Christians who think their religion is the absolute truth

[Nyseto]

I've conversed with many Christians. I've explained to them that if people from all walks of life just contemplated on God being love and freedom alone more so than the dogmatic ways of any religion, philosophy, science, or theory, they'd have a much higher understanding. All of them disagreed and said "You can call it what you want but blessing comes from the One true God." And then I said, "One true God, God with seven heads, I am that I am, Allahu Akbar, etc." Love is always the answer and even these are just words pointing to something beyond any agreeing or disagreeing." Some of them didn't like hearing that. I always like to mention that God has nothing to do with religion, religion is man made. You can follow any religion and read any book you want, but if you can't transcend any of it, you're only limiting yourself.

Thoughts?

 

[Synchronicity]

They were speaking of Christianity with certainty and you were speaking your point with certainty. Many on this forum would call those Christians unconscious fools while many on a Christian forum would call you a deceived fool. No specific answer here. Just brings up something to consider. 

[Nyseto]

2 minutes ago, Synchronicity said:

They were speaking of Christianity with certainty and you were speaking your point with certainty. Many on this forum would call those Christians unconscious fools while many on a Christian forum would call you a deceived fool. No specific answer here. Just brings up something to consider. 

Well not quite, I wasn't speaking with certainty because in the end I said that all my words are nothing compared to what I'm pointing to which is beyond agreeing and disagreeing. I always tell them "Don't get caught up in the words I'm saying, they are secondary." 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Nyseto

[Synchronicity]

Just now, Nyseto said:

Well not quite, I wasn't speaking with uncertainty because in the end I said that all my words are nothing compared to what I'm pointing to which is beyond agreeing and disagreeing.

I see what you’re saying. Though, that can still be considered somewhat of a meta-certainty. You’re speaking confidently about there being something beyond your words. 

[Leo Gura]

Simply stage Blue. Nothing new here.

[Nyseto]

Just now, Synchronicity said:

I see what you’re saying. Though, that can still be considered somewhat of a meta-certainty. You’re speaking confidently about there being something beyond your words. 

Well there is no other way to point to it better lol. I always end up contradicting myself. I'll say "There is no such thing as enlightenment, the appreciation of this fact is itself enlightenment." 

For example I say there is no "you" and then I say that the "no you" is "you". 

For example to you I would reply with "That something beyond my words is not really a something." It's impossible to put nonduality into words.

[SgtPepper]

You're speaking to individuals who have adopted an ideology first before having a mystical experience.

In my experience, If you're trying to get on common ground, you'd have to speak their language.

" Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love." - 1 John 4:7-21

I agree with you, by the way. You are speaking of the perennial philosophy. 

[Nyseto]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Simply parrotting stage Blue.

But the funny thing is, these people parroting blue are well aware of how many other people of the same category are hypocrites. They believe in God, yet act unconsciously outside of church. Do they ever stop to realize, "Hold on a minute here. There must be a difference between religion and spirituality." Or maybe they do realize it but their fear from their religion such as going to hell outweighs that realization.

[Danioover9000]

@Nyseto

10 minutes ago, Nyseto said:

I've conversed with many Christians. I've explained to them that if people from all walks of life just contemplated on God being love and freedom alone more so than the dogmatic ways of any religion, philosophy, science, or theory, they'd have a much higher understanding. All of them disagreed and said "You can call it what you want but blessing comes from the One true God." And then I said, "One true God, God with seven heads, I am that I am, Allahu Akbar, etc." Love is always the answer and even these are just words pointing to something beyond any agreeing or disagreeing." Some of them didn't like hearing that. I always like to mention that God has nothing to do with religion, religion is man made. You can follow any religion and read any book you want, but if you can't transcend any of it, you're only limiting yourself.

Thoughts?

 

   Nice, trap there, but I'll take the bait.

   Who are you talking to before? Egos that call themselves 'Christians', and what do they fear? losing their self reference point in existence, that a Christian self and Christian world offers.

   Appreciate that this identity is indoctrinated into them for years and years and decades. Non-duality for the majority is like walking on a bed of hot coals, it takes a lot of skill and preparation to handle spirituality. 

[Nyseto]

5 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

You're speaking to individuals who have adopted an ideology first before having a mystical experience.

In my experience, If you're trying to get on common ground, you'd have to speak their language.

" Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love." - 1 John 4:7-21

I agree with you, by the way. You are speaking of the perennial philosophy. 

And I have! Get this. Whenever I speak their language, they tell me I'm taking it out of context. For example, I'll say how the Bible says I am is the name of God and how Jesus says "the kingdom of heaven is inside you." They say, "Your faith is inside you but kingdom of heaven is up there." They say I pick and choose and twist the Bible to suit me. I tell them, if "I am" is the name of God, can you not say I am about yourself also? The moment they feel stumped, they take a second or two to find a way to go around lol. Sometimes I give up. 

Sometimes I ask them, "If you believe God is up there and you are limited, are you not denying the presence of God by saying you are separate from God which is everything?"

Edited January 6, 2021 by Nyseto

[Nyseto]

3 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Nyseto

   Nice, trap there, but I'll take the bait.

   Who are you talking to before? Egos that call themselves 'Christians', and what do they fear? losing their self reference point in existence, that a Christian self and Christian world offers.

   Appreciate that this identity is indoctrinated into them for years and years and decades. Non-duality for the majority is like walking on a bed of hot coals, it takes a lot of skill and preparation to handle spirituality. 

Wait hold on, what do you mean trap? 

[SgtPepper]

7 minutes ago, Nyseto said:

And I have! Get this. Whenever I speak their language, they tell me I'm taking it out of context. For example, I'll say how the Bible says I am is the name of God and how Jesus says "the kingdom of heaven is inside you." They say, your faith is inside you but kingdom of heaven is up there. They say I pick and choose and twist the Bible to suit me. 

 that's what they all say. You will just have to go deeper in your interpersonal discussion of Truth if they are willing, or else it will just be a model/belief battle ground.

I have been attacked for quoting saints, man because it's not biblical. People who actually followed Jesus and devoted their life to God. 

I just let it go and recognize everyone is on their own path, and it all leads to the same place. 

Edited January 6, 2021 by SgtPepper

[Synchronicity]

12 minutes ago, Nyseto said:

Well there is no other way to point to it better lol. I always end up contradicting myself. I'll say "There is no such thing as enlightenment, the appreciation of this fact is itself enlightenment." 

For example I say there is no "you" and then I say that the "no you" is "you". 

For example to you I would reply with "That something beyond my words is not really a something." It's impossible to put nonduality into words.

Yes, I understand but that’s not where the point I’m making lies. I’m not talking about what you’re saying being something. I’m simply stating that the Christians are just as confident in what they speak as you are in what you speak. Their pointers being nameable and yours being unnameable is besides the point. 

[Nyseto]

Just now, Synchronicity said:

Yes, I understand but that’s not where the point I’m making lies. I’m not talking about what you’re saying being something. I’m simply stating that the Christians are just as confident in what they speak as you are in what you speak. Their pointers being nameable and yours being unnameable is besides the point. 

Sure they are confident and I am confident about what we say. It all then boils down to who is actually seeing and experiencing the truth and who isn't. Nonduality can be parroted just as much as Christianity.

[Nyseto]

19 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

 that's what they all say. You will just have to go deeper in your interpersonal discussion of Truth if they are willing, or else it will just be a model/belief battle ground.

I have been attacked for quoting saints, man because it's not biblical. People who actually followed Jesus and devoted their life to God. 

I just let it go and recognize everyone is on their own path, and it all leads to the same place. 

You know what man, at the end of the day they deep down can see the hypocrisy of other Christians at the least. We've all been told something of great truth at one point and still tried to deny it on the spot. But that still didn't stop us from thinking about what that person said before going to bed. It's almost like even if they deny it on the spot, the seed can still be planted there like a thorn that can't get removed lol

Edited January 6, 2021 by Nyseto

[Synchronicity]

1 minute ago, Nyseto said:

Sure they are confident and I am confident about what we say. It all then boils down to who is actually seeing and experiencing the truth and who isn't. Nonduality can be parroted just as much as Christianity.

Exactly, yes. That’s all my contribution to the discussion was meant to say. Not to tell you that you’re wrong or they’re wrong. Just to be Open about that.

[Nyseto]

My brother in law is super Christian for example. He asked me two questions. "Do you believe in God?" I said, "Why believe when you can experience God?" Second question was "Ok what happens after you die?" I replied, "Death is the stripping away of everything that's not you." He had no more questions after that. Truth boils down to being at peace with yourself. Which is why the Bible describes the "Peace of God as surpassing all understanding." 

[Bodhitree]

45 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

 that's what they all say. You will just have to go deeper in your interpersonal discussion of Truth if they are willing, or else it will just be a model/belief battle ground.

I have been attacked for quoting saints, man because it's not biblical. People who actually followed Jesus and devoted their life to God. 

I just let it go and recognize everyone is on their own path, and it all leads to the same place. 

Yes, everyone is on their own path, and while all paths lead up the mountain, some go no higher than the foothills. Many Christians are trapped in their own belief system, and it takes a certain insight for them to release themselves out of it. 
 

I came across a story about a Dutch priest and mystic called Hein Thijssen. He first became a monk and then a priest, and after twenty years of being a priest he realised God was not who he thought he was. He gave up his priest’s robe, became a teacher, and age 80 published a book called Empty and Free about how he achieved an inner awakening. 
 

It makes you wonder what is the point arguing with those who are not ready to listen. You have to approach people in a very particular way if you want them to change their core beliefs, it is a very gradual process. 

[Bodhitree]

11 minutes ago, Nyseto said:

My brother in law is super Christian for example. He asked me two questions. "Do you believe in God?" I said, "Why believe when you can experience God?" Second question was "Ok what happens after you die?" I replied, "Death is the stripping away of everything that's not you." He had no more questions after that. Truth boils down to being at peace with yourself. Which is why the Bible describes the "Peace of God as surpassing all understanding." 

The Buddha once said, I will give you everything that you already are, and I will take away everything that you are not. The words ring clear and true today as the day they were spoken. 

[Nyseto]

9 minutes ago, Bodhitree said:

Yes, everyone is on their own path, and while all paths lead up the mountain, some go no higher than the foothills. Many Christians are trapped in their own belief system, and it takes a certain insight for them to release themselves out of it. 
 

I came across a story about a Dutch priest and mystic called Hein Thijssen. He first became a monk and then a priest, and after twenty years of being a priest he realised God was not who he thought he was. He gave up his priest’s robe, became a teacher, and age 80 published a book called Empty and Free about how he achieved an inner awakening. 
 

It makes you wonder what is the point arguing with those who are not ready to listen. You have to approach people in a very particular way if you want them to change their core beliefs, it is a very gradual process. 

Have you ever wondered that even though they aren't ready to listen, that it doesn't mean you still can't throw a wrench into their belief system that's too heavy to ignore? Osho loved this approach to rile and confuse people. They want to slam the door on you and you already unscrewed their hinges so the door falls ?

Edited January 6, 2021 by Nyseto