What is ANYTHING?

[Someone here]

Happy new year beautiful people lol.. 

 

So what is ANYTHING. period? ?

To relate to this question you must fathom that the present moment is Completely mysterious and unknown to you. I mean sure you know what a tree is and what a sun is or what colors are (or you think so) .. But the very being of existence itself is a total mind blow. You need to become conscious of that or otherwise I can't help you. ?

 

Take any perception.. Could be a sound.. Or a visual.. A feeling or anything.. Now focus your attention on the feeling of it.. And now wonder what is this?  ?

First of all notice that it's not what you think it is. Because thoughts are a different perception. ?

Do this with everything. Such that you strip the whole universe from all  your thoughts about it. 

Universe - thoughts  =?? 

So now you have the whole universe.. All the visuals and the objects etc  exactly the same as always.. But without any narrative whatsoever describing it. Now tell me what is that?  Lol ? remember you can't use thoughts because thoughts are not "it". 

I will say it's just is what it is. And it's completely unexplainable. Just pure irreducible magic. 

Will use analogy of a dream.. If you were dreaming we could ask what is this dream? What is the substance of the dream? How it came about? There is a direct answer and indirect answer. The indirect answer is it's a hallucination happening in your brain in the waking world. But see we just explained one appearance by another appearance. So we didn't really explain anything. Because the point is what is appearance itself? ?

Same thing about this present moment.. If you explain it by atoms and brains.. Or by Gods up in the clouds or simulation theory etc.... You still basically didn't explain anything. Because you've just replaced this unexplainable appearance with another unexplainable appearance.  

The direct answer to what appearance is or what reality is..... Is it's exactly just how it is and it's a total mystery. Pure magic. And you will never explain it away. Not because of lack in your explanatory tools. But because that's just how it is. But most people have a hard time digesting this. 

 

 

 

[Willie]

universe - thoughts = universe

infinity - anything = infinity

[Someone here]

@Willie The illusion of knowing comes from language and creating  conceptual descriptions of the world.  Do you know what anything is or do you just give it a label? ?

[Willie]

Labels and knowing things is certainly helpful for living in society, but dropping labels and not knowing is a purer way to be. The universe won’t care either way.

[Someone here]

Sure you need to know where your passport is to live In a society. I'm just saying you don't know what a passport is or what society is or what living is or what you is ?

[VeganAwake]

Yep, not knowing is the case regardless of thoughts about THIS!!

❤

[Claymoree]

I have to disagree, there is nothing magical for me  except  some pointless questions like why there is anything at all, if there is something else that is not connected, that can never be connected. 

You either know , or you don't, another thing is if  you think that you know. 

If you experience it, you know  it, but there can be all kind of knowing connected to it, like where did it come from, what it means , what can I do with it, why did it show up.

Your topic goes more into subjects of why connections to experience cause change of experience, because just as you said, as soon as you assign knowledge(which can be assumptions, reaction, etc) to experience it changes, to make it even more strange, even if you take thoughts, knowledge away, your state of mind , overall energy, chemical composition if you want to call , will change how the same experience is seen.

You give way to much credit to thoughts, also there is intellect without thoughts, so you would have to take away intellect and become vegetable. 

 

 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Claymoree said:

There is nothing magical for me. 

That's because :

1 you take it for granted. 

2 you have preconceived beliefs (you think you already know what's up) 

3 you don't question enough. 

 

1 hour ago, Claymoree said:

some pointless questions like why there is anything at all

See what you did there. The only way any pragmatic value can exist is if something exists. So this is prior to "points". What is pointless and what's not is relative any case. I find that question deeply fascinating and interesting. 

1 hour ago, Claymoree said:

If you experience it, you know  it, but there can be all kind of knowing connected to it, like where did it come from, what it means , what can I do with it, why did it show up.

Knowing is contextual. You know stuff within the context of existence and that's all valid. But do you know what existence is? Or what being is? This stuff right here?... Do you even understand the question? Lol

1 hour ago, Claymoree said:

Your topic goes more into subjects of why connections to experience cause change of experience, because just as you said, as soon as you assign knowledge(which can be assumptions, reaction, etc) to experience it changes, to make it even more strange, even if you take thoughts, knowledge away, your state of mind , overall energy, chemical composition if you want to call , will change how the same experience is seen.

You give way to much credit to thoughts, also there is intellect without thoughts, so you would have to take away intellect and become vegetable. 

My point is explaining appearance with other appearance never solves the question of what appearance is to begin with. So when scientists explain this appearance by saying it's generated by the brain.. You still have to explain the brain and so on to infinity.. And even then you didn't explain any thing really. Because we still  don't know what appearance is. We are just describing how one appearance generates the other. And that's valid. But It doesn't answer the question in OP. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Someone here

[Javfly33]

I suspect is me ?

[Claymoree]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

That's because :

1 you take it for granted. 

2 you have preconceived beliefs (you think you already know what's up) 

3 you don't question enough. 

There is you assuming that he knows how much I have questioned, it is fine by me if my understanding will change with time and it for sure will , but when it comes to your arguments I assume I have gone trough them, they are not miracle to me, it is just confusion, being lost in different perspectives and have nothing to do with me knowing what is going on. 

15 minutes ago, Someone here said:

See what you did there. The only way any pragmatic value can exist is if something exists. So this is prior to "points". What is pointless and what's not is relative any case. I find that question deeply fascinating and interesting. 

Question is only interesting in abstract sense, but it hold no value outside of it.

17 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Knowing is contextual. You know stuff within the context of existence and that's all valid. But do you know what existence is? Or what being is? This stuff right here?... Do you even understand the question? Lol 

Yes I understand your question and I already answered it to extend that this topic is related to, going outside of it would be going into way to many directions of being, understanding that is miracle to you, or they are not even there,  also I did not say that I know everything, but that nothing is wo wo to me. 

28 minutes ago, Someone here said:

My point is explaining appearance with other appearance never solves the question of what appearance is to begin with. So when scientists explain this appearance by saying it's generated by the brain.. You still have to explain the brain and so on to infinity.. And even then you didn't explain any thing really. Because don't know what appearance is. We are just describing how one appearance generates the other. And that's valid. But It doesn't answer the question in OP. 

There you come to another problem, can you ever be sure that any answer is right? You see, you think that it can , or can't  be answered, or already believe one as in your case. 

[James123]

@Someone here there is just nothing brother. Anything that you have learned is a thought including word of the “thought “. There is no infinite, mind, universe vs. Anything learned is comes from so called “self”, even “you” learned “your” “self”. There is just nothing. There is no such a thing as something. Therefore, it is genuinely not knowing, which is just being as before birth. If you dont learn you never born. Now is death, before birth. 

 “The ultimate truth is not even to think.”

Buddha 

 

3 hours ago, Claymoree said:

You give way to much credit to thoughts, also there is intellect without thoughts, so you would have to take away intellect and become vegetable. 

Saying that “become vegetable “, it is clear to see that still mind is operating. Operating mind still consider thoughts as “thoughts” (still naming and labeling). When your so called mind transforms thoughts are no longer thoughts. There is no individual to think the thoughts, thoughts are you, therefore no thoughts, no mind, and no thinking. Because when “you” think the thoughts (you is another thought), thoughts are thinking the thoughts. Because all is nothing, which is you. Additionally, if everything is nothing, therefore, there is no such a thing as something. 

“All wrong-doing arises because of mind. If mind is transformed can wrong-doing remain” 

Buddha

How do you know there is an intellect? Who teach you that? Is that them direct experience or something that they have learned? Intellect is still a thought that “you” have learned as “vegetable”. If you take the thoughts away, you will take away entire universe including “you”,  “infinity “ and “vegetable “. Because infinite and vegetable is learned by “you” and “your” so “called mind”.

@Claymoree @Someone here

Kaivalya (कैवल्य), is the ultimate goal of Raja yogaand means "solitude", "detachment" or "isolation", a vrddhi-derivation from kevala "alone, isolated". It is the isolation of purusha from prakṛti, and liberation from rebirth, i.e., Moksha (although this is controversial due to the predominant view that it is impossible to separate/isolate purusha from prakrati, and vice versa). Kaivalya-Mukti is described in some Upanishads, such as Muktika and Kaivalya as the most superior form of Moksha which can grant liberation both within this life, as Jivanmukti, and after death, as Videhamukti, and is the essence of all Upanishads.[1] Wikipedia 

Edited January 4, 2021 by James123

[Someone here]

5 hours ago, Claymoree said:

they are not miracle to me. 

You are dead wrong. Everything is a miracle like it or not ?

5 hours ago, Claymoree said:

Yes I understand your question and I already answered it to extend that this topic is related to, going outside of it would be going into way to many directions of being, understanding that is miracle to you, or they are not even there,  also I did not say that I know everything, but that nothing is wo wo to me. 

As I said I'm not denying any underlying explanatory tools that are common today in mainstream science. Atoms.. Brains.. Big bangs. Sure all that could be valid. But notice what that is.. You are just replacing this appearance with another. So again the mystery is unresolved by this chain of appearances. We are asking what is appearance directly. I hope I made this clear enough. 

 

5 hours ago, Claymoree said:

There you come to another problem, can you ever be sure that any answer is right? You see, you think that it can , or can't  be answered, or already believe one as in your case. 

It can't be answered by nesting one appearance within the other. Only by facing it head on. Again don't explain this appearance in terms of another appearance. Explain it in terms of itself. Can it be done either way? 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Someone here

[Someone here]

4 hours ago, James123 said:

There is just nothing. 

Sorry bro that doesn't make much sense to me. Unless you don't mean void or blank by "nothing". 

[allislove]

10 hours ago, Someone here said:

To relate to this question you must fathom that the present moment is Completely mysterious and unknown to you. I mean sure you know what a tree is and what a sun is or what colors are (or you think so) .. But the very being of existence itself is a total mind blow. You need to become conscious of that or otherwise I can't help you. ?

There is thinking of separation in this narrative. Who needs to become conscious? Or otherwise who can't help whom? Bunch of thoughts. All is one. 

10 hours ago, Someone here said:

The direct answer to what appearance is or what reality is..... Is it's exactly just how it is and it's a total mystery. Pure magic. And you will never explain it away. Not because of lack in your explanatory tools. But because that's just how it is. But most people have a hard time digesting this. 

Yes, bro, pure magic ?

[James123]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Sorry bro that doesn't make much sense to me. Unless you don't mean void or blank by "nothing". 

Thats ok my friend. Such as,  “Nothing”, “nothingness “, “void”, “formlessness “, “emptiness “ or “pure consciousness “. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by James123

[Gesundheit]

@Someone here Not only you look like one of my close friends, but you actually sound like him. A LOT! Ha!

[VeganAwake]

What's This All About?

Starting at the beginning, what is advaita , Robert?

 

"Advaita (Sankrit) means “not two”; it is the teaching we call nonduality. We all know what duality is—the idea that there are two or more things that exist, such as me and you. Nonduality is the realization, which occurs to some people, that beyond the appearance of separation all things are actually unified in an overarching actuality. This wholeness is called the Absolute, a condition which is infinite and eternal. All supposed separate things arise within it, because all things—not being eternal or infinite—are instead impermanent. So, the primal identity of both me and you is that our source is recognized to be the Absolute. When this realization is clearly held, our sense of being a separate individual dissolves into a deeper identity of Absolute wholeness.

 

Getting to ajata, you’ve said that a person who’s had the realization of their identity as the Absolute is best in a position to understand ajata. What is ajata?

 

Ajata (again Sanskrit) means “no origination,” or no creation. When something is said to have had no beginning (and thus no ending), we are getting into ajata. It is pointed to in a poem by Hui Neng: “When there is nothing from the start, where can dust alight?”

 

It is a deeper look into advaita. In advaita, as a teaching tool, we speak of the relative (me and you) and the Absolute. Everyone knows what the relative is—me and you—but what exactly do we mean when we speak of the Absolute? Whatever we say about it boils down to concepts. These are appropriate for teaching Self-realization: but what actually goes beyond the concepts?

 

Is this where sunyata comes in?

 

Sunyata is another Sanskrit word; it means “emptiness.” Buddha’s teachings, over his lifetime, progressed from simple to sublime: the so-called wisdom teachings are principally the Heart Sutra and the Diamond Sutra. In the Heart Sutra are the six words, form is emptiness, emptiness is form.

 

Emptiness is what ajata is talking about when it says that not anything has ever actually been created—or had existence—from the start. If not any thing has ever had actual existence, what do you have? Nothingness, or emptiness (though there would not be any thing to be empty of ).

 

This is where ajata (there have been no real forms at all, from the beginning) and sunyata (emptiness is the only true or final condition, and even it does not “exist”) come together. In other words, as Nagarjuna has said, “Things do not arise, at any place, at any time.” Not even emptiness—which, being empty, is not a thing—exists alternative to forms: forms are emptiness; where there are no forms, emptiness is not something that “waits around.”

 

Do forms arise in, or come from, emptiness?

 

Forms generally are easy to understand. We are said to be forms. Because forms appear everywhere, our tendency is to think of emptiness as a form—another thing. Where the true condition is that emptiness is all there is, not anything exists as something called emptiness. In fact, since existence—“abiding” in some way—is not even in the equation, neither would the term nonexistence apply either.

 

These—or any—designations are concepts about emptiness. But what is completely, utterly, totally empty is not the subject of description of any type. To emphasize the complete emptiness of emptiness, the writings on the subject point out that where emptiness is all that is, even emptiness would have to be empty of emptiness. So you must initially get that straight: emptiness is even empty of emptiness.

 

Now, out of such a condition what could possibly come, or be arisen? Not anything can be generated by, or out of, 100% emptiness. Since emptiness is the “ultimate” condition, from the beginning, this is why it is said that there never has been origination or creation.

So, the short answer is: forms are not forms, in reality: forms are emptiness. Forms do not exist, in truth.

 

You said “we are forms.”

 

Yes, to us creatures, forms do appear to exist. So, in the writings, forms are said to appear to exist, and in this case “exist” has a provisional meaning (emptiness does not appear to exist, because in truth it doesn’t). But every form is impermanent: every form is dependent on something—even forces such as “life” or “death”—for its existence. Not anything is a stand-alone, self-sufficient entity. If such a thing could come into existence, it would be permanent. It would not be subject to change: it would be immortal. So, in this sense, forms do not exist in any long-lasting, non-provisional way.

 

This brings us to what appears: what appears to be real, or existent, is not the same as what is real or existent. A mirage appears to be real; a real source of quenching your thirst it is not.

 

We appear (at least to ourselves) to be real. We are not: we are provisional—as are all other things—as mentioned previously. Our “existence” is in quotation marks: temporarily “real.” In fact, our true nature is emptiness—as are all things.

 

When we as forms are not real, how real are any of the forms we perceive to be as real as we are?

 

The world that we see only appears to be real?

 

That is the point. In the writings, our existence, our world, is likened to a dream. You—whoever you think you are—are the dreamer of the dream. You are not outside of the dream, but within the dream. When the dream ends for you—when what you think of as “death” is present—the dream ends. “You” (which actually never was) disappear; everything you have thought existed disappears—the entire “universe,” with all its causes and forces. All forms are now purely emptiness, which they and the dreamer—despite appearances to the dreamer—have always been.

 

Is it possible to awaken from, or to awaken to, the dream while still alive?

 

Yes. That is what ajata and sunyata are telling us. When you recognize that this dream of life is your dream, and that dream and its dreamer have the same reality—that is, the lack of it—the “spell” has essentially been broken.

 

What actually changes then?

 

It’s simply a relaxed perspective on what’s apparently going on. In essence, we know that not anything is actually happening, in any unremedial or unredemptive sense. Life, suffering, joy and death appear to be happening (as the Bhagavad Gita says), cause and effect appear to be universal phenomena. But just as one does not wake up from a sleeping dream and take any of its events seriously, one no longer takes the supposed events of life as if they had any everlasting meaning.

 

What about any meaning in understanding emptiness?

 

That too does not matter. Whether one actually wakes up from the dream or not, the final ending of the dream for each of us will always be the same: the “presence” of sheer emptiness. None of us can ever make any “serious mistakes”: we, and all that we do or don’t do, are the same: empty of true reality or existence.

 

I have only outlined some of the general points. If you believe that you exist and therefore have a mind, that mind will be bubbling with questions"

-- Ajata Project Robert Wolfe

[mmKay]

watch this episode : 
 

it anwsers the question, and if you're lucky it will break you through to experiencing " Mu " 

[Breakingthewall]

@VeganAwake well, ajata says: absolute infinity is nothing. something cannot come out of pure nothing. therefore something is really nothing. Okay... really nothingness is infinite and any finite "something" in infinite nothingness is 0 by contrast or division, but ... observe a bird closely, without thinking, just observe it in the precise present moment. you will see yourself.  the pure being that exists, right here, right now, out of the time. Is it "nothing"?

Edited January 4, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Leo Gura]

Everything is itself, of course.

What else would it be?