Question on J. Peterson

[Tim R]

3 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

It is like giving a gun to a monkey and asking "what is wrong about that? It is their own responsibility".

@StarStruck It is most certainly not like that. 

It takes 2 minutes of research to find out that you maybe shouldn't do psychedelics if you suspect your psyche to be fragile or unstable. 

There's always gonna be people who aren't cautious enough and therefore screw up somehow, but that's on them. Don't blame others. 

Leo doesn't give anybody "a gun". He talks about his experiences with psychedelics and gives advice. 

[JosephKnecht]

17 hours ago, Tim R said:

@JosephKnecht I also think he had some experiences, probably with psychedelics rather than without - his mind would've never shut up on its own, he's too caught up in concepts. But I also think that he interpreted them in a Judeo-Christian context. You know, how Christians drop acid and see Jesus Christ, I guess he had a similar experience, but as you said, he doesn't want to lose his respectability as an intellectual. Which is why he so ungracefully stumbles around ideas concerning divinity with his rational-scientific, existentialist and phenomenological approach. 

I agree. I think he interpreted his mystical experiences from a Judeo-Christan context. 

There are many interviews of JP where he is on the brink of tears, almost touching the Transcendent, but always trying to capture it with words. 

Maybe here is a good example of that...

 

[lmfao]

@Tim R Rather than forming your conclusion, you first have a "position" (emotion, stance, charge, angle) which you justify with the intellect in retrospect. And then you pretend the intellect was what made the conclusion. 

Humans are emotional creations with a limited faculty for reason. This holds for all people. 

 

With Jordan Peterson, his words will just serve whatever position he wants to take. It's still him doing that, even if it's unconsciously done. 

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, StarStruck said:

It is like giving a gun to a monkey and asking "what is wrong about that? It is their own responsibility".

Kinda disanalogous when he is also telling the monkey not to shoot himself or other people. Despite all the information out there, some people are reckless and only learn it the hard way. I mean Destiny the twitch streamer dropped 10g of shrooms on his first trip ever thinking he could handle it, and he struggled with the repercussions of that decision for months. So even relatively smart people can run into this trap. No matter how much information is out there, the only thing that saves you in the end is humility and generally being careful.

[The_Alchemist]

On 1/6/2021 at 6:50 PM, Leo Gura said:

Because he was indoctrined with a religious worldview.

The mind cannot just surrender the operating system it was programmed with any more than your computer can. This would require a painful and long jailbreaking of one's mind, which virtually no one is prepared to pursue.

The dude's who life hinges on duality. For JP nonduality would cause him a mental breakdown of epic proportions.

You're the opposite spectrum of him, you espouse left wing views, you're just more crypto about it than he is or you try to be.

Although, you are the same as him.

You are on the same tier as him, both of you have glaring holes in your sage game.

Edited January 8, 2021 by The_Alchemist

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

You're the opposite spectrum of him, you espouse left wing views, you're just more crypto about it than he is or you try to be.

Although, you are the same as him.

You are on the same tier as him, both of you have glaring holes in your sage game.

Lol

If you say so

[The_Alchemist]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol

If you say so

Are you not left wing?

[Reciprocality]

On 7.1.2021 at 5:44 PM, lmfao said:

you first have a "position" (emotion, stance, charge, angle) which you justify with the intellect in retrospect.

right on : )

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Are you not left wing?

I'm above left and right. But that makes me look left to most people because left is generally above right.

[Joel3102]

You choose to not identity as left wing but however if most of your positions are left wing then....you’re left wing lol 

[Reciprocality]

@Joel3102 | Most of his positions are only left wing insofar as they within his mind is believed as of utility today, It is ambigous therefore to call him left wing in conversations which transcends also those of contemporary utility.

If i were a nazi to the core and believed that today we needed republicans over democrats for such a long-term change it would by the same token be ambigous to name me a republican.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Reciprocality

[Mada_]

On 10/01/2021 at 10:53 AM, Joel3102 said:

You choose to not identity as left wing but however if most of your positions are left wing then....you’re left wing lol 

He still criticizes left wing though. 

[Aturban]

@Leo Gura

When the police enter a house in which there are thieves, the thieves go up from the ground floor to the first floor. When the police arrive on the first floor, the thieves have gone up to the second, and so to the third and finally out to the roof. And so, when the ego is about to be unmasked, it immediately identifies with a higher self... It goes up a level! Because the spiritual game is simply a refined and highbrow version of the ordinary game: ‘How can I outwit me?… How can I one-up me?”

 

[Leo Gura]

@Aturban Of course, but don't fool yourself by conflating relative and absolute domains.

The reason you want to be better, is because you're God

[nitramadas]

On 06/01/2021 at 4:43 PM, Tim R said:

I could never understand why someone as intelligent as him doesn't understand that e.g. "evil" or "good" aren't actually real and just arbitrary attributions. You know how he's always out to "make things better". 

"You're wretched and horrible and useless and resentful, get your act together, bucko!" This sort of attitude.

How come he never heard of nonduality? (or at least never talks about it?) He even took some Psilocybin for god sake, he knows about psychedelics, he knows about DMT and the entities, he knows that mystical experiences are real (although I think he's afraid of the implications they bear). He's so well-read and knows so much, his knowledge and his philosophical position are almost contradictory. 

He knows that there's something very fishy about materialism. He even knows that consciousness is fundamental to reality!

Wow, good to see someone saying what I keep repeating.  I think it's just a stage thing.  You will never get tier 1 to understand that that there's no objective morality.  Greens are about as bad as Blues at this.  I mean, most people on this forum would say smoking weed is a "sin"..  If you asked them why, they'd just call you evil (or something to that effect).  

 

Quote

 

So... Why is he not looking deeper into these topics? He's definitely smart enough to be a full-blown stage Yellow thinker, and yet he preaches that we are miserable worms who need to redeem themselves. Classic original sin guilt trip, why does he buy into this stuff?

Or am I not seeing something?

 

Orange can be highly intellectual, just as much as Yellow.  In fact, Orange is more likely to value the intellect than Yellow as Yellow's been "softened up" by having been Green.  It's awareness you have to focus on, how far reaching it is.  

 

On 08/01/2021 at 4:33 PM, The_Alchemist said:

Although, you are the same as him.
You are on the same tier as him, both of you have glaring holes in your sage game.

haha, they're both INTP, that's why they appear near identical.  Though I think Leo's higher up the spiral.  JP seems like a healthy/high Orange with an above average intellect.  While he does appear to be very slowly moving into Green, I don't think he'll ever make it there fully.  He's been Blue-Orange for so long that he's just too old now.

[Aturban]

@Leo Gura  Yes I know I am that, which is the absolute, but as you said, the relative domain is full of traps.

 I think the whole point of spiritual work is to show you that ''you'' as an individual ego, can't do anything about it, and the moment you realize that, the moment you actually realize. 

That's at least from my personal experience. I was born and raised as a conservative Muslim, in Libya, North Africa, until the Arab spring in 2011, which caused a revolution against Ghaddafi regime, and led to civil war and stage red atmosphere.  And when I saw & experienced that, my reality & believe system started to collapse, and as social as I was, there was no one that I could share my thoughts with, so I have spent most my time alone on my roof smoking week, and questioning my religion/culture. Which led me to leave the country looking for answers, and I traveled as far as India, where I was introduced to spirituality. Short story, I have done a lot spiritual work since then, also experimented with all sort of psychedelics, and without that I wouldn't have been where I am today, but....all that, was what the whole universe is doing,  and ''I'' as an individual ego, had as much to do with it, as beating my own heart.

By the way, I have taken your Life Purpose Course in 2015, and this video that I shared is one of the products, because then I changed my career from Finance and human resources to Cooking and Videography, where I bring the deep and shallow together.  So many thanks, and keep up the wonderful work. 

One more thing, Ketoganic deit is amazing for thyrod gland problems, that means you avoid carbs, and consume healthy fats, with a bit of protein.  

 

[The_Alchemist]

On 1/9/2021 at 10:09 PM, Leo Gura said:

I'm above left and right. But that makes me look left to most people because left is generally above right.

Winning and losing consume you like flames
Right and wrong rise around you like blades
A nervous breakdown is approaching that can't be avoided
"This is unfair, that's unequal"
Clinging onto this divisive way of thinking
Hung up on dividing everything is what causes the conflict in modern life
Despite having affirmed the vow, your mind is still filled with illusory thoughts and driven by delusive passion

Edited January 12, 2021 by The_Alchemist

[Elevated]

On 1/9/2021 at 6:53 PM, Joel3102 said:

You choose to not identity as left wing but however if most of your positions are left wing then....you’re left wing lol 

You're getting stuck on a certain level of complexity. I can't speak for @Leo Gura, but I would think he's making the case that he approaches politics from a Both/And approach. It's a Stage Yellow or Metamodernist viewpoint.

It's not "Either Left Or Right," it's, "Both Left And Right." To do so is to attempt to create a metasystem that transcends and includes the two systems we typically think of as Left and Right, which are merely labels denoting a certain  category of behaviours, policies, etc that we've typically thought of as in opposition to one another. To say that they are diametrically opposed to one another is to operate at a Systematic level of cognitive development, whereas the Both/And approach is at the Metasystematic level. This is taken from Michael L. Commons, "Model of Hierarchical Complexity."

I highly recommend you read, "The Listening Society," by Hanzi Freinacht. It's a great introduction for what I'm talking about here. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Elevated
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