Ken Wilber — “an enlightened nazi”

[Eph75]

59 minutes ago, lmfao said:

If I have a problem, I have the specific problem in front of me. If I'm talking to a person, I have that specific person in front of me. Imagining them as a colour does nothing

SD isn't about seeing people in colors but the recognition of patterns and how to navigate them and problems that are spanning across the boundaries of different value systems. SD isn't prior to these behavioral systems, the systems are and you will come to recognize them without SD, through the growing of systems thinking, which too is covered and described by SD in tier 2 Yellow vMeme. SD is only a model/tool that describe a system and makes it easier to articulate such behavioral difference and how people move through the stages in a predictible way. Just like all models, it's incorrect, but helpful. It's also helpful for ones own development. Use the model or not, at one point in developmental growth you will end up seeing that which the model points to, and you will navigate people and circumstances relative to the value systems of those phenomena, becoming a spiral wizard, with of without SD in your knowledge bank. 

[Yali]

@Leo Gura

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Need I remind you guys that Ramaji and Ananda were/are Trump supporters? There's your enlightened Nazis of the 21st century

You previously listed Ramaji at Stage Turquoise???

Edited December 29, 2020 by Yali

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

@Leo Gura Do you think that Jews have not the right to their own state?

All rights are imaginary inventions of the ego. No one has a right to anything, ever.

I have no problem with Israel being a state. But the idea of a state only for one ethnicity or religion is absurd. That's called an ethnostate and is exactly what Hitler wanted. That results in evil.

For a state to be conscious, good, and sustainable it must treat all of its citizens equally well, regardless of their ethnicity or religion. Zionists are making exactly the same mistake Hitler made in running his state.

Israel should not be a Jewish state. It should just be a state for whoever likes to live there.

Imagine how absurd it would be if we founded a white Christian state within America that treated everyone else as second class citizens.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Yali said:

@Leo Gura

Ramaji is at Stage Blue?

No, Ramaji is at stage Boomer

[Yali]

@Leo Gura How can someone at Stage Turquoise be a Trump supporter????

Edited December 29, 2020 by Yali

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Yali said:

@Leo Gura How can someone at Stage Turquoise be a Trump supporter????

The mind's capacity to fool itself is limitless.

Boomers love Trump because he appeals to the worldview they were raised in and the media they consume.

[Yali]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The mind's capacity to fool itself is limitless.

Boomers love Trump because he appeals to the worldview they were raised in.

@Leo Gura

Stage TURQUOISE Boomers????

Edited December 29, 2020 by Yali

[Leo Gura]

Just to fuck with your mind's a bit more: David Hawkins sung the praises of Ben Shapiro and Shapiro's worldview while denouncing post-modernism.

David Hawkins was a very conscious guy, spiritually speaking. But politically he was a fool. Having good politics is a separate matter from spiritual development. Politics requires years of careful study. You will not get good politics just from spiritual practice.

And remember, most spiritual masters got their awakening through giftedness and super-natural talent. But you don't get good politics through talent or giftness. Good politics requires serious study and contemplation.

[lmfao]

@Eph75 True, it really is helpful to be able to navigate certain patterns you see in people and social atmospheres. 

I think it's just that 1) I've seen that I myself have used SD in a bad way and want to warn others, and 2) in my latter message what I was getting at is that SD should be integrated in such a way so as to be used without straining your logical mind. Integrated with everything else. Where its kept in the back of your mind as one ingredient of whatever your mind is churning. 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Yali said:

@Leo Gura

Stage TURQUOISE Boomers????

Firstly, there are plenty of Turquoise Boomers.

Secondly, just because a person is into mystical stuff does not make him Turquoise.

Your mind is looking for some simplistic formula to explain the complexity of human minds, and you just won't find that. Spiral Dynamics is just a loose rule of thumb. It has plenty of edge-cases and exceptions. A model is just a model. And Spiral Dynamics does not model high stages of consciousness or mysticism well at all.

[Vrubel]

@Leo Gura I found this:

"Einstein was a prominent supporter of both Labor Zionism and efforts to encourage Jewish-Arab cooperation. He supported the creation of a Jewish national homeland in the British mandate of Palestine but was opposed to the idea of a Jewish state "with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power."

He did support labor-Zionism which was the prominent stream at the time of Israel's inception. But he was against temporal power and having an army. I just think that if the jews didn't have an army they would be totally at the mercy of stage red/bue Arabs and therefore creating the possibility of a second genocide. 

[Yali]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Firstly, there are plenty of Turquoise Boomers.

Secondly, just because a person is into mystical stuff does not make him Turquoise.

@Leo Gura

I wouldn't expect anyone at Stage Turquoise to be a Trump supporter. So why is Ramaji a Trump supporter?

Edited December 29, 2020 by Yali

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

@Leo Gura I found this:

"Einstein was a prominent supporter of both Labor Zionism and efforts to encourage Jewish-Arab cooperation. He supported the creation of a Jewish national homeland in the British mandate of Palestine but was opposed to the idea of a Jewish state "with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power."

He did support labor-Zionism which was the prominent stream at the time of Israel's inception. But he was against temporal power and having an army. I just think that if the jews didn't have an army they would be totally at the mercy of stage red/bue Arabs and therefore creating the possibility of a second genocide. 

Einstein declined the Israeli presidency and spoke of the dangers of Zionism.

I could find quotes but I'm too lazy to look for them.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Yali said:

So why is Ramaji a Trump supporter?

How the fuck should I know? Go ask him how he justifies it in his Boomer mind.

You should start by asking him what new sources he consumes. That will be a clue.

[Yali]

@Leo Gura

I guess what I'm asking is: shouldn't spiritual consciousness translate to political consciousness? I just don't get how someone at Stage Turquoise can be a Trump supporter. whatever.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Yali

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Yali said:

shouldn't spiritual consciousness translate to political consciousness?

It should, but it doesn't.

[Forestluv]

52 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because enlightenment does not guarantee an developed mind.

Developing the mind, and proper use of the mind, is a very separate thing from enlightenment.

You can be enlightened and still use your mind improperly. I've seen many enlightened people do that.

The trap here is that once you become enlightened you get the silly idea that now your mind doesn't matter and that you can use it flawlessly. Nope! You cannot escape the mind and its trickeries no matter how enlightened you get.

Would you say this is also true for body feelings and energy? I see a lot of ideas that enlightenment flicks a switch, the body is reborn and there is abiding peace and joy. Can there still be past traumas, repressed emotions and subconscious psychological barriers that may appear in an enlightened being and need to be worked through? Or does it all evaporate?

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Would you say this is also true for body feelings and energy? I see a lot of ideas that enlightenment flicks a switch, the body is reborn and there is abiding peace and joy. Can there still be past traumas, repressed emotions and subconscious psychological barriers that may appear in an enlightened being and need to be worked through?

Absolutely. I pretty much guarantee you will have all sorts of neurotic baggage remaining post-enlightenment.

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Or does it all evaporate?

And your farts will smell of jasmine and daffodils, just like the Buddha's.

[Vrubel]

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Israel should not be a Jewish state. It should just be a state for whoever likes to live there.

@Leo Gura Well Israel was founded by dirt-poor pioneers and refugees and now it's a prosperous and technologically advanced state where a lot of people would wish to live if it had open borders. I get what you are saying but keep in mind that most Israelis come from places like Iraq, Yemen, Russia, Poland and Morocco. Israel will envolve when it's ready. I do not live in Israel but I was actually born there in a town where Arabs and Jews live together and enjoy the same rights (healthcare, voting, payment etc.). I won't deny any inequalities nor the need for a Palestinian state. At the same time, security for Israel is paramount.

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Vrubel

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

@Leo Gura Well Israel was founded by dirt-poor pioneers and refugees and now it's a prosperous and technologically advanced state where a lot of people would wish to live if it had open borders. I get what you are saying but keep in mind that most Israelis come from places like Iraq, Yemen, Russia, Poland and Morocco. Israel will envolve when it's ready. I do not live in Israel but I was actually born there in a town where Arabs and Jews live together and enjoy the same rights (healthcare, voting, payment etc.). I won't deny any inequalities nor the need for a Palestinian state.
 

 

 

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Arabs and Jews live together and enjoy the same rights (healthcare, voting, payment etc.).

Surely you are joking.