Girls struggle more in daiting than we realize

[Moon]

8 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I grew up ugly so because of that I have made peace with the possibility of dying alone.

Well good thing you're a stunning (& wise) girl now 

34 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I'm not chasing and obsessing. I'm just living my life, minding my own business, and finding random things, topics, and people who interests me.  

Fair enough and good for you!  You're super young and it's something you could put more effort into the future if you wanted to anyway. 

 

 

 

[MrBON]

@soos_mite_ah Actually that attitude of being sweet and innocent is a huge turn on for a lot of guys

I respect your choices though, do what is best for you

[Lionhead]

This is an interesting thread. As a guy, I do feel guilt because in the past I have always held a negative, incel view towards women.

As I have matured, I learned that you shouldn't treat women as a means to satisfy your sexual desires. I have taken on celibacy (as in abstaining from pornography and masturbation) and that has changed my attitude towards women. I do believe men's toxic ways are rooted in masturbation and porn.

Women don't want to be viewed as pieces of meat. The only reason that you (if you're a man) gets nervous when talking to women is because you're treating the conversation like a potential sexual encounter. It's better to take sex out of the equation and just talk to women like their just people, in a relaxed manner without an agenda. You just make friends and if it escalates into a sexual relationship then that's alright.

Although personally I don't have much success with women at all in any sense. I'm just as much an incel as anyone. But I'm learning the proper ways of thinking. I'm a bit too strange of a person to be very attractive I imagine, in spite of the fact that I consider myself one of the best looking men I know. I love my face, body, and voice.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Lionhead

[soos_mite_ah]

 Thank you so much  @Moon 

15 hours ago, Lionhead said:

Women don't want to be viewed as pieces of meat. The only reason that you (if you're a man) gets nervous when talking to women is because you're treating the conversation like a potential sexual encounter. It's better to take sex out of the equation and just talk to women like their just people, in a relaxed manner without an agenda. You just make friends and if it escalates into a sexual relationship then that's alright.

Exactly!!! This is 100% accurate. From my experience, this goes for flirting in general. Even if you are a woman, going into a situation with the expectation of sex can make things awkward at best and downright creepy worst. And most people can't sense if intentions are off even if they can't exactly put their finger on it. 

My personal rule of flirting is to keep it light hearted and don't get too intense, especially with someone you don't know, because you don't know what the other person might be feeling/ thinking. It's just out of consideration. The best form of flirting, regardless of gender, is rooted in empathy for the other person and wanting them feel good about themselves, not self interest.

15 hours ago, Lionhead said:

Although personally I don't have much success with women at all in any sense. I'm just as much an incel as anyone. But I'm learning the proper ways of thinking. I'm a bit too strange of a person to be very attractive I imagine, in spite of the fact that I consider myself one of the best looking men I know. I love my face, body, and voice.

Honestly, even if you haven't had much success, you are ahead of a lot of men. Starting with your way of thinking working on that along with your self confidence/ self perception is the best place to begin. 

Edited January 9, 2021 by soos_mite_ah

[MrBON]

@soos_mite_ah

3 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Exactly!!! This is 100% accurate. From my experience, this goes for flirting in general. Even if you are a woman, going into a situation with the expectation of sex can make things awkward at best and downright creepy worst. And most people can't sense if intentions are off even if they can't exactly put their finger on it. 

This is very bad advice if you are a pussy and scared to make moves like most guys that complain about not getting girls. Personally i act like you are saying and always get friend zoned.  I have been friend zoned by girls that found me legit handsome, smart and interesting. Why? Because i do not make any moves because i am treating it as a friendly chit chat. Act like a friend= get treated like a friend!

I am pretty sure most successful guys that get hot girls don't talk to girls like a goody guy

but flirt, makes moves, escalate etc.  Now ofc there should be some balance about this but for people that struggle with making moves, they need to go on the "making moves" side of the equation more.

3 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

My personal rule of flirting is to keep it light hearted and don't get too intense, especially with someone you don't know, because you don't know what the other person might be feeling/ thinking. It's just out of consideration. The best form of flirting, regardless of gender, is rooted in empathy for the other person and wanting them feel good about themselves, not self interest.

This is all good and true but again, guys that suck with girls suck partly because they never make moves on them. That gentle flirting is the way to go for specific girls on specific locations like university class, gym etc. In a night club or with slutty girls you go harder than that. Also if guys suck with making moves it is better to train them to become overly bold for a while so they can find a healthy balance. If they already had that balance between when to flirty lightly and when to make moves they would not be here complaining about not getting girls

[LostStudent]

@MrBON

55 minutes ago, MrBON said:

This is very bad advice if you are a pussy and scared to make moves like most guys that complain about not getting girls. Personally i act like you are saying and always get friend zoned.  I have been friend zoned by girls that found me legit handsome, smart and interesting. Why? Because i do not make any moves because i am treating it as a friendly chit chat. Act like a friend= get treated like a friend!

Can you clarify what moves mean in this context?

Edited January 9, 2021 by LostStudent

[MrBON]

@LostStudent No touching, no flirting , no showing interest and they thinking you just want to be friends with them and are not interested.

Edited January 10, 2021 by MrBON

[LostStudent]

@MrBON Oh I see. I agree that if you treat someone like a friend you'll probably end up as friends but I feel like it's so much easier to be straight forward instead of using these moves. Whether you want a relationship or just casual sex, I feel it's better to make your intentions clear so both people can either proceed or move on. I'm personally horrible at flirting so unless guys are coming on really strong or being overly sexual, it's easy for me to misinterpret their flirting as friendly banter. I prefered the guys I encountered in university who asked me flat out if I wanted to being friends with benefits more than the ones who pretended to be my friend for a while before disappearing. I'm never going to tell someone I see as a friend that I'm not romantically interested in them, in my mind we're friends because we both want to be friends. This is different if I'm interested in them.

2 hours ago, MrBON said:

I have been friend zoned by girls that found me legit handsome, smart and interesting. Why? Because i do not make any moves because i am treating it as a friendly chit chat.

I have plenty of guy friends that I find handsome, smart, and interesting. The reason I'm just friends with them isn't because they didn't make any moves on me, it's because I only want to be friends with them. If there's someone in my life I'm interested in who's handsome, smart, interesting, and they weren't making any moves on me, I would just approach them and ask them if they felt the same way about me. Maybe some girls are too shy to do this but I think you're overthinking a bit here. Keep in mind that this is all based on my personal experiences though, I could easily be wrong.

Edited January 10, 2021 by LostStudent

[soos_mite_ah]

3 hours ago, MrBON said:

@soos_mite_ah

This is very bad advice if you are a pussy and scared to make moves like most guys that complain about not getting girls. Personally i act like you are saying and always get friend zoned.  I have been friend zoned by girls that found me legit handsome, smart and interesting. Why? Because i do not make any moves because i am treating it as a friendly chit chat. Act like a friend= get treated like a friend!

I mean you can still lead with kindness and not be overtly sexual. You can tell a girl she is beautiful, that you like her shirt or something and create a conversation with her by asking her if she want's to go out some time. Also body language and touch is key. Those are just examples but you can be direct and subtle at the same time. If you aren't direct, you can end up in the friendzone like you said  but if you don't meet that with a sense of subtleness, it can come off as creepy. Granted I can only say so much because I am a woman and I'm not exactly in the same situation, but I'm speaking from experience in the sense of I know what girls like and I have experience the guys that have approached me and by comparing them, I have found a trend in regards to what often works.  

3 hours ago, MrBON said:

This is all good and true but again, guys that suck with girls suck partly because they never make moves on them. That gentle flirting is the way to go for specific girls on specific locations like university class, gym etc. In a night club or with slutty girls you go harder than that.

I can see if you're at a night club how things might be different. Not sure how you can tell if a girl is slutty if you are just approaching her for the first time. Even then, respect is key to not look like an asshole. 

3 hours ago, MrBON said:

Also if guys suck with making moves it is better to train them to become overly bold for a while so they can find a healthy balance. If they already had that balance between when to flirty lightly and when to make moves they would not be here complaining about not getting girls

Totally agree. Advice is very dependent on context and where a person is at. My only concern is that you don't want to end up swinging too far in the other direction.  

[MrBON]

@soos_mite_ah

2 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

mean you can still lead with kindness and not be overtly sexual. You can tell a girl she is beautiful, that you like her shirt or something and create a conversation with her by asking her if she want's to go out some time. Also body language and touch is key. Those are just examples but you can be direct and subtle at the same time. If you aren't direct, you can end up in the friendzone like you said  but if you don't meet that with a sense of subtleness, it can come off as creepy

I mean you will not tell her "lets fuck" and touch her ass you know. I meant basically showing signs, some compliments, deep eye contact, playful touching and slowly building it to a kiss if she reprocitates. Stuff like this, also messing around with her her a bit in a non mean way aka tasing.

This is what i was referring to mostly. On a night club things are different ofc.

[soos_mite_ah]

24 minutes ago, LostStudent said:

I have plenty of guy friends that I find handsome, smart, and interesting. The reason I'm just friends with them isn't because they didn't make any moves on me, it's because I only want to be friends with them.

Same. I'm not always thinking about relationships. Sometimes I just want friends. And that isn't anything on the guy and what he did. It's not him, it's me lol. Or hell sometimes it's mutual and we just want to be friends and that's it. It ain't that deep. 

[MrBON]

@LostStudent

27 minutes ago, LostStudent said:

I have plenty of guy friends that I find handsome, smart, and interesting. The reason I'm just friends with them isn't because they didn't make any moves on me, it's because I only want to be friends with them.

Typical case of a girl being completely unconscious of what attracts her. You only want to be friends with them because of reasons. Unless you have personal problems at the given time then there are reasons why you "just want to be friends". If guy makes you feel a certain way you will be attracted to him and not want to be friends with him. Just like a guy will not want to be friends with a girl he sees that is super hot and cool.

[soos_mite_ah]

Just now, MrBON said:

I mean you will not tell her "lets fuck" and touch her ass you know.

I hope to god not. But I have seen how overt guys can be and I have run into guys like that before. And even as a touchy person, that's too much. 

1 minute ago, MrBON said:

I meant basically showing signs, some compliments, deep eye contact, playful touching and slowly building it to a kiss if she reprocitates. Stuff like this, also messing around with her her a bit in a non mean way aka tasing.

This is what i was referring to mostly. 

Yeah that stuff is fine. I guess I'm just concerned of people like you said going up to someone and saying "lets fuck" and touch their ass because they interpret being direct and sexual as such. There are a lot of guys who do interpret it like that and then we have to deal with creepy behavior. 

[MrBON]

@soos_mite_ah

If you are specifically looking for friends then that is another thing. But you cannot control your feelings. If a guy makes you feel a certain way you will not want him as just a friend. If it is mutual then okay.

See the response i just wrote to loststudent, it applies to what you said also.

[LostStudent]

@MrBON

24 minutes ago, MrBON said:

@LostStudent

Typical case of a girl being completely unconscious of what attracts her. You only want to be friends with them because of reasons.

I don't think this is necessarily true. I'm unconscious sometimes for why I'm attracted to one person more than another, but once I've established that I'm attracted to someone the decision for how I should proceed isn't usually an unconscious one. Some of those reasons might be personal issues like you mentioned above but the majority of the time I have a clear reason for why I want to remain friends with someone I'm physically attracted to. I'm quite young and I don't even enjoy the same foods I enjoyed last year so a big reason for me is that I feel like I'm putting a good friendship at jeopardy by persuing more if things are going well. Another big reason that I've noticed is that sometimes I'll be sexually attracted to someone and that will lead me to believe that we would be great for each other in a relationship. A funny phrase that I hear my guy friends use for this would be post nut clarity haha. Either way, even if girls are completely unconscious of what attracts them, I'm not saying making moves is bad but I don't think it's as reliable as a old fashioned talk. I'm just drawing from my personal experience when I say that I've missed many moves over the years and maybe it would be easier to do both those things.

Edited January 10, 2021 by LostStudent

[soos_mite_ah]

@MrBON Or maybe I think a guy is amazing but he isn't exactly my type.

I mean there guys who haven't approached me in a romantic way me but I fall for them anyway. 

[LostStudent]

@soos_mite_ah

28 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Same. I'm not always thinking about relationships. Sometimes I just want friends. And that isn't anything on the guy and what he did. It's not him, it's me lol. Or hell sometimes it's mutual and we just want to be friends and that's it. It ain't that deep. 

Yeah I see it the same way.

[MrBON]

@LostStudent You do realize this stuff is based on feelings not logic. A random nobody can come make you feel a certain way and you will get addicted to him. How do you think those charing guys in college or high school managed to sleep with everyone 

[LostStudent]

@MrBON

58 minutes ago, MrBON said:

@LostStudent A random nobody can come make you feel a certain way and you will get addicted to him.

I agree to some extent. I haven't been in a lot of relationships and none of them so far have been very serious so my experience is limited, but I've never been "addicted" to someone beyond immense sexual attraction. My inner dialogue in these cases has usually been something like "this guy's hot and he makes me feel good so I wouldn't mind sleeping with him, cool we even share a few interests". It sounds really shallow when I type it out like that but that's where my mind and priorities lie at this stage in my life. This kind of dialogue happens often but it doesn't mean I act on it each time, sometimes I'll see that it's a bad decision and shut it down. It could also be because my random nobody hasn't come yet.

58 minutes ago, MrBON said:

@LostStudentHow do you think those charing guys in college or high school managed to sleep with everyone 

I'm not sure but I had a friend like this who got tons of girls, it was probably because he was kind, attractive, and a good football player.

Edited January 10, 2021 by LostStudent

[Hardkill]

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Edited January 16, 2021 by Hardkill