How to overcome solipsism?

[Someone here]

Sorry if this is a broken record or a repeated subject. I know it has been discussed a lot here but I know also that no satisfactory answer was given by anyone. 

So without picking on duality of subject vs object. "you" and "the world".. 

Let's just put it this way... ...

All you have is your subjective experience. In your experience there are other people who appear to have experience of their own. Period.  You don't have an experience of whether they actually have an experience. 

Here's the thing.. When you dream at night.. The entire dream world appears EXACTLY as the so called "waking world". You see other people that also appear to have their own dream. But as soon as you wake up.. You discover that it was only your dream. Other people were dreamt by you.   Now the question is how can one ever be certain that this is not the case with the waking world? It seems like an utter impossible absurdity to know that for certain.  Ofcourse you still deal with people from the assumption that they are aware independently and not just dreamt by you... But that's also the case in your dreams. So.. All pragmatism aside.. What is the TRUTH about this thing?? 

What seems to be the other option is there being a split in the present moment where God is living two different dreams simultaneously.. It certainly is possible. And that might explain why there is no conscious control over the world. But then again the same thing applies to your dreams. You don't have control over them from the inside even tho they are your creation. So which one is it? And how is it known? 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Someone here

[Nyseto]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Sorry if this is a broken record or a repeated subject. I know it has been discussed a lot here but I know also that no satisfactory answer was given by anyone. 

So without picking on duality of subject vs object. "you" and "the world".. 

Let's just put it this way... ...

All you have is your subjective experience. In your experience there are other people who appear to have experience of their own. Period.  You don't have an experience of whether they actually have an experience. 

Here's the thing.. When you dream at night.. The entire dream world appears EXACTLY as the so called "waking world". You see other people that also appear to have their own dream. But as soon as you wake up.. You discover that it was only your dream. Other people were dreamt by you.   Now the question is how can one ever be certain that this is not the case with the waking world? It seems like an utter impossible absurdity to know that for certain.  Ofcourse you still deal with people from the assumption that they are aware independently and not just dreamt by you... But that's also the case in your dreams. So.. All pragmatism aside.. What is the TRUTH about this thing?? 

What seems to be the other option is there being a split in the present moment where God is living two different dreams simultaneously.. It certainly is possible. And that might explain why there is no conscious control over the world. But then again the same thing applies to your dreams. You don't have control over them from the inside even tho they are your creation. So which one is it? And how is it known? 

The waking world and dream are both appearances within awareness, as awareness. Just because you are awake, you can still be fast asleep but not abiding as awareness and entertaining all kinds of thoughts. The waking world as you know it, is a kind of dream too. When you wake up, don't you put on your persona, your ideas, etc. As you would put on your clothes? These are just appearances. 

Only awareness is real. All there is to anything is the awareness of it.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Nyseto

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

But as soon as you wake up.. You discover that it was only your dream. Other people were dreamt by you.   Now the question is how can one ever be certain that this is not the case with the waking world? It seems like an utter impossible absurdity to know that for certain.  Ofcourse you still deal with people from the assumption that they are aware independently and not just dreamt by you... But that's also the case in your dreams. So.. All pragmatism aside.. What is the TRUTH about this thing?? 

It's not mutually exclusive.

"People" can simultaneously be dreamt by you and have "their own" subjective experience. You are dreaming everyone's dream, so really there's just one dreamer.

Look into another person's eyes. You're looking at yourself! It's the same consciousness that you are staring back at you.

[Someone here]

4 hours ago, Nyseto said:

The waking world as you know it, is a kind of dream too. When you wake up, don't you put on your persona, your ideas, etc. As you would put on your clothes? These are just appearances.

Well do you think of it this way or are you operating under the materialist paradigm? You live as if "the world" is objective and exists independently from your senses? Now is that verifiable? Don't you also assume that in your dreams? 

[Someone here]

4 hours ago, aurum said:

It's not mutually exclusive.

"People" can simultaneously be dreamt by you and have "their own" subjective experience. You are dreaming everyone's dream, so really there's just one dreamer.

Look into another person's eyes. You're looking at yourself! It's the same consciousness that you are staring back at you.

That's one perspective. My question was how do you know it's true? Do you think people in your dreams are conscious?

How do you know you are dreaming "everyone's dream" and not that "everyone" are your dream? Ya dig the difference? 

[Sempiternity]

Take a high dose of 5-MEO, Awaken to being God, and you'll have your answers, that's how you know indisputably what is true. 

[Someone here]

@Sempiternity have you done that? 

[Sempiternity]

That doesn't matter now does it? Only verifying your experience of Truth matters, and only you can do that. 

[Carl-Richard]

I think it helps to use the absolute/relative distinction (You/you):

Only You have access to "absolute experience", because there is only You. However, from a relative perspective, there does seem to exist other relative experiences other than your own relative experience (your experience of being a separate self; "you"), but it also seems like you don't have access to some aspects of these experiences. This is of course based on different degrees of inference rather than direct experience, but everything in the relative domain is anyway based on inferences. After all, the absolute is nothing else than direct experience, so where does that leave the relative? (rhetorical question). In other words, the way you're infering the existence of external/separate objects (as an example) is fundamentally the same as the way you're infering the existence of external/separate experiences. You could argue that the "degrees" of inference are different, but both of them are nevertheless "not true" in an absolute sense.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Osaid]

You need to realize that no matter what you experience, others are ALWAYS IMAGINARY. "Other" cannot exist as anything other than imagination. If it does exist as something other than imagination, then it is not what you call "other" anymore. You can't have any experience of "other" if it isn't imagination. There is no "other" without imagination, that's the only way the experience of "other" will function.

Even if we assume that there are multiple experiences happening right now, "others" will always be imaginary in those experiences, because it cannot exist as anything else. 

When you say that you want others to be "real", you're completely disregarding how the existence of others work. "Other" needs to be imagination, that's as real as it will ever get. You're expecting imagination to be something other than imagination. Anything other than that cannot be "other". This is also how the existence of the ego works, you imagine it to be real. You can't have a "real" ego, it's only as real as you imagine it to be. If you know that you yourself are not real, how can you expect others to be real? The only way for you to experience "others" and be attached to "others" is only through imagination.

If you were God, how exactly would you prove to yourself that others exist? What would evidence that others exist look like?

90% of your life is you putting imagination and superficial distinctions on top of your experience. This is nothing new. It doesn't matter if there are other experiences, because even considering that to be true is always within the realm of imagination. And also, within all those experiences, others will always be imaginary too. 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Osaid

[Javfly33]

@Someone herehere It's very simple.

Look to what's true.

Solipsism is just a thought, a word, an idea.

Don't you want to know what is True??

Think now about "other people". Other "bubbles" exactly. Can you see them? Where are they?

Exactly. They are an idea. You are imagining those bubbles right now .

So do they exist? Yes, as an idea in your mind.

Now look at your direct experience. What do you see? Just a bubble is here.

A bubble is the case. "Others" are not.

That's it.

Everything else is mental games you play to avoid the Truth.

Now, a very big mistake would be to make assumptions or conclusions about this by thinking that this confirms Solipsism.

It does not 

It confirms it if you think it confirms it.

Just abandon any type of will to get to any kind of truth with the mind!!!

If you want to really see if other bubbles exist. Literally become other bubbles NOW. But who knows how are you supposed to do that.

But That would be the way to see the Truth. By being it.

Don't think!

[Lyubov]

Why don’t you go outside and talk to people and ask if they are simultaneously conscious and having their own subjective experience different from yours. Should clear some things up, or expose your distrust of creation. 

[Javfly33]

19 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Why don’t you go outside and talk to people and ask if they are simultaneously conscious and having their own subjective experience different from yours. Should clear some things up, or expose your distrust of creation. 

@Lyubov Lol , you can do that in a dream and that wouldn't mean that the others are Conscious.

Do you actually believe that when you talk with your mother in a dream, your mother is literally having that real bubble in your dream  ?

[Carl-Richard]

13 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@Lyubov Lol , you can do that in a dream and that wouldn't mean that the others are Conscious.

Do you actually believe that when you talk with your mother in a dream, your mother is literally having that real bubble in your dream  ?

I think it doesn't matter as long as you treat them like you want to be treated yourself (as a person who is experiencing). Besides, the feeling you get from interacting with other people is deeply meaningful and is in itself a proof that something is being shared. At the end of the day, it really boils down to framing. Do you want to frame the truth of the absolute oneness of experience as a singularity of complete isolation or as a singularity of complete unity? The trick is to see the perfection in both of them.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Lyubov]

4 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@Lyubov Lol , you can do that in a dream and that wouldn't mean that the others are Conscious.

Do you actually believe that when you talk with your mother in a dream, your mother is literally having that real bubble in your dream  ?

Hmm, I don’t know. I suppose she could be? I don’t place that kind of importance into conventional sleeping dreams distinguished by the discerning mind. Go do what I said though and see what insights it leads to 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Lyubov

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, Someone here said:

So without picking on duality of subject vs object. "you" and "the world".. 

You just did though :
 

9 hours ago, Someone here said:

All you have is your subjective experience. In your experience there are other people who appear to have experience of their own. You don't have an experience of whether they actually have an experience. 

Subject vs. object, you vs. other.

[Tim R]

@Someone here Hmm, is the question "is solipsism true and if yes, how to overcome it?" really the important question?

Or should the question rather be "so what? Who cares?"

Because it really doesn't matter I think. You came up with the problem. It's like having an issue with the clouds being grey.

[Javfly33]

@Carl-Richard of course, if you are interested in framing and practicality.

But i am interested in Truth

 @Lyubov What you are missing is that both dreams are dreamed by your mind.

I actually yesterday in nights dream smoked DMT and realized the dream was as real as "material reality". Tada! That's no difference. Both are dreams 

[seeking_brilliance]

You as the character is imaginary, so why wouldn't any others be as well? 

But I notice way too much negative perspectives on imagination around these parts.  It should be embraced, not demonised. Not identified with, but embraced. 

[allislove]

@Someone here

No one can answer this question for you. The answer comes not through thinking about the direct experience (a.k.a. monkey mind), but directly through the direct experience via relaxation, letting go (a.k.a. meditation). Allow the drop to realize yourself as ocean so to speak