National Socialist party similarly took over the government, through a coup. Interestingly, both socio-political climates, and economy, were very similar in that it was very harsh, people were starving, struggling for employment, both had similar degrees in injustices, and so on.

   I think the main misunderstanding came from how the movement started, and was compared to the traditionalist government at that time, and the radical views expressed. It might've been the size of the starting party as well.

Artistic, entitled and good at speaking makes you a lefty? Thanks for this enlightening political analysis, I did not know that. 

[Anderz]

@abrakamowse The source they used for that "fact check" is from some single individual with an insecure website. Seems shaky to me. With so many U.S. citizens having doubt about the election I think it would be useful to do a thorough forensic investigation of the election. That way people will feel confidence in the 2020 election and in future elections.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Anderz

[Forestluv]

30 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

The problem is that any proof you sent to those MAGA nut jobs is that they will say... "That's Fake News" But then, they go and feed themselves with information from websites like Infowars, Alex Jones, the Gateway Pundit, Breitbart, etc etc... that are far worse than the mainstream media...

So funny...

As well anyone supportive of MAGA that contradicts any point in the story gets labeled as “deep state” or a traitor. Pence had been 100% supportive of Trump for five years , even through Trump’s most egregious acts. Yet the mob chanted “hang Pence” as they stormed into the capital building.

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, Anderz said:

With so many U.S. citizens having doubt about the election I think it would be useful to do a thorough forensic investigation of the election. That way people will feel confidence in the 2020 election and in future elections.

That would only support the manufacture of false claims and conspiracy theories. If people can make up any BS unsubstantiated claims they want and get a “thorough forensic investigation” there would be no functioning government. Everyone would be making up BS claims against there adversaries and if every BS claim got a “thorough forensic investigation”, the entire government would spend all there time chasing absurd BS claims.

As well, this highlights the importance of moderation / regulation on social media and news. If someone can easily spread misinformation online and convince millions of people of BS and conspiracy theories to the point they are willing to riot and kill people, that becomes a problem. Imagine if you and I had the power to convince 50 million people that people with blue eyes are aliens sent from the planet Xenon. These 50 million gullible people become extremely fearful and angry. After conning them, we fundraise 100s of millions off of them to stop the blue-eyed invasion of America. Then we threaten to harm blue-eyed people and demand “thorough forensic investigations” into whether they are aliens. Yet of course no one brainwashed would accept any evidence that they aren’t alien threats.

[Anderz]

@Forestluv I see you point. And even if there really was massive voting fraud, and if it was officially proved, that could have a devastating effect for the whole nation. Dicey situation. And also, many people would probably not trust the investigations. What a mess! I take my suggestion back.

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, Anderz said:

@Forestluv And even if there really was massive voting fraud, and if it was officially proved, that could have a devastating effect for the whole nation. Dicey situation. And also, many people would probably not trust the investigations. What a mess! 

If there was an election with actual widespread fraud, it would be important for democracy to expose it and eliminate it. Yet a losing candidate should not be able to make up BS claims of widespread fraud and create an insurrection to overturn a result they don’t like. That is harmful to democracy.

[DocWatts]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@DocWatts

   While I do see that the Nazi movement co-opted the word 'socialist', they do share that aspect with left-wing parties, that they are smaller compared to the main establishment at the time, and had similar radical views of shaping the future of people. However, The Nazi movement are too radical and had ethnic national views, unlike their left-wing counter parts.

   Hitler, the person, did exhibit characteristics similar to a person who's part of a left-wing party: He was a N.E.E.T, which some leftists, the younger ones, were like that at the time. He was also self centered and entitled, which some younger leftists do feel they are entitled to an over estimated amount. Hitler had a passion for art, and made attempts to pursue that career, which people on the left-wing have a higher percentage with interests in artistry which is a good thing. Hitler is a very good orator, and there are some really good speakers in the left too today. I could be wrong, and there are exceptions to what I've listed, as leftists in Hitler's time are not limited to pursuing paintings/arts, but some pursued engineering, and some also were not N.E.E.T.

   Hitler's difference's with the left are that he coordinated a coup, with the national socialist party, and took over the German Government. He also had ethnic nationalistic views on the Jews, and leftists don't generally have racial views like that, although I can't say for sure if it's mostly Hitler or mostly came from the national socialist party. He also isn't a leftist, as he didn't like how Stalin took over, and had a version of society that was far different than Hitler's vision of his society. And Stalin was a leftist far more so than Hitler, doesn't mean that he was harmless, he actually viscously manipulated his way into the communist movement in Russia, even later turning on Lenin. 

   The difference between the people's Republic of China and the National socialist movement is that China's was communistic movement, which was far more opportunistic in taking over, while the National Socialist party similarly took over the government, through a coup. Interestingly, both socio-political climates, and economy, were very similar in that it was very harsh, people were starving, struggling for employment, both had similar degrees in injustices, and so on.

   I think the main misunderstanding came from how the movement started, and was compared to the traditionalist government at that time, and the radical views expressed. It might've been the size of the starting party as well.

Hitler didn't take over the government in a coup, at least not in the traditional sense that you're likely referring to. They tried going that route in the Beer Hall Putsch of 1923, which ended in fiasco and embarrassment for the Nazis, who afterwards decided that using electoral politics to gain power and end Democracy would be more successful. The widespread suffering caused by the Great Depression, which hit Germany especially hard due to the Treaty of Versailles and also to the withdrawal of the American financial support which was keeping the German economy afloat, finally presented conditions which were conducive to Nazi political aims.

The Nazi Party won enough seats in the 1932 election to make them the largest party in the Reichstag, allowing Hitler to become chancellor, ruling alongside president Paul Von Hindenburg (the Conservative former military dictator of Germany during WW1, who hated Hitler, yet decided to appoint him chancellor under political pressure in the mistaken notion that moderates in the government would restrain him). It was the burning of the Reichstag building  in 1933 that provided Hitler with opportunity to declare a State of Emergency which ended all civil liberties and banned other political parties in Germany, putting the last nail in the coffin of the Weimar Republic. When Hindenburg died in 1934, the last person who could have potentially opposed Hitler was gone, and his consolidation of political power complete.

As to Hitler's political beliefs, he despised the Social Democracy of the Weimar Republic, which for its brief existence was one of the most Progressive and Left leaning Democracies in the world up until that point. Just because he shares similar personality defects to other SD-Red leaning individuals (such as Stalin), does not make him a Leftist. 

Edited January 9, 2021 by DocWatts