New here, the case with right & left politics

[Forestluv]

46 minutes ago, Nyseto said:

When in fact, public education and Universal Healthcare is funded by tax payer money and if you are lazy and part take in nothing but devilry, then where is the consideration for the taxpayers contributing to the Universal Healthcare of that individual?

I want universal healthcare but I don't want it to go to waste. 

In a single payer system, your out of pocket expenses will decrease. Even though taxes go up, there will be no copays or deductibles so you will be saving money. Why would you want to pay extra money to billionaire health insurance CEOs for substandard health care and to corrupt pharmaceuticals that put profits over people. The pharmaceutical-engineered opioid crises was a massive violence that caused immense suffering to millions of people. And pharmaceutical companies got away with it. 

There is massive waste in health care right now. The U.S. has one of the most wasteful health care systems in the world. Well, actually that “waste” is our money getting funneled to corrupt health insurance / pharmaceutical CEOs and lobbyists.

And who are these “lazy” people you are referring to? Poor people that are unemployed? Even if we provide the poor with healthcare and they don’t pay into it, everyone’s cost goes down. What you are saying is that you would rather pay MORE money to corrupt billionaires for an inefficient shitty healthcare system, than pay LESS money for a superior health care system if that means “lazy” people get it for free. . .  This is the classic culture war that republicans and corporate democrats use to distract us from seeing corrupt plutocrats are screwing us over.

And Universal Healthcare will increase the health of the entire society. It is a far superior system, you will save money, your health care will not be owned by your employer and the health of society will increase. No developed country in the world would trade their M4A system for the U.S. system. The most conservative politicians in Canada would never run against M4A, it would be political suicide.

I agree that some on the left can be dogmatic have have little tolerance for dissenting views. Yet I also think what the views are is important. If I disagree with someone on the left about the best strategy on how to get M4A. For example, some on the left have been annoyingly dogmatic about forcing an M4A vote. I would probably favor this strategy, yet their are also other strategies to consider and some on the left can get locked into one strategy and get so annoying. Yet this is very different than someone trying to undercut progress toward M4A.The U.S. is decades behind other countries on health care. There are a lot of people suffering and a lot of people on the left are fed up with factually incorrect arguments from the Republicans and corporate Dems like “M4A will cost us trillions more and we can’t afford it”. I would say educating people to overcome right wing and neoliberal propaganda is important, yet sometimes it gets frustrating for the left and they get tired of the bullshit and lose their patience. A good example would be Vaush. Imo, he is doing a good job overall educating the public and persuading people, yet sometimes he gets so frustrated he has emotional tantrums and unloads on people. 

Yet I would agree that there are some on the left that have a lot of energy. This energy is important for progress, yet it can also lead to confrontations.

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Forestluv said:

I’m having a hard time imagining what a Tier 2 Trump supporter would look like. Could you give an example? 

 

33 minutes ago, Nyseto said:

Ben Shapiro 
Tucker Carlson too.

Ben Shapiro and Tucker Carlson are nowhere near Yellow. They are feeding you distorted images of green and the left.

If you want to truly understand the left, start watching serious people on the left.

33 minutes ago, Nyseto said:

I'd say the biggest reason I've been for the right is because I used to be extremely liberal to the point that it was making me more unconscious.

Now I’m not sure if you are serious or trolling. A Poe’s Law challenge

 

[Nyseto]

5 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

 

Ben Shapiro and Tucker Carlson are nowhere near Yellow. They are feeding you distorted images of green and the left.

If you want to truly understand the left, start watching serious people on the left.

How is the left higher consciousness in the USA when it's the party primarily responsible for looting, burning, vandalizing, rioting, and murder? As much as I want to call that right wing propaganda, I can't. They demonize Trump for his slogan with "Make America Great Again" as if it was never great and yet they say that our country is systemically racist, ruled by white supremacists (even though we had a 2 term black president). If only they didn't do those things, they'd have much more credibility. 

What are some serious people on the left?

 

5 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

 

Ben Shapiro and Tucker Carlson are nowhere near Yellow. They are feeding you distorted images of green and the left.

If you want to truly understand the left, start watching serious people on the left.

 

5 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

 

2 hours ago, Forestluv said:

 

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, Nyseto said:

How is the left higher consciousness in the USA when it's the party primarily responsible for looting, burning, vandalizing, rioting, and murder? As much as I want to call that right wing propaganda, I can't. They demonize Trump for his slogan with "Make America Great Again" as if it was never great and yet they say that our country is systemically racist, ruled by white supremacists (even though we had a 2 term black president). If only they didn't do those things, they'd have much more credibility. 

You seem immersed in right wing talking points to me.

5 minutes ago, Nyseto said:

What are some serious people on the left?

If you’re serious in learning about the left, I’d recommend Vaush and Anand Giridharardas. 
I don’t have the patience for it.

[Nyseto]

Well private Healthcare is better quality whereas Universal works on a "wait in line" basis. Anytime something is offered for free, it eliminates variety and decreases quality. 

What I mean by "lazy" people, I'm referring to people taking advantage of welfare. 

Let me ask you this. Why do liberal cities have such high rates of homelessness among many other problems? Liberal cities are prime examples of the left being in control.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Nyseto

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, Nyseto said:

Well private Healthcare is better quality whereas Universal works on a "wait in line" basis. Anytime something is offered for free, it eliminates variety and decreases quality. 

Let me ask you this. Why do liberal cities have such high rates of homelessness among many other problems? 

You are using right-wing talking points. 

The reason I engaged with you was because I thought you were genuine and open-minded in expanding. In my view you want to argue and defend right wing views you are attached to. That’s not something I find inspiring in promoting growth. 

[Nyseto]

Just now, Forestluv said:

You seem immersed in right wing talking points to me.

If you’re serious in learning about the left, I’d recommend Vaush and Anand Giridharardas. 
I don’t have the patience for it.

Well right wing talking points aren't excluding the left. They're very real points based on the left's actions. Can't talk about the right or left individually as they are relative to one another. Thanks for the names, I'll look into them today.

[Nyseto]

12 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

You are using right-wing talking points. 

The reason I engaged with you was because I thought you were genuine and open-minded in expanding your consciousness. I can now see that I was in error and you want to defend right wing views you are attached to. That’s not something I find inspiring in promoting growth. 

I'm not trying to defend right wing views, I'm trying to see if anyone can acknowledge right wing views as being as equally substantial as left wing views. The first thing I looked at was the guidelines and saw right wing views being mentioned as a no no but I didn't see anything about left wing or communism being a no no. It's like whenever something comes from the right wing, it's not valid. But when it comes from the left, it most certainly is valid. The left wouldn't even exist without the right and vice versa. 

Maybe the whole "low/high consciousness" of politics is jusy another way of saying right vs. Wrong. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Nyseto

[Forestluv]

@Nyseto

You seem to be in a whirlpool that I’m not interested in engaging with. 

You are allowed to write about right wing ideology on the forum as long as you aren’t closed-minded and pushing an agenda. 

[Danioover9000]

@Nyseto  Right wing views are equal to/greater than/lesser than centrist and leftist counter parts, factoring in geography, culture, food resources, economy, and socio-political climate, and vise-versa with left wing and moderate views. Happy?

   If you are too attached to your position you're claiming in this thread, you will not be happy and continue trying to probe mods and users time here, making us suffer and yourself suffer with this back and forth, when it's better spent on self reflections. Same if you're trolling. Likewise, if you are happy with this post, and decide to stop engaging with this topic, you are an idiot for not bringing and touching on the relativity of right wing/centrist/left wing views here, and asking about why the forum is what it is lately. Likewise, if you can admit the possibility that your views are relative, and might be wrong, detach from your position and spend time contemplating your role here, you'd have less suffering and be happy with your use of time elsewhere than being in a back and forth debate here.

   So, which will it be: unhappy idiot, or happy self actualiser?

Edited January 2, 2021 by Danioover9000

[Talinn]

I don't have any idea of how you can live in America and be scared of communism. Capitalism is everywhere. It's in the walls, it's in the air, it has suffused the country for generations and penetrated every aspect of society. What makes you have any notion that we are about to become communist? Sure, abrupt turns in societies are possible, yet the ingredients for such a shift to communism simply don't exist. On the other hand fascism can and does piggy back much more readily off the backs of capitalism/individualism. 

Does a 2nd ammendment bumper sticker that says "GOT LEAD" really exude better vibes than a "SAVE the Planet" bumper sticker? 

[Nyseto]

4 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

From my perspective, you aren’t aware of the whirlpool you are in and don’t seem interested in expanding beyond it. 

You are allowed to write about right wing ideology as long as you aren’t closed-minded and pushing an agenda. 

I just watched Anand talk about being how it's immoral to have billionaires. I was kind of left speechless when he said we've been trying to allow billionaires to be for the past few decades and it hasn't worked. Because my thought was well of course we have billionaires because they were able to become billionaires in the first place. It's like saying Trump pays little in taxes. Of course he does because we made the system that way where the government gives tax breaks for creating housing and jobs. Even Robert Kiyosaki advocates investing over being an employee for the reason that you simply get tax breaks. 

If we are talking about an innovator such as Zuckerberg, he must have some sort of greater wealth over any of his employees due to the fact that innovative (not investor type) billionaires were the ones who came up with an idea. The extent of that wealth going into the billions is very questionable but nonetheless, coming with an amazing idea should be rewarded greatly as not everyone can do it.

[Nyseto]

47 minutes ago, Talinn said:

I don't have any idea of how you can live in America and be scared of communism. Capitalism is everywhere. It's in the walls, it's in the air, it has suffused the country for generations and penetrated every aspect of society. What makes you have any notion that we are about to become communist? Sure, abrupt turns in societies are possible, yet the ingredients for such a shift to communism simply don't exist. On the other hand fascism can and does piggy back much more readily off the backs of capitalism/individualism. 

Does a 2nd ammendment bumper sticker that says "GOT LEAD" really exude better vibes than a "SAVE the Planet" bumper sticker? 

I think it's due to pessimism coming from the right when they see examples in other countries. They see it as "Well if you take my finger today, tomorrow you'll take my hand and then my arm." Many right wingers say that you have to vote for socialism, but shoot your way out for example. They see it as giving up a freedom such as owning certain guns in exchange for security as a big mistake. 

However I don't think America could ever be communist for the simple reason that it has been vastly capitalist prior unlike China and Russia. It would snap back like a rubber band so hard to the likes of which were never seen. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Nyseto

[Forestluv]

@Nyseto It doesn’t seem like Anand worked for you. Perhaps Vaush might work. No one else comes to mind. 

[Nyseto]

58 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Nyseto  Right wing views are equal to/greater than/lesser than centrist and leftist counter parts, factoring in geography, culture, food resources, economy, and socio-political climate, and vise-versa with left wing and moderate views. Happy?

   If you are too attached to your position you're claiming in this thread, you will not be happy and continue trying to probe mods and users time here, making us suffer and yourself suffer with this back and forth, when it's better spent on self reflections. Same if you're trolling. Likewise, if you are happy with this post, and decide to stop engaging with this topic, you are an idiot for not bringing and touching on the relativity of right wing/centrist/left wing views here, and asking about why the forum is what it is lately. Likewise, if you can admit the possibility that your views are relative, and might be wrong, detach from your position and spend time contemplating your role here, you'd have less suffering and be happy with your use of time elsewhere than being in a back and forth debate here.

   So, which will it be: unhappy idiot, or happy self actualiser?

Lol I've been happy. I don't know why this forum is what it is lately, so you tell me since I'm new?

Anytime I listen to an individual who has awakened or has been awakening such as Eckhart or Rupert, my first curiosity is what does an individual like that think about the right vs. left or Trump especially? Because if they start bashing Trump but never the left as well, then my ego automatically assumes oh man...yup...they're a leftist which decreases their credibility. 

[No Self]

1 hour ago, Nyseto said:

I'm trying to see if anyone can acknowledge right wing views as being as equally substantial as left wing views.

I can't do that, but I can put my hand up for acknowledging right wing views as being equally as bullshit as left wing views.

Right wing: fundamentalist Christian cultism, pseudo-economic claims about tax cuts for the rich benefitting the poor, opposing abortion and then leaving the resulting children to rot due to lack of welfare, increasing reliance on conspiracy theories to defame opponents rather than offering comprehensible policies...

Left wing: divisive identity politics, more interested in 'transgender bathroom rights' than genuine issues affecting average people, opposition to law enforcement, looting, cancel culture, intolerance for alternative viewpoints, entitlement to unlimited handouts without a source of funding...

If people were able to control their emotions, genuinely want positive outcomes for all, function independently to the angry/stupid mobs on both sides and engage in nuanced thinking, the result would be something workable. That would be what I would call 'high consciousness' politics.

[Nyseto]

3 minutes ago, No Self said:

I can't do that, but I can put my hand up for acknowledging right wing views as being equally as bullshit as left wing views.

Right wing: fundamentalist Christian cultism, pseudo-economic claims about tax cuts for the rich benefitting the poor, opposing abortion and then leaving the resulting children to rot due to lack of welfare, increasing reliance on conspiracy theories to defame opponents rather than offering comprehensible policies...

Left wing: divisive identity politics, more interested in 'transgender bathroom rights' than genuine issues affecting average people, opposition to law enforcement, looting, cancel culture, intolerance for alternative viewpoints, entitlement to unlimited handouts without a source of funding...

If people were able to control their emotions, genuinely want positive outcomes for all, function independently to the angry/stupid mobs on both sides and engage in nuanced thinking, the result would be something workable. That would be what I would call 'high consciousness' politics.

Spot on! 

I've been into spirituality for a good while now and I don't like the fact that sometimes it gets labeled as leftist. I have very right wing friends and when they hear me talking, they mention that I've been sounding more liberal just because I talk about oneness and consciousness. It's like spirituality has a negative stigma because of the left.

[No Self]

13 minutes ago, Nyseto said:

It's like spirituality has a negative stigma because of the left.

You're probably in a good place if right-wing conformists accuse you of being leftist and left-wing conformists accuse you of being rightist. Hopefully more individuals will awaken out of the respective mobs in the coming years so energy can go towards making a sane world, rather than attacking our own neighbours.

Regarding your other question, the likes of Eckhart and Rupert have to my knowledge never identified as leftist. However, Eckhart has frequently dismissed society as a product of the madness of the ego, citing examples such as genocide, environmental destruction, nuclear proliferation and so on. No doubt from this perspective, much of today's politics can be dismissed as noisy mobs of unconscious people functioning in ape mode. He once quoted Shakespeare, "It is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,. Signifying nothing."

And my favourite political commentator is actually Bill Maher, despite (or because of) his background as an atheist. He strives to improve both sides by pointing out their respective insanity.

[Girzo]

2 hours ago, Nyseto said:

Well private Healthcare is better quality whereas Universal works on a "wait in line" basis. Anytime something is offered for free, it eliminates variety and decreases quality. 

You talk as if there was any variety. The healthcare in the US is constantly getting centralized with every year into the hands of a few corporations. There is no real choice. Those few oligopolists or even monopolists in some niches make it worse for every party involved, the patients, workers they hire, and the government. The whole system is very ineffective.

It's well-known that the American system costs more for the same results, compared for example to Canada or any European country really.

Even Obama had admitted that the only reason Obamacare and his other health reforms had not been more radical is that he didn't know what to do with a few million workers who would lose their jobs if such reform was introduced. They would lose jobs because they are not needed in a properly working system. A few million workers who are not needed, but are employed in the private health industry right now to help leech value out of your pocket, working their bullshit bureaucratic jobs that drain their souls.

[Talinn]

1 hour ago, Nyseto said:

However I don't think America could ever be communist for the simple reason that it has been vastly capitalist prior unlike China and Russia. It would snap back like a rubber band so hard to the likes of which were never seen. 

I agree, however your first post seems to imply that we ought to criticize communism more. Communism is already criticized heavily in today's society, and there is virtually no risk of it being implemented on a mass scale due to the backlash you mentioned. So what more do you want? Even if we talk about socialism, the current democrats in Congress are not even really advocating for that yet, on a really large scale. 

1 hour ago, Nyseto said:

I think it's due to pessimism coming from the right when they see examples in other countries. They see it as "Well if you take my finger today, tomorrow you'll take my hand and then my arm." Many right wingers say that you have to vote for socialism, but shoot your way out for example. They see it as giving up a freedom such as owning certain guns in exchange for security as a big mistake. 

Call the pessimism for what it is -- fear. 

Let's say we have two potential problems: the threat of massive [gun] violence, and climate change. (We do have these two threats, as it happens). 

Your average right winger is much less likely to resort to any other option other than radicalizing further, and buying more "guns" to "protect his family." He is more likely to double down on the fact that he needs more guns, more ammo, and more angry FB posts to defend himself. 

The average left winger will probably still eat meat, still drive a car wherever he wants, the difference is that there's more of a chance he feels guilty and stops eating meat. There's more of a chance he does more things to address climate change.

You can look at a gun to say it's just a useful tool to defend yourself, but that's not how many people see it. What I mean is that it goes further than that. They are married to their gun. At least the leftist will reconsider his approach to life more often than the right winger, who will 9/10 out of times just look at getting better guns or better locks. 

1 hour ago, Nyseto said:

more interested in 'transgender bathroom rights'

Believe it or not, there's people out there that are legitimately concerned about where they can go to the bathroom. These people don't simply view it as a "Twitter discussion topic" but something that impacts their day-to-day existence and mental health. I would not underemphasize minorities' rights, neither would I say that it's something the average person should devote hours every day to uphold. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Talinn