vegan wanting to eat meat again!

[lau]

i have been strictly vegan for almost 8 years, eating whole foods and mostly organic (but i still ate raw honey everyday). overall i feel great, but i recently started to feel dizzy and i thought that maybe i was missing something in my diet. something that suited me in the past may not be the best for me right now... i have never been vegan for the animals but primarily because i thought this was THE BEST diet for human beings and i wanted to feel the best possible. i am starting to have some doubt about having a 100% vegan diet. 

i also take supplements of vit D, omegas/DHA, chlorella, spirulina and make cold pressed juices as often as i can!

but, is meat and fish really bad for us? 

NB: by meat and fish i mean, organic, grass-fed animals, and no hormones. 

i was thinking that maybe having a hunter-gatherers type of diet would be better for us, humans. eating primarily a whole-food plant based diet, but adding wild salmon and grass-fed meat and poultry about twice a month.

 

what are your thoughts about that?

 

thank you

laura x

Edited January 3, 2021 by lau
my explanation was not clear enough.

[Michal__]

Try plant based. You will still get all the benefits, but you don't need to be strict.

Like 90% vegan & eat animal products sometimes.

There's no need to be dogmatic about a diet & it never hurts to experiment.

[BlackMaze]

Just stop being afraid to eat animal food sources. Continue being a vegan if you want but if you rarely want to eat some meat just eat it. Don't deny yourself some animal food all the time just because you have the identity of a vegan. Try to eat an egg again or some meat  or fish as an experiment and notice how you feel. If you feel better then maybe it's better for your body to eat some of these things sometimes. Find what works for your body and try to not be dogmatic. I was a vegan for almost a year btw and i found out that i feel better with some meat here and there. 

[No Self]

Keep in mind that the world is changing. I am noticing new meat-substitute products on the market all the time which has added heaps more variety to my diet, and future technologies like lab-grown meat is also on the way. The issues of animal cruelty and bovine methane emissions will mercifully be a thing of the past one day, but the next few decades will be a time of transition.

Anyone who even engages with this issue on any level has my respect. Be true to yourself.

[Michael569]

Follow your intuition ?

[Scholar]

The question should not be about fish or meat, but rather about insects. Primates primarly consume insects in terms of animal flesh, not cows nor fish.

 

If you feel like you lack something you should try to consume insects, they are probably the healthiest option you can pick and also the most environmentally friendly one.

 

Although I do not quite understand why you have your doubt about this if overall you are feeling great. If you want to do a tradtional human diet, then consume insects. All the evidence points to us not having truly adapted to consuming animals like mammals or birds, not even the Intuit who almost exclusively consumed animals for god knows how long. The evidences point to it being completely unnecessary in our age, especially with supplementation, but if the suffering of others is not of your concern then you could opt for consuming insects.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Scholar

[Village]

@Scholar I'll just leave this here.

Since you think you're a baboon, I was wondering why you don't base your diet on unripe fruit which you ferment in your colon, beside the insects?

[Scholar]

12 minutes ago, Village said:

@Scholar I'll just leave this here.

Since you think you're a baboon, I was wondering why you don't base your diet on unripe fruit which you ferment in your colon, beside the insects?

And how exactly does this tell us humans should eat cows rather than insects? This graph basically shows us that humans have been cooking their vegetables long enough for rather minor adaptations to the size of certain organs to occur.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Scholar

[Village]

@Scholar You can eat insects if you have to, though by instinct they are unappealing since many of them are toxic and they're anyhow less nutritious than other animals (I don't get what makes you think we should prefer them above cows). Does seeing a cockroach make your mouth water? If not, then you're not a baboon and your question is answered. 

Those vegetables you're talking about don't exist in nature and were cultivated by humans a few hundred to a few thousand years ago, which is certainly not enough time for your entire digestive tract to change - which it won't anyway - if you feed a wolf grains it'll just get sick and die prematurely, not "evolve" into a herbivore. We didn't have domesticated cows 10,000 years ago, true, but we just hunted wild buffalo or mammoths instead. Human is an apex predator (hence the carnivorous digestive tract), we're not bound to live off of ants.

@lau Go for it, you won't regret it. 

[Scholar]

Just now, Village said:

@Scholar You can eat insects if you have to, though by instinct they are unappealing since many of them are toxic and they're anyhow less nutritious than other animals (I don't get what makes you think we should prefer them above cows). Does seeing a cockroach make your mouth water? If not, then you're not a baboon and your question is answered. 

Those vegetables you're talking about don't exist in nature and were cultivated by humans a few hundred to a few thousand years ago, which is certainly not enough time for your entire digestive tract to change - which it won't anyway - if you feed a wolf grains it'll just get sick and die prematurely, not "evolve" into a herbivore. We didn't have domesticated cows 10,000 years ago, true, but we just hunted wild buffalo or mammoths instead. Human is an apex predator (hence the carnivorous digestive tract), we're not bound to live off of ants.

@lau Go for it, you won't regret it. 

Does seeing a cow make your mouth water? I don't think so, you have been culturally indoctronated into enjoying foods that resemble more a vegetable than actualy flesh or animal. You season your steaks with vegetables so you can enjoy them. 2 billion people consume insects, the only reason you view them to be so disgusting is because you have been conditioned this way. It's fallacious to assume that anything that is unappealing to you is bad for you, by that metric sugary sweets and hamburgers would be healthy and broccoli would be unhealthy.

The reason why I am saying that insects, aside from pure evolutionary reasons, are better is because the science supports it. They are lower in saturated fats and cholesterol, and you need to consume a far lower amount of them to get the nutrients you need, as they are far more rich in those than mammalian or avian counterparts.

 

We were primates that consumed raw veggies and fruit and as our ability to cook our food flourished we became more adapted to cooked food. Our entire digestive tract did not change, changes in size are far different than systemic changes to an organism. This is why for example humans get heart disease and other issues from consuming animal products and why the science keeps over and over showing us that vegans have the best health outcomes among the population. Many animals that we consider herbivores can consume flesh, like deer for example. This does not mean it is healthy for them, it simply means they have the ability to digest it in a way for them to gain calories that are necessary for survival. Do not forget, evolution doesn't select for longevity, it selects for reproduction. Humans do not rip animals apart alive and eat their guts, our digestive tract is anything but carnivorous. Heart disease can take decades to develope, getting your calories to survive the winter is a far higher priority. Evolution also doesn't create perfect organisms that are perfectly adapted to their environment. We are very much a work in progress, and many behaviors might be benefitial for immediate survival and reproducton, but not to thriving and longevity. This is not how any of this works, which is why actual health outcome data is far more relevant than any anthropological projections ever could be.

By the way the graph you shows ironically supports the theory that human beings are primarily plant based animals, as a longer small intestine allows to digest and absorb more nutrients.

 

I would recommend you to stop listening to quacks on youtube or dentists who pretend to be nutritionists. Your arguments are full of fallacious thinking, which is something that is very common among carnivory proponents.

[Village]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

Does seeing a cow make your mouth water? I don't think so, you have been culturally indoctronated into enjoying foods that resemble more a vegetable than actualy flesh or animal. You season your steaks with vegetables so you can enjoy them. 2 billion people consume insects, the only reason you view them to be so disgusting is because you have been conditioned this way. It's fallacious to assume that anything that is unappealing to you is bad for you, by that metric sugary sweets and hamburgers would be healthy and broccoli would be unhealthy.

Yes, the moment I see its red flesh. 

How can I be culturally indoctrinated to enjoy my *natural diet*? I was rather told that veggies are healthy, despite my instincts telling me to spit them out. Ironically you think I season or even cook my meat, which I don't - I eat it raw without even a pinch of salt and it's the perfect food. People who overcook their meat need to season it because it's not even meat anymore. And do you eat raw broccoli, or do you cook it, salt it, season it and mix it with 10 other ingredients? Go eat a whole bowl of raw spinach. Chimps do and they enjoy it, as it is their natural diet. Humans have to hide the taste and pretend they enjoy it because someone told them it's healthy (oxalates, nitrates, phytates... yuck).

Sweets and burgers are synthetic foods that were made to manipulate your taste buds, hence they're irrelevant to the argument. As I said, you can eat insects, it's simply that they are a survival food and are much less appealing or nutritious than a nice lamb steak.

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

The reason why I am saying that insects, aside from pure evolutionary reasons, are better is because the science supports it. They are lower in saturated fats and cholesterol, and you need to consume a far lower amount of them to get the nutrients you need, as they are far more rich in those than mammalian or avian counterparts.

As I said, less nutritious. All of your cells are made of saturated fat, your brain is made of cholesterol, the most prized and healthiest foods in nature are rich in cholesterol & saturated fat (brain, liver, fish roe, eggs), breast milk is rich in cholesterol & saturated fat and it's the only food a baby needs. Even monkeys ferment fiber in their colon and turn it into saturated fat, which you can't btw as you fiber is indigestible for humans. If despite all of this you're gonna spout agenda-driven psuedo-science, you're a religious person.

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

We were primates that consumed raw veggies and fruit and as our ability to cook our food flourished we became more adapted to cooked food. Our entire digestive tract did not change, changes in size are far different than systemic changes to an organism. This is why for example humans get heart disease and other issues from consuming animal products and why the science keeps over and over showing us that vegans have the best health outcomes among the population. Many animals that we consider herbivores can consume flesh, like deer for example. This does not mean it is healthy for them, it simply means they have the ability to digest it in a way for them to gain calories that are necessary for survival. Do not forget, evolution doesn't select for longevity, it selects for reproduction. Humans do not rip animals apart alive and eat their guts, our digestive tract is anything but carnivorous. Heart disease can take decades to develope, getting your calories to survive the winter is a far higher priority. Evolution also doesn't create perfect organisms that are perfectly adapted to their environment. We are very much a work in progress, and many behaviors might be benefitial for immediate survival and reproducton, but not to thriving and longevity. This is not how any of this works, which is why actual health outcome data is far more relevant than any anthropological projections ever could be.

What veggies did our ancestors consume, exactly? You do know that all veggies are man-made, right? We had some fruit in season, which was much smaller and not as sweet as modern fruit. To think that anyone based their diet on it is laughable. That's why there was never a single vegan tribe on earth.

Heart disease is a modern disease caused by sugar and vegetable oils, it was almost nonexistent 100 years ago. It has nothing to do with meat that we've been eating forever.

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

By the way the graph you shows ironically supports the theory that human beings are primarily plant based animals, as a longer small intestine allows to digest and absorb more nutrients.

You're not making a lot of sense..? Watch and compare

Edited January 3, 2021 by Village

[Scholar]

6 minutes ago, Village said:

Yes, the moment I see its red flesh. 

How can I be culturally indoctrinated to enjoy my *natural diet*? I was rather told that veggies are healthy, despite my instincts telling me to spit them out. Ironically you think I season or even cook my meat, which I don't - I eat it raw without even a pinch of salt and it's the perfect food. People who overcook their meat need to season it because it's not even meat anymore. And do you eat raw broccoli, or do you cook it, salt it, season it and mix it with 10 other ingredients? Go eat a whole bowl of raw spinach. Chimps do and they enjoy it, as it is their natural diet. Humans have to hide the taste and pretend they enjoy it because someone told them it's healthy (oxalates, nitrates, phytates... yuck).

Sweets and burgers are synthetic foods that were made to manipulate your taste buds, hence they're irrelevant to the argument. As I said, you can eat insects, it's simply that they are a survival food and are much less appealing or nutritious than a nice lamb steak.

As I said, less nutritious. All of your cells are made of saturated fat, your brain is made of cholesterol, the most prized and healthiest foods in nature are rich in cholesterol & saturated fat (brain, liver, fish roe, eggs), breast milk is rich in cholesterol & saturated fat and it's the only food a baby needs. Even monkeys ferment fiber in their colon and turn it into saturated fat, which you can't btw as you fiber is indigestible for humans. If despite all of this you're gonna spout agenda-driven psuedo-science, you're a religious person.

What veggies did our ancestors consume, exactly? You do know that all veggies are man-made, right? We had some fruit in season, which was much smaller and not as sweet as modern fruit. To think that anyone based their diet on it is laughable. That's why there was never a single vegan tribe on earth.

Heart disease is a modern disease caused by sugar and vegetable oils, it was almost nonexistent 100 years ago. It has nothing to do with meat that we've been eating forever.

You're not making a lot of sense..? Watch and compare

Brother, you hare successfully self-indoctronated yourself.

[Village]

@Scholar Says a vegan, I assume?

[Village]

30 minutes ago, datamonster said:

LOL who gives a fuck what our ancestors used to eat? What relevance does it have?

All that matters is what works for you today in the 21st century. And guess what, things have changed a little over the last 100,000 years...

yeeaaa br0 its 2021 bro lets ignore the fact that humans have a carnivorous digestive tract and lets become herbivores overnight! yea man we're cool trendy vegans yooo 

[Scholar]

10 minutes ago, Village said:

yeeaaa br0 its 2021 bro lets ignore the fact that humans have a carnivorous digestive tract and lets become herbivores overnight! yea man we're cool trendy vegans yooo 

Let us not fight brother. Your hatred is fueled by your fear.

[Villager Albert]

@lau I don't think meat is unhealthy but you don't need it either.

It's easier to get enough nutrients with meat in your diet but if you care about the animals you can take a few supplements instead.

The ones you're already taking are awesome but I'd also supplement with B complex (make sure it has biotin and B12), zinc, iron and vitamin K2.

Some people will get away without taking these but you wouldn't feel dizzy or crave meat if you weren't deficient in some of these.

To make sure you're getting enough you can just get your blood tested.

Hope it'll get better <3

[StarStruck]

Eat GRASS fed beef. It will be the best decision you will make. You will stop feeling like a vegetable and actually what you are: a human.

Also I agree what others say: listen to the needs of your body. Try grass fed beef and see how you feel.

You have nothing to lose and you have nothing to prove to that toxic vegan community who police people around. Tell them to fuck off.

[Village]

On 1/3/2021 at 7:32 PM, Scholar said:

Let us not fight brother. Your hatred is fueled by your fear.

What is this pseudo-spiritual nonsense about hatred now? I'm actually doing you a loving favour by helping you snap out of your religion, so if you have nothing better to say then just say "thanks, I'll reconsider veganism".

On 1/3/2021 at 7:43 PM, datamonster said:

Well, they don't, but again what relevance does our digestive tract have? 

Even if humans were pure carnivores it is still a fact that we can thrive on plants. It's also a fact that we're causing tremendous harm to our environment through excessive meat consumption.

Thus, it would still make sense for us today not to eat like cavemen even if that was more "natural".

Thrive? You can survive on it for 5-10-15 years (depending how good your diet was prior to veganism) while having to pop synthetic toxic pills everyday, until you'll finally develop very serious issues. Nobody ever thrived on veganism, it was always either a form of fasting or a slave diet (also a concentration camp diet). You can't "fix" nature, it'll always end up a disaster.

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, Village said:

What is this pseudo-spiritual nonsense about hatred now? I'm actually doing you a loving favour by helping you snap out of your religion, so if you have nothing better to say then just say "thanks, I'll reconsider veganism".

I am not interested in playing ego-games with you my brother. As I said, I hope one day you can open your heart so that you do not have to live your life from a place of fear, hatred and judgement.

[SgtPepper]

Then eat meat.

There is no solid evidence to suggest that meat is unhealthy OR that Veganism is the healthiest optimal diet for humans.

There is solid evidence that meat (which is filled with fats) contributed to human brain development.

There is evidence that a Vegan diet DOES NOT provide necessary nutrients like b12, Vitamin A, DHA & EPA; and additional nutrients like creatine, carnosine, taurine, and more that participate in your well-being. 

And Vegans will tell you, that you can supplement away all of these nutrients. So go ahead and do that if you think that's the wisest way to live.