Level of consciousness of Antifa and BLM?

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, Nyseto said:

I understand your point on toxic capitalism and social programs being beneficial. I don't disagree. 

I've addressed your point, now will you address mine? ?

What's up with Venezuela? Let's say I'm your 10 year old kid and I come home saying, "If socialism works, then what happened in Venezuela? All these Trump supporters talk about Venezuela. What are they on to? Are they all just tripping balls or what?" 

I’m not interested in discussing Venezuela any more than I am discussing covid hoax conspiracy theories. The Venezuela government is a red herring relative to what I advocate for. If you would like to discuss how Canadian and Scandinavian systems are more advanced than the U.S., sure. That is the direction I want to move. 

You seem to have an endless supply of distractions from addressing underlying issues such as systemic racism, animal cruelty, toxic capitalism, beneficial social programs etc.

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Nyseto said:

I understand your point on toxic capitalism and social programs being beneficial. I don't disagree. 

I've addressed your point, now will you address mine? ?

What's up with Venezuela? Let's say I'm your 10 year old kid and I come home saying, "If socialism works, then what happened in Venezuela? All these Trump supporters talk about Venezuela. What are they on to? Are they all just tripping balls or what?" 

Debating this is really ineffective. When you are ignorant about a topic, it usually is better to do some research. Here you have one article:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/08/fact-check-socialism-alone-did-not-destroy-venezuelas-economy/3323566001/

 

It is a bit unfair to come here and expect Forestluv to explain to you why an argument is not really an argument, when you don't even yourself know what the argument truly is. You come to such a discussion to test your ideas, that you hopefully put some effort into. Not so Forest can spoon feed you facts about Venezuela.

[Nyseto]

Just now, Forestluv said:

I’m not interested in discussing Venezuela any more than I am discussing covid hoax conspiracy theories. The Venezuela government is a red herring relative to what I advocate for. If you would like to discuss how Canadian and Scandinavian systems are more advanced than the U.S., sure. 

But I have family in Venezuela and I care for them. 

Canada and Scandinavia are doing pretty well though. 

[Forestluv]

@Scholar It’s similar to those that deny microbes exist. I just don’t have the time or patience to deconstruct bs. Thanks for posting the link.

[Nyseto]

1 minute ago, Forestluv said:

@Scholar It’s similar to those that deny microbes exist. I just don’t have the time or patience to deconstruct bs. Thanks for posting the link.

Do they really? Everything is just a concept ?

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Nyseto

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Nyseto said:

But I have family in Venezuela and I care for them. 

Canada and Scandinavia are doing pretty well though. 

I didn’t say Venezuela lacks value or is irrelevant. I’m saying it has nothing to do with what I’m advocating for. Yet I can imagine how seeing suffering in Venezuela would condition someone with a strong aversion to that system of government - of which I do not advocate.

Yes, Canada and Scandinavia are more evolved than the U.S. That is the direction I’d like to move.

[Nyseto]

3 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I didn’t say Venezuela lacks value or is irrelevant. I’m saying it has nothing to do with what I’m advocating for. Yet I can imagine how seeing suffering in Venezuela would condition someone with a strong aversion to that system of government - of which I do not advocate.

Yes, Canada and Scandinavia are more evolved than the U.S. That is the direction I’d like to move.

They are quite evolved. 

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, Nyseto said:

Do they really? Everything is just a concept ?

Depends on context. In one context they exist, in another they don’t. Yet anti-germers have it wrong in one context (although aspects of their argument is true).

Everything I write is both true and false, depending on context. If I say the ear is the elephant, I don’t mean to say the tail is not the e,phantom. Yet it would be incorrect to say the ear is the tail. 

[Forestluv]

@Nyseto Overall, I would consider Canada more evolved at a Orange-green level. The U.S. is about a stage lower, on average, imo. Yet this does not mean EVERY Canadian is higher evolved than EVERY American. That is the whole point of averages. For example, men on average are taller than women. Yet of course we can find a woman talker than a man.

[Lyubov]

they are stage green, many of them falling into the mean green fallacy 

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, Nyseto said:

Spiral Dynamics has been a new theory to me after stumbling upon Leo's work. What I've realized is that it's only a theory at best to classify levels of consciousness. But consciousness itself isn't exactly small or big since it's infinite. I can see Spiral Dynamics turned into another tool of the ego by saying "I'm stage Yellow and you're blue, therefore I'm superior." If we are to be truly conscious, we'd have to leave Spiral Dynamics aside as it would become an obstacle. Not saying it can't be talked about or analyzed, there's just a bigger picture.

The hilarious irony here is that you can also use that point to boost your ego. Infact, every argument or action in general can be used that way. I know you're new to it, but if there is one job Leo has excelled at is teaching people on this forum about the limits of SD. The vast majority of people here have heard this point a hundred times over, therefore you mentioning it just makes my ears bleed. To beat this ghost of a horse completely out of existence: every statement ever is based on concepts and constructs that are limited in their applicability, so mentioning that fact ad nauseum, especially in a place like this, especially when it's not a central part of the discussion, has in virtually all cases zero benefit.

About consciousness and infinity, absolute infinity must contain all possible limitations per definition. "Levels of consciousness" is therefore not a contradiction to infinity. Contradictions are also not a problem for infinity, because it must also contain all contradictions. A contradiction is just one perspective clashing with another. Infinity contains all that.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

About consciousness and infinity, absolute infinity must contain all possible limitations per definition. "Levels of consciousness" is therefore not a contradiction. That is also not a problem, because it must also contain all contradictions. A contradiction is just one perspective clashing with another. Infinity contains all that.

So liberating and beautiful.

[Michal__]

Destroying innocent people's property is a low consciousness activity, no matter how good the cause is.

Liberals are mostly above average when it comes to consciousness but come on. If you think this is ok try to imagine yourself in the position of the people whose shops were burned down.

The cause is good, the people looting are idiots.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Michal__

[Gidiot]

As a whole BLM supporters are nerdy liberal women and men, very young of all races usually college students, they aren’t rioters and they aren’t antifa, antifa is of a lower level of consciousness than BLM if you ask me as whole but OF COURSE there will be individuals that are lower and higher than the collective consciousness of the group, these are the ones usually evidenced in right wing propaganda.

from what I’ve seen as antifa they will be violent but they will usually be in a position of property destruction or defense of a group of people from Neo nazi groups. Violence and property destruction dont automatically = bad 

back in the revolutionary war the rebels tarred and feathered people, raped women and destroyed king Georges tea and are celebrated as heroes, history will judge BLM nicely maybe even antifa nicely but since they are militant leftists I doubt it, like it’s been said they are a green backlash to blue and red and sometimes they can be toxic or sometime they can be healthy it depends on the individual but on the spiral I would put both at green with BLM slightly higher 

 

 

 

[Loving Radiance]

Very insightful thread.

 

@Forestluv @Carl-Richard @Scholar Keep up the good work.