Is there one objective reality ?

[satyajit]

So, 

5 Meo DMT gives the insight to an individual that he/she is 'god' and he/she is 'reality'. In other words, he/she is the one who is creating his own reality. Everything he experiences is an illusion created by himself/herself and he is the creator of his/her own realm. 

Question: The subjects he/she is creating and experiencing seem to be experiencing their own illusion. So, is this world of illusion subjective and each conscious agent is having a separate illusion. Or is the illusion singular and all the conscious agents are plugged into the same illusory world.

This question has been haunting me. Any insight will be helpful.

BTW: I haven't experienced 5 Meo DMT.

Thanks in advance. 

 

[Mu_]

What is illusion by your own definition, and what is real?  Thats a good place to start before I could answer you further.

[Moksha]

At the ultimate level, reality includes everything. The "dream world" is part of reality. Even a dream exists, in its own realm. Reality is everything that exists, and everything that does not exist. It is the unmanifested, and the manifested. It is the formless, and the formed. Think of it more in terms of states of reality, encompassed into a whole, rather than trying to separate the real from the unreal. Any separation like that is dualistic, and thus cannot capture ultimate reality.

[satyajit]

4 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

What is illusion by your own definition, and what is real?  Thats a good place to start before I could answer you further.

FROM what I've gathered so far, objective reality is something like a low-level programming language, incomprehensible to the mind (mind-boggling). The mind interprets reality in a way that assists survival. Which is most probably an entirely false perception. This is the illusory world. 

[Gesundheit]

I don't know.

[satyajit]

5 minutes ago, Moksha said:

At the ultimate level, reality includes everything. The "dream world" is part of reality. Even a dream exists, in its own realm. Reality is everything that exists, and everything that does not exist. It is the unmanifested, and the manifested. It is the formless, and the formed. Think of it more in terms of states of reality, encompassed into a whole, rather than trying to separate the real from the unreal. Any separation like that is dualistic, and thus cannot capture ultimate reality.

The mind is quite capable of producing a finely tuned illusory world (in dreams this is evident). Also, it's capable of producing disassociative disorders that can form illusions of separate identities. All can be part of a whole system.

Also, there can be a possibility of incomprehensible recursive and nested systems where all the reality-dreams are separate. 

So, is this reality singular and shared or individualistic?

[satyajit]

23 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

I don't know.

Neither do most of us.

Would certainly love to hear the perceptions. 

If this is a dream, is this a shared dream?

[Gesundheit]

@satyajit This problem can be easily solved with belief. And actually, it is being solved exclusively through that way while denying that belief is involved.

The answer to this question requires a leap of faith; precisely a belief in otherness. But Leo's approach to epistemology does not accept belief, or at least that's what he claims. You're not bound by that approach though. You can choose to believe others and you can choose not to. It's all up to you.

[satyajit]

2 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

@satyajit This problem can be easily solved with belief. And actually, it is being solved exclusively through that way while denying that belief is involved.

The answer to this question requires a leap of faith; precisely a belief in otherness. But Leo's approach to epistemology does not accept belief, or at least that's what he claims. You're not bound by that approach though. You can choose to believe others and you can choose not to. It's all up to you.

Yes, belief or faith is something that can solve many unsolvable problems very easily. I'm not questioning the effectiveness and the truthfulness of a belief system. That's another topic.

But it's very difficult to contemplate or do thought experiments like this based on that.

[Gesundheit]

@satyajit The point is that you cannot possibly get an answer to your question without believing others. From your pov, you can only experience your pov. Everything you hear from others is their povs. You cannot directly experience my pov. But you can believe that I directly experience it. With this belief in mind, there is an objective reality that we all share. Otherwise, if you choose not to believe that my pov is as real as yours, you will end up with solipsism/subjective reality. Either way, you're using beliefs. But at least, with the former, it's acknowledged.

[satyajit]

@Gesundheit Of course I have to believe in others as I'm lacking the first-hand experience. I was hoping that there is some consensus amongst the advanced researchers regarding this so that it makes more sense in believing.

[Mu_]

1 hour ago, satyajit said:

The mind is quite capable of producing a finely tuned illusory world (in dreams this is evident). Also, it's capable of producing disassociative disorders that can form illusions of separate identities. All can be part of a whole system.

Also, there can be a possibility of incomprehensible recursive and nested systems where all the reality-dreams are separate. 

So, is this reality singular and shared or individualistic?

To your second point, what or where would all these incomprehensible recursive/nested systems be within or contained within?  And if they are not contained within anything, then how would they be separate?  And if they are contained within, how again would they be separate?

[Mu_]

8 minutes ago, satyajit said:

@Gesundheit Of course I have to believe in others as I'm lacking the first-hand experience. I was hoping that there is some consensus amongst the advanced researchers regarding this so that it makes more sense in believing.

Why assume you would have to believe in others?  Did you have to believe in experience before it occurred?  Perhaps experience is giving rise to the "you" that thinks it believes its doing such actions and not the other way around.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, satyajit said:

I haven't experienced 5 Meo DMT.

Experience it, then let's talk

[satyajit]

@Leo Gura I wish I could get it somehow. 

[Leo Gura]

@satyajit Other psychedelics can be equally profound and revealing.

[satyajit]

 @Leo Gura I have access to psilocybin mushrooms. So far that's been THE tool for my explorations.  But, explorations are resulting in more questions than answers.

[satyajit]

Sometimes I wonder if the human mind needs thousands of more years of evolution before it tries to deconstruct the objective truth. Right now the experience induced by DMT or other psychedelics contains way too much information that the human mind can comprehend. 

It seems that that is the target of evolution.

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, satyajit said:

The mind is quite capable of producing a finely tuned illusory world (in dreams this is evident). Also, it's capable of producing disassociative disorders that can form illusions of separate identities. All can be part of a whole system.

Also, there can be a possibility of incomprehensible recursive and nested systems where all the reality-dreams are separate. 

So, is this reality singular and shared or individualistic?

Are dreams real? They may not be what they pretend to be, but they are clearly something. Every something is real, according to the limits of its dimensionality.

Illusions are real. Thoughts are real. Feelings are real. Physicality is real. Existence, at any level, is real. So is nonexistence, which is nothing more than infinite latent potential.

Ultimate reality includes both unmanifested reality, and the infinite manifested diverse forms of reality. It is all reality.

Asking whether reality is singular and shared or individualistic is a strawman; the answer is both.

[Forestluv]

11 minutes ago, satyajit said:

 But, explorations are resulting in more questions than answers.

That is a feature of exploration. Explorers are generally comfortable with not knowing, uncertainty, ambiguity, multiple perspectives and paradox. 

The journey is the destination.