New here, the case with right & left politics

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Nyseto said:

Would you agree that both sides have their fair share of propaganda about each other? They point out each other's devilry without self reflection? 

They both have it, but the right-wing is 10x to 50x worse.

[Nyseto]

52 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They both have it, but the right-wing is 10x to 50x worse.

I can't disagree to that as I've seen plenty of savage propaganda coming from the right. However I think that's also because the right is less reserved from being politically correct so they have a better sense of humor but as a result they're more unhinged in their ways.

I'd say that as far as physical damage in the form of violence and vandalism is concerned, the left takes the cake on that one though. I mean I've seen violence coming from the right but not like you see in the amounts from the left. Especially for 2020. 

One thing that strikes me is that the left has nearly all the minority groups going for them. The right says that the reason for that is to create a democratic majority through minority groups by pandering to anyone who feels oppressed. Then again, I've also seen minorities going from left to right because they're sick of being fed the same old "you're oppressed, America hates you" rhetoric. 

Leo, maybe the left you're talking about that's better than the right wing is the more classical left, not this neo left we have going on. There's a reason why I've heard many leftists say, "I didn't leave the party, the party left me." 20, 30 years ago, no one was concerned with 99 genders, all of a sudden tearing down statues that have been up for more than a century, etc. The left during Kennedy's era was the higher consciousness left. It's just hard to support this current left that advocates for not assigning babies their gender until they get old enough to decide it on their own. I'm sorry but to me that's some type of mental gymnastics that it's become pure nonsense just like killing in the name of God is.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Nyseto

[No Self]

4 hours ago, Talinn said:

Believe it or not, there's people out there that are legitimately concerned about where they can go to the bathroom. 

I believe it. Sky-high suicide rates for trans people is a statistic that speaks for itself. This is not the argument, it is the insanity of prioritising the 1% over the 99% then expecting to win elections (yes, the right does this to, but they at least pretend that their economic theories will benefit the whole).

Issues like fair living wages, opposing corrupt lobbyist groups, safe working conditions, sustainable population growth (including immigration) and clean air affect the vast majority. A proper left-wing culture would place issues like these first.

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They both have it, but the right-wing is 10x to 50x worse.

Yes, the far-right is uniquely militant. No effort is made to act in good faith, as the name of the game is winning at any cost. This is partly necessary as they do represent a minority who must compensate for their numbers with sheer aggression.

2 hours ago, Nyseto said:

One thing that strikes me is that the left has nearly all the minority groups going for them.

They do, but in the process they form a very divided culture. For example, the feminist groups would want a woman as president regardless of policies on the myriad of complex issues. (All things being equal, I'd support this, but it does defy commonsense in practice.) Such voters would not want to support any male candidate. Again, we have a situation where the left has divorced itself from being sensible and reasonable, being too at war with itself to be compelling to an average person.

Those who voted for Trump in the hope of bitch-slapping the left into being sane again have a valid grievance that sadly has still not been properly recognised by the mainstream.

 

[Talinn]

7 hours ago, Nyseto said:

Leo, maybe the left you're talking about that's better than the right wing is the more classical left, not this neo left we have going on. There's a reason why I've heard many leftists say, "I didn't leave the party, the party left me." 20, 30 years ago, no one was concerned with 99 genders, all of a sudden tearing down statues that have been up for more than a century, etc. The left during Kennedy's era was the higher consciousness left. It's just hard to support this current left that advocates for not assigning babies their gender until they get old enough to decide it on their own. I'm sorry but to me that's some type of mental gymnastics that it's become pure nonsense just like killing in the name of God is.

Surely new national thought on gender roles is more agreeable than actually taking somebody's life. Pay attention to what you're writing. 

What's insane is that people quote the 99% vs. 1% dilemma. Yet based on the way they react, I do say that they may as well feel that transgenders are 99% of the population, and cisgenders are only 1%, gauging by their fears of gender norms changing to any degree. 

Maybe not here, but I've repeatedly seen this strange conception that transgenders breed like rabbits and are planning on taking over society. This 99 versus 1% rhetoric is often just gaslighting to say that we're scared of the transgenders breeding like rabbits, and don't want to afford them any rights whatsoever. Yes this is a hop skip and a jump over to over-generalizations and demonization of the right, yet the U.S. doesn't have the greatest record when dealing with minorities does it? No country on earth quite does, yet.  

[Nyseto]

6 hours ago, Talinn said:

Surely new national thought on gender roles is more agreeable than actually taking somebody's life. Pay attention to what you're writing. 

What's insane is that people quote the 99% vs. 1% dilemma. Yet based on the way they react, I do say that they may as well feel that transgenders are 99% of the population, and cisgenders are only 1%, gauging by their fears of gender norms changing to any degree. 

Maybe not here, but I've repeatedly seen this strange conception that transgenders breed like rabbits and are planning on taking over society. This 99 versus 1% rhetoric is often just gaslighting to say that we're scared of the transgenders breeding like rabbits, and don't want to afford them any rights whatsoever. Yes this is a hop skip and a jump over to over-generalizations and demonization of the right, yet the U.S. doesn't have the greatest record when dealing with minorities does it? No country on earth quite does, yet.  

There was a point in time when killing in the name of God was highly agreed upon throughout a nation. I was just using a more extreme example to make my point at how nonsensical the baby gender thing was. 

And yes, I can see how over generalizations are used to demonize the opposing side just like how leftists think every republican is a racist. The thing is that since the ego runs on fear, it holds the biggest threats to it at its forefront while disregarding the 99% and rationalizes that fear that if 1% of the opposing side is bad, it will progressively spread like a metastatic cancer where it will go from 1 to 10 to 30, etc. I've been very guilty of the 99 vs. 1% dilemma in the past in nearly all areas of life and I think it had more to do with my upbringing due to my family being Romanian where communism and dictatorship was rampant at one point. There are instances where the 1% managed to eventually spread to a majority, however but I guess as with all things in life, you can never be 100% certain. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Nyseto

[Leo Gura]

15 hours ago, Nyseto said:

think that's also because the right is less reserved from being politically correct so they have a better sense of humor

Hahahahahahahaha...

[Lyubov]

You guys know that thread currently on the same page about how the right is better at framing and whatnot? Anyways in it I said they aren’t better at it. They just poison the well and create confusion in people, creating false equivalences and apathy. This thread we are in now is a perfect example of just this. 

[Yog]

What about we think of it this way ? Its a bit abstract, but still, I am going to merge it with a computer analogy to be more relatable.

Lets say that any next stage in ego development is in part an update and a part malware the same time.

-The right is the the curent version of the system, along with few backups. It governs the hard-drive and the antivirus too.
It has a lot of QA tested knowledge and turned it into wisdom. But it also has aspects of its system that are limiting, outdated, old and decrepit. They do not fulfill the computer user needs.

-The space where-from the update/malware complex comes, always feels like the left. Its new challenging knowledge, ways pf approaching and dealing with things.


Now its the systems duty to filter out the malware and receive the update. So this needs to happen and it is the healthy way to go. The problem arises when the system sees a malware file in the update and completely marks the update file as malware, or sometimes it can mistake that because the update files are changing other files in the system, than it must be a malware, and marks it that way.

This cant wok, its in the nature of these consciousness updates to have a malware component. Treating everything incoming as a malware is not a good long term idea. This is ofc, the ego of the system, trying to preserve itself, keep the current form for as long as possible. Its a pathology that is common on the right. Protector memes, protect against everything, and in worse cases crusader memes crusade against everything.

The thing with the left is that it behaves as if it all were and update, it can be ignorant of the malware component quite often, all the software they got, they want to install it. This is the unhealthy left. regardless of if we got a healthy right wing or an unhealthy one, they will pick on the malware and try to take it out. So backlash from the right is inevitable. It is desirable in its healthy form and less desirable in its unhealthy form.



If it were to go into some smooth ideal way, it would look something like.

-The right acknowledges the need for an update and accepts it, in the meantime it quarantines the malware component. It accepts that some of its files will still be modified, that is the nature of an update and this is best for the system.
-The left acknowledges that part of it is an update and part malware, it follows trough by having its update installed and malware removed.

As i said, its an ideal situation, in order for it to happen both sides need to have an increase in self reflection. Something rarely seen on both camps these days. This is what creates the polarization we have. If we were to be less polarized, in a way it means we will have to let go of what we hold so dear and test it in the fire. In a more ideal sci-fi situation everyone should be right and left wing at the same time.

It leads me to think that the best and healthiest way to go is to be more concerned with the integrity of your knowledge, test it in the fire, and be less concerned with the flaws of your perceived opponent.

[Yog]

16 hours ago, Nyseto said:

they have a better sense of humor but as a result they're more unhinged in their ways.

I've observed this in another way too. The right does memes extremely good.

And I thought, huh, this is because they tend to be around stage blue, a stage where archetypal, meme-like view of the world is very present, almost if everything  is seen as a tiny abstract story, a meme. So no wonder their memes are better, they do this all the time, day and night, this is how they do humor best.

Sadly is the very same thing that creates racism, homophobia, ect. there is a meme like thought that goes with the person being marked. The division creating, cutting mechanism in the mind of a stage blue person is more meme like, opposed to lets say the more surgical ones that you find at the higher stages. Or at least that is how it seems to me.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Yog

[Nyseto]

1 hour ago, Yog said:

I've observed this in another way too. The right does memes extremely good.

And I thought, huh, this is because they tend to be around stage blue, a stage where archetypal, meme-like view of the world is very present, almost if everything  is seen as a tiny abstract story, a meme. So no wonder their memes are better, they do this all the time, day and night, this is how they do humor best.

Sadly is the very same thing that creates racism, homophobia, ect. there is a meme like thought that goes with the person being marked. The division creating, cutting mechanism in the mind of a stage blue person is more meme like, opposed to lets say the more surgical ones that you find at the higher stages. Or at least that is how it seems to me.

The funny thing is the minorities who are right wing for example: black people cracking racist, self deprecating jokes. The hodgetwins are black and extremely right and crazy hilarious. I heard them talking about how Trump has done more for historic black colleges than any other president and sarcastically saying how "It took a white supremacist to do that." 

Why is it that some minorities feel oppressed and some don't? Lebron definitely feels oppressed when he'd for example go on about "Us black people die to racist police everyday. The amount of systemic racism in this country is overwhelming" even though he makes millions more than the hodgetwins. He condemns white priviledge and the hodgetwins condemn him for black priviledge. Yet the hodgetwins don't feel oppressed, they instead say, "Don't be stupid, and you won't get shot." Do both make valid points, yes. Are the hodgetwins sell outs? We'll never know 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Nyseto

[Nyseto]

2 hours ago, Lyubov said:

You guys know that thread currently on the same page about how the right is better at framing and whatnot? Anyways in it I said they aren’t better at it. They just poison the well and create confusion in people, creating false equivalences and apathy. This thread we are in now is a perfect example of just this. 

At the end of the day I don't see much difference between the right and the left. I've been saying this to my right wing friends and they hate it just as much as leftists do. But both demonize each other and fudge the truth only when it behooves them. They can't exist without each other no more than night can exist without day and that's what they both fail to see.

I have both right and left wing friends. My left leaning friend for Biden said he wants something new and tired of Trump. I told him, "You do know Biden has been at this for 47 years and was VP for 8, don't act like 8 years of being VP has no power just because he wasn't president. Whatever Biden has accomplished in 47 years is questionable but don't think Biden is necessarily something new either." My right wing friends think I'm left and my left wing friends think I'm right. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Nyseto

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Lyubov said:

You guys know that thread currently on the same page about how the right is better at framing and whatnot? Anyways in it I said they aren’t better at it. They just poison the well and create confusion in people, creating false equivalences and apathy. This thread we are in now is a perfect example of just this. 

Some cringe in the thread. 

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, Nyseto said:

At the end of the day I don't see much difference between the right and the left.

That’s low resolution which leads to false equivalency conclusions. Part of deepening understanding is becoming able to recognize more distinctions. 

Imagine someone saying “I don’t see much differene in wood”. To a novice all woods are pretty much the same. Yet someone with deeper understanding, such as a botanist or carpenter, would be able to make many distinctions between different types of wood. 

[Nyseto]

7 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

That’s low resolution which leads to false equivalency conclusions. Part of deepening understanding is becoming able to recognize more distinctions. 

Imagine someone saying “I don’t see much differene in wood”. To a novice all woods are pretty much the same. Yet someone with deeper understanding, such as a botanist or carpenter, would be able to make many distinctions between different types of wood. 

There are aspects of both where there's no difference such as the demonizing and pot calling the kettle black going back and forth. They are very different from each other but also very alike. I guess it's more of a paradox than anything. At the end of the day, everything is just a concept. Love is not knowing. Now I see that reaching a deeper understanding means to just reach a deeper not knowing. I looked at the differences of both and I understand how much I just don't know anymore lol. Awareness by nature is choiceless. Even if it chooses, it chooses from choicelessness. I guess that's what Leo means by higher consciousness as opposed to getting too wrapped up in left vs right.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Nyseto