Question on J. Peterson

[Tim R]

I could never understand why someone as intelligent as him doesn't understand that e.g. "evil" or "good" aren't actually real and just arbitrary attributions. You know how he's always out to "make things better". 

"You're wretched and horrible and useless and resentful, get your act together, bucko!" This sort of attitude.

How come he never heard of nonduality? (or at least never talks about it?) He even took some Psilocybin for god sake, he knows about psychedelics, he knows about DMT and the entities, he knows that mystical experiences are real (although I think he's afraid of the implications they bear). He's so well-read and knows so much, his knowledge and his philosophical position are almost contradictory. 

He knows that there's something very fishy about materialism. He even knows that consciousness is fundamental to reality!

So... Why is he not looking deeper into these topics? He's definitely smart enough to be a full-blown stage Yellow thinker, and yet he preaches that we are miserable worms who need to redeem themselves. Classic original sin guilt trip, why does he buy into this stuff?

Or am I not seeing something?

Edited January 6, 2021 by Tim R

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Tim R said:

I could never understand why someone as intelligent as him doesn't understand that e.g. "evil" or "good" aren't actually real and just arbitrary attributions.

Because he was indoctrined with a religious worldview.

The mind cannot just surrender the operating system it was programmed with any more than your computer can. This would require a painful and long jailbreaking of one's mind, which virtually no one is prepared to pursue.

The dude's who life hinges on duality. For JP nonduality would cause him a mental breakdown of epic proportions.

[DocWatts]

Video is a few years old, but David Pakman had by the far the best take I've seen as far as Jordon Peterson. In it, he goes into some of the problems with Jordon Peterson without demonizing him, and gives due credit to the helpful aspects that people have latched on to, while also highlighting the problematic ways that his academic work and self help advice have become entangled with a Conservative, religious worldview (and how Peterson is not honest about the fact that he clearly subscribes to a Conservative ideology).

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by DocWatts

[Leo Gura]

If JP ever truly comprehended nonduality there is a good likelihood he might kill himself. So for his sake perhaps it's best he never discovers it.

[Yali]

@Leo Gura why?

[JosephKnecht]

If you watch his lectures, you will notice that he takes too much pride in his understanding of reality.

The pride of a deep understanding of reality keeps you bound to the understanding. 

Also, he was/is too concerned with his image of a public intellectual and was surrendering too much power to the great psychologist of the past (Jung, Freud) and he wants to be perceived as their best student. 

When he was a professor at Harvard, he basically replaced Timothy Leary and if I had to bet, I would say that there is a 90% probability that JP has achieved some mystical states with or without psychedelics. Why he doesn't speak about them is beyond me...

[Tim R]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If JP ever truly comprehended nonduality there is a good likelihood he might kill himself.

@Leo Gura Oh man, that's a pretty grave position. Why do you go that far? I mean, he will have a severe existential crisis and whatnot for sure, but killing himself? Seems a bit too much.

1 hour ago, JosephKnecht said:

When he was a professor at Harvard, he basically replaced Timothy Leary and if I had to bet, I would say that there is a 90% probability that JP has achieved some mystical states with or without psychedelics. Why he doesn't speak about them is beyond me...

@JosephKnecht I also think he had some experiences, probably with psychedelics rather than without - his mind would've never shut up on its own, he's too caught up in concepts. But I also think that he interpreted them in a Judeo-Christian context. You know, how Christians drop acid and see Jesus Christ, I guess he had a similar experience, but as you said, he doesn't want to lose his respectability as an intellectual. Which is why he so ungracefully stumbles around ideas concerning divinity with his rational-scientific, existentialist and phenomenological approach. 

[Carl-Richard]

I think that Green can serve as a ramp that leads you to non-duality. He is reluctant to go up that ramp. Green's more feminine and proto-holistic qualities unlocks key mystical aspects involved with emotional embodiment and opens up that deep intuitional longing towards unity. There is a reason why New Age spirituality is a Green phenomena.

[Osaid]

3 hours ago, Yali said:

why?

ego backlash

[No Self]

If he were treated as a talented psychologist rather than a dubious messiah, his incomplete development would not be considered a problem.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Tim R said:

Why do you go that far?

Because he's already in a fragile state.

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

When he was a professor at Harvard, he basically replaced Timothy Leary and if I had to bet, I would say that there is a 90% probability that JP has achieved some mystical states with or without psychedelics. Why he doesn't speak about them is beyond me...

He has had mystical experiences both with and without psychedelics, but he gets stuck with the framing. It all gets clouded by intellect and fear.

 

[Tim R]

6 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

He has had mystical experiences both with and without psychedelics, but he gets stuck with the framing. It all gets clouded by intellect and fear.

 

Haha, he was tripping in his living room listening to Mozart, great!??

It's a real pity that he doesn't just come right out saying that he dropped 150µ or however much it was.

Boy the world would benefit so much if he'd become a bit more of a hippie, I already said it and I'll keep saying it goddammit! 

[StarStruck]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If JP ever truly comprehended nonduality there is a good likelihood he might kill himself. So for his sake perhaps it's best he never discovers it.

If psychedelics are so dangerous, it would have been more responsible if gave bigger warnings to people with psychological issues who want to take psychedelics.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

If psychedelics are so dangerous, it would have been more responsible if gave bigger warnings to people with psychological issues who want to take psychedelics.

People don't believe and skip all the warnings anyways. And I'm sick of giving out warnings all the time. Half my videos are warnings about traps.

Spiritual work will fuck your mind up bad no matter how you slice it. That's the nature of the game. If you don't want to face death, don't do spiritual work.

Spirituality = facing your own death head-on and coming out the other end. Anything shy of that is not serious spirituality, it's delay tactics.

[StarStruck]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

People don't believe and skip all the warnings anyways. And I'm sick of giving out warnings all the time. Half my videos are warnings about traps.

Spiritual work will fuck your mind up bad no matter how you slice it. That's the nature of the game. If you don't want to face death, don't do spiritual work.

Spirituality = facing your own death head-on and coming out the other end. Anything shy of that is not serious spirituality, it's delay tactics.

Yea, but there is a difference between giving warnings about losing wealth/health and losing one's life. You do give warnings about the danger of death but some people might not be conscious enough about their psychological issues/past traumas and think they can take psychedelics like somebody who had a healthy childhood.

[Leo Gura]

@StarStruck Just taking a psychedelic is not really gonna do much for ya. What I'm talking about requires deep contemplation and probing. Weak people will stop long before they get that far. Psychedelics tend to be self-regulating. You go too deep, you freak out, and you swear them off forever because you're not serious about Truth.

But yeah, psychedelics are dangerous for sure. Extreme caution required. You could seriously fuck up your mind if you don't know what you're doing.

[StarStruck]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@StarStruck Just taking a psychedelic is not really gonna do much for ya. What I'm talking about requires deep contemplation and probing. Weak people will stop long before they get that far. Psychedelics tend to be self-regulating. You go too deep, you freak out, and you swear them off forever because you're not serious about Truth.

But yeah, psychedelics are dangerous for sure. Extreme caution required. You could seriously fuck up your mind if you don't know what you're doing.

I freak out about my life situation when I take psychedelics. I went into therapy to sort things out before I go back to psychedelics.

[Tim R]

18 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

You do give warnings about the danger of death but some people might not be conscious enough about their psychological issues/past traumas and think they can take psychedelics like somebody who had a healthy childhood.

And what's Leo supposed to do about that?

In the end it's completely their own responsibility.

[StarStruck]

25 minutes ago, Tim R said:

And what's Leo supposed to do about that?

In the end it's completely their own responsibility.

It is like giving a gun to a monkey and asking "what is wrong about that? It is their own responsibility".