Could someone become enlightened and be a serial killer?

[Jo96]

I was watching this old interview from Charles Manson and it seems to me he knows hes god based on what he says. It seems he knows it to a nuanced degree. What do you guys think?

 

[Nahm]

@Jo96

Lookin to explore this, or just lookin for conversation? 

[Batman]

Who cares? any answer you'll get to this question will only be speculation. Furthermore, not only no answer will deepen your consciousness, it will actually add another belief or story. Your falling prey to just another mind trap, trying to conceptualize Enlightenment from an obscure angle. 

[Jo96]

15 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Jo96

Lookin to explore this, or just lookin for conversation? 

just a conversation 

[Forestluv]

28 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Lookin to explore this, or just lookin for conversation? 

Asking for a friend ? 

@Jo96 It depends on how you define “enlightenment”.

[Jo96]

14 minutes ago, Batman said:

Who cares? any answer you'll get to this question will only be speculation. Furthermore, not only no answer will deepen your consciousness, it will actually add another belief or story. Your falling prey to just another mind trap, trying to conceptualize Enlightenment from an obscure angle. 

I dont care about enlightenment. I was just starting a topic purely out of interest. no offense bro but the entire world isnt here just for enlightenment. reality is all inclusive. you may even speed up your journey if you open yourself up to more then seeking and become  authentically interested in the world. 

much love bro

[Space]

@Jo96 Of course they could, just very unlikely. Enlightenment/Truth is non conditional. Be whatever you want to be! But certain frames of mind and sets of behaviour are more conducive to enlightenment than others.

[Jo96]

2 minutes ago, Space said:

@Jo96 Of course they could, just very unlikely. Enlightenment/Truth is non conditional. Be whatever you want to be! But certain frames of mind and sets of behaviour are more conducive to enlightenment than others.

Which frames of mind do you think are most conductive? What is it about charles manson that would make him less likely. What if that was just his authentic expression of his being? 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Jo96

[Moksha]

Solipsism? I could see someone doing horrific acts, and rationalizing violence as no more real than a video game.

Dharma enlightenment? Not a chance. A spiritually awake person would never intentionally harm someone else, for selfish reasons. God is unconditional love.

[Jo96]

Just now, Moksha said:

Solipsism? I could see someone doing horrific acts, and rationalizing violence as no more real than a video game.

Dharma enlightenment? Not a chance. A spiritually awake person would never intentionally harm someone else, for selfish reasons. God is unconditional love.

but isnt god also charles manson?

[Javfly33]

22 minutes ago, Jo96 said:

but isnt god also charles manson?

And God is also a cat.

But that doesn´t mean that the cat is self-conscious that its God. Therefore the cat will always be deeply fear-based and survival oriented even though its God

[Guest SirVladimir]

God includes every rusted nail protruded from a weathered cross. God includes every saint and sinner who spread their arms on it like eagles. God includes every drop of blood leaking from the wooden framework. God is the hammer and the hammered. And God's Heart throbs for it all. God is enlightenment, and you are God, and you are enlightenment. 

Thank God for surrender and forgiveness. My humble human heart is too weak to take it all. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by SirVladimir

[Heart of Space]

Manson never murdered anyone directly.  He spun a bunch of tales to his followers who then went on to murder people.  

He very well could have been enlightened.  

But, he was very undeveloped intellectually, so naturally he says things that reflect that.

A very low intelligence person in an HIV ward of a prison could become enlightened.  You shouldn't think that this stuff only comes in the form of big beards and flowy robes, because that's all just window dressing.  Even the spiritual langauge you use reflects this. 

[Space]

46 minutes ago, Jo96 said:

Which frames of mind do you think are most conductive? What is it about charles manson that would make him less likely. What if that was just his authentic expression of his being? 

Non serial killer frames of mind haha. I don't doubt that he was expressing himself completely authentically.

[Nahm]

Infinite can not know finite. 

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Jo96 said:

but isnt god also charles manson?

God is everything, but in different states of Consciousness. Charles Manson was very low, on the Consciousness scale.

[Jo96]

4 hours ago, Moksha said:

God is everything, but in different states of Consciousness. Charles Manson was very low, on the Consciousness scale.

How can you be sure? relative to what? its all infinite so how can there be levels?

[LfcCharlie4]

Glimpses of nothing matters, there's nobody there, no responsibility etc, sure. 

Awakening to love & stabilizing in the Absolute- No way

[Moksha]

12 hours ago, Jo96 said:

How can you be sure? relative to what? its all infinite so how can there be levels?

When you awaken, you directly realize yourself, and everything else, as Consciousness.

Consciousness has no beginning, and it has no end. It is called a Mystery, for example, in the Tao Te Ching, because despite being changeless, it also has the capacity to create. Despite being infinite, it can partition itself into forms, in order to experience relative reality. Put another way, it can dream. It can even wake up to itself, within the part of itself that is in the dream.

One of my favorite analogies is the ocean. Consciousness is the ocean, infinitely vast and deep. The deeper you dive into it, the less change there is, until you are in utter stillness. At the surface though, there is movement in the form of waves. The waves are constantly cresting and dissolving back into the ocean. They are still part of the ocean, but in a different, transient state. What you think of as "you" is just a wave. It was born, and it will die. The real You is the ocean itself.

[Gesundheit]

Could the clock become ? and still be a clock?