Is Enlightenment A Lie?

[Mr Here and Now]

This guy makes some really good points, can you counter his arguments as it's turning me away from this enlightenment path! Please watch the full video, or at least, try to.

 

Edited September 28, 2016 by Davie

[comp13]

@Davie I didn't listen to much of it, but it sounds like he's all about wanting evidence. 

If you were a two dimensional being created on a piece of paper by a three dimensional being, would there be any way of providing evidence on a three dimensional being?

Personally, I think the uncertainty principle and quantum entanglement are two great examples of how the universe depends on consciousness. 

Edited September 28, 2016 by comp13

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Davie said:

This guy makes some really good points, can you counter his arguments as it's turning me away from this enlightenment path! Please watch the full video, or at least, try to.

 

I would probably feel the same way if I hadn't had a couple of enlightenment experiences to know that there's something there. I don't know how someone would keep up their resolve without having had a glimpse. That said, it may be a good thing to suspend belief in enlightenment, and instead simply seek truth for the sake of seeking truth. This will probably yield you better results in the long run because one of my big attachments is attachment to enlightenment. I don't have the luxury of suspending belief in it as easily though because I have memories of my experiences. But because you're presumably a tabula rasa, suspending belief in enlightenment may be good as long as you don't abdicate the search for truth. There really is no way back from where you are now. There is only the option to remain where you are or go forward. 

[Leo Gura]

Evidence: 30mg 5-MeO-DMT up the nostrils + 15 minutes.

Case closed.

[key]

This is based on the premise of there being an external & internal experience, though if you look closely enough you can negate the claim of these seperate worlds for yourself. 

Maybe Tai (author of the video) should take up a course in Philosophy on top of his Marketing degree, might open up his mind a little 

[retardedhorse1]

Im just a total newbie but from what ive heard, this guy seems to totally miss the point.

The spiritual journey, from my understanding, is not about ideas or more information.

In fact, its the exact opposite of that.

In a way you want to distance yourself from all conceptual knowledge and strip away all the "bs" to see reality in its essence.

That can be a much more powerfull place to live from and will give you a completely new perspective on the conceptual world.

 

 

[kurt]

Who cares?

[Dodo]

20 minutes ago, kurt said:

Who cares?

Krishna

[kurt]

Just now, Dodoster said:

Krishna

No, I meant, who gives a toss id enlightenment is a lie or not

[Self-Mastery]

@Davie It seems that he is confused. He thinks that life is only limited to success, advancement, innovation, progress, civilization, morality, empire, science, Nobel Prize, technology, etc. He inherently values these aspects of life. And, I agree that all of them can be achieved externally. However, note that all of our disasters like war, terrorism, etc also come from this type of thinking. As pascal pointed out "All human evil comes from a single cause, man's inability to sit still in a room." Contemplate the notion that there may be something beyond all of these in life something beyond civilization, advancement, etc.  And, that is to know yourself, and it comes only internally.   

By the way, there is nothing wrong with external benefits like success, advancement, etc, but it is secondary at best.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Seyed

[Leo Gura]

@Seyed Well said.

@Davie Notice carefully how Tai's business, his speaking, his marketing, his selection of books and video topics -- and basically everything he does -- is a reflection of his Spiral Dynamics stage Orange level of consciousness. His internal development is creating a glass ceiling on his actions, which are then used by his mind to justify his current level of internal development. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. This is the very real danger of closedmindedness. This is especially dangerous with him because he's been so successful. It's EXTREMELY hard now for him to realize that all that success is built on delusion. Because he believes success defines truth. For him to come around would probably create a nervous breakdown, or a serious case of dark night of the soul type depression. It would be a VERY rude awakening. So it's not likely to happen without some hard external force. (5-meo would probably get the job done, but of course he's unlikely to ever try it, and it would be a painful experience for him.)

This is what happens when you don't take epistemology seriously and don't see your own blindspots.

Watch out, because it's not just him. The EXACT SAME THING IS HAPPENING IN YOU!

Can you see it?

[Emerald]

 

Quote

@Davie Notice carefully how Tai's business, his speaking, his marketing, his selection of books and video topics -- and basically everything he does -- is a reflection of his Spiral Dynamics stage Orange level of consciousness. His internal development is creating a glass ceiling on his actions, which are then used by his mind to justify his current level of internal development. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. This is the very real danger of closedmindedness. This is especially dangerous with him because he's been so successful. It's EXTREMELY hard now for him to realize that all that success is built on delusion. Because he believes success defines truth. For him to come around would probably create a nervous breakdown, or a serious case of dark night of the soul type depression. It would be a VERY rude awakening. So it's not likely to happen without some hard external force.

My thoughts on him, exactly. Plus, he clearly exaggerates his previous lack of wealth. He's always saying that he was sleeping on a couch in a mobile home with $47 in his bank account. That means that he never overdraft. He never had less than $47. So, in my book, he was never as hard-up as he claims to have been. Plus, living in a mobile home isn't necessarily indicative of poverty... it's working class.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Emerald Wilkins

[Mr Here and Now]

@Leo Gura Yes I can. Thank you for the reply. I always wanted to hear your thoughts on this video.

[Anlib]

@Leo Gura do you mean that the lower level of conciousness you have when u take this drug, the more pain u will recieve? I mean u say to you audience that they should concider taking this drug, but I don't think that many people are more developed that Tai. I mean, I think most of you audience are lower consiousness than average. What type of person are searching on yt to get their problems solved by a video? Dont get me wrong, most of your videos are fucking awsome:) but i often feel like you often say thing's in you videos to make me/us feel like we have more consionusness than most of us have. This is aviously for marketing reasons so people subscribe to your channel, but if you're saying that thai would have a nervuos breakdown because of his "deluded belives" who would'nt? Would I have a nervous breakdown because I suddenly realize that im not a human?

[Neo]

Quote

do you mean that the lower level of conciousness you have when u take this drug, the more pain u will recieve? I mean u say to you audience that they should concider taking this drug, but I don't think that many people are more developed that Tai. I mean, I think most of you audience are lower consiousness than average. What type of person are searching on yt to get their problems solved by a video? Dont get me wrong, most of your videos are fucking awsome:) but i often feel like you often say thing's in you videos to make me/us feel like we have more consionusness than most of us have. This is aviously for marketing reasons so people subscribe to your channel, but if you're saying that thai would have a nervuos breakdown because of his "deluded belives" who would'nt? Would I have a nervous breakdown because I suddenly realize that im not a human?

A wouldn't like to estimate the proportion of Leo's audience who shouldn't be taking the drug for whatever reason, underage, vulnerable, not ready, but I fall into the camp that was watching authentic growth in myself that is very challenging only to be disappointed by a seeming cop-out on Leo's part and a strange turn in the course of his videos. Sorry Leo.

[Esoteric]

6 hours ago, Anlib said:

@Leo Gura do you mean that the lower level of conciousness you have when u take this drug, the more pain u will recieve? I mean u say to you audience that they should concider taking this drug, but I don't think that many people are more developed that Tai. I mean, I think most of you audience are lower consiousness than average. What type of person are searching on yt to get their problems solved by a video? Dont get me wrong, most of your videos are fucking awsome:) but i often feel like you often say thing's in you videos to make me/us feel like we have more consionusness than most of us have. This is aviously for marketing reasons so people subscribe to your channel, but if you're saying that thai would have a nervuos breakdown because of his "deluded belives" who would'nt? Would I have a nervous breakdown because I suddenly realize that im not a human?

How is it a sign of low consciousness because you seek tools to improve yourself? And you are also making really big assumption that people simply want a video to solve their problems when basically all of Leo's videos stress the fact that a big chunk of work is required for any type of personal growth and progress. The average person fool themselves into believing they have control and that life is about climbing up career and status wise, not even wanting to really take a good look at what they are really doing with their lives and what life is. So no, I would not say there are more "low conscious beings" here than "average", should be the other way around if anything. 

[Ozzy]

"There are drugs which can alter your conciousness so much that you lose the sense of self. That proves my points and disproves yours. Also taking it can result in fear, terror and fucking up your head. But that's cool cuz you need to do it. Because this is what I said. Don't wanna take this totally safe substance? Ok, I win the discussion peace out" ~Reasonable person

[Neo]

Quote

I understand what it might look like.

Do you? What if I was to tell you, that you MUST question everything including your own sensibilities, notions, beliefs, standards, hang-ups, prejuices and pre-dispositions, even morals, and even your own existence. You need radical openmindedness for any of what I say to you to work, and now I hand you a bag of crack cocaine - here, now take this.

[Neo]

Yes, of course, it's not lost on me, thank you.

[Neo]

Today's Bible Lesson:

Matthew 4.

Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted there by the devil. 2For forty days and forty nights he fasted and became very hungry.

3During that time the devila came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become loaves of bread.”

4But Jesus told him, “No! The Scriptures say,

‘People do not live by bread alone,

but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’b”

5Then the devil took him to the holy city, Jerusalem, to the highest point of the Temple, 6and said, “If you are the Son of God, jump off! For the Scriptures say,

‘He will order his angels to protect you.

And they will hold you up with their hands

so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’c”

7Jesus responded, “The Scriptures also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’d”

8Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9“I will give it all to you,” he said, “if you will kneel down and worship me.”

10“Get out of here, Satan,” Jesus told him. “For the Scriptures say,

‘You must worship the Lord your God

and serve only him.’e”