Ken Wilber’s 10% rule

[How to be wise]

In ‘The Religion of Tomorrow’, Ken Wilber states that if 10% of a society reaches the next stage of ‘growing up’ (spiral dynamics), then that stage will be permeated throughout the entire society, meaning that the society will effectively be run by that stage, despite most of the citizens being at the lower stage. What do you think about this statement?

[Yog]

Hm. I've heard this from few channeled materials too.

[How to be wise]

@Yog He sights ‘The Enlightenment’ as an example. When 10% of Europeans moved to stage Orange, the entire culture started to become dominated by Orange even though 90% were still at Blue.

[Leo Gura]

Of course culture has been controlled by elites and intellectuals in many ways for a long tine. But as democracy increases this will become less true. Stupidity will be more represented, as we have been seeing in the last 5 years.

The days when elites fed you ideology from the top is starting to give way to grass roots ideology from the bottom up.

And there is backlash. 10% is really flimsy. The other 90% will be unconscious and rebel and demonize those 10% even if the 10% are good and true.

Also we are very far from 10% wise Tier 2 people. I think all the Spiral percentages are over-inflated.

Less than 1% is Yellow, realistically speaking.

[ArchangelG]

5 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@Yog He sights ‘The Enlightenment’ as an example. When 10% of Europeans moved to stage Orange, the entire culture started to become dominated by Orange even though 90% were still at Blue.

I dont know if orange dominated but it definitely permeated the western world with oranges values. Abolishment of slavery, freedom of religion, individual thought and so on.

According to Kens estimate the west will reach that 10% yellow tipping point in 10-15 years. The paradigm shift from the industrial age to the the informational/digital age will probably get messy. 

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Less than 1% is Yellow, realistically speaking.

Most estimates that I've seen is 5-10 percent yellow

[How to be wise]

29 minutes ago, ArchangelG said:

According to Kens estimate the west will reach that 10% yellow tipping point in 10-15 years.

Nonsense. He said that in 2015! That means we have 5-10 years left. Still can’t see a sign of yellow anywhere.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, ArchangelG said:

Most estimates that I've seen is 5-10 percent yellow

I'm calling bullshit those estimates.

I see no valid science behind them. Someone is pulling those numbers out of their ass, or however they do their surveys is highly biased.

Show 10 Yellow political commentators for every 100 Blue/Orange/Green ones. You will be hard-pressed to find 1. You certainly will not find 5 or 10.

[Hello from Russia]

Well, we definietely have 10% or so GREEN now. Does it make your grandparents any less rigid?

[Tim R]

1 hour ago, ArchangelG said:

The paradigm shift from the industrial age to the the informational/digital age will probably get messy. 

It will and it already is. The internet is way to vast and powerful for us humans and if a person doesn't know how to think straight, the internet and media are prone to do more intellectual  harm than good ime. However the internet is the only thing that will get us to yellow. The internet is the most yellow thing you could ever come up with. 

Relativism is on the rise and it's gonna shake our culture right to the core. Not sure how we're gonna deal with tho. 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

Well, we definietely have 10% or so GREEN now. Does it make your grandparents any less rigid?

It actually makes them more rigid, since they are steeling themselves against a communist takeover.

This is modern conservatives in a nutshell.

It's very problematic when you have 10% of the population who is very high in development but 90% which is still stuck in Blue/Orange. It creates a civil war -like situation because the value sets are so different and the ones in power tend to usually be from the upper 10%.

Dumb and selfish people are not content to be governed by wise and selfless people. Dumb people expect the freedom to act out their stupidity.

[Hardkill]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course culture has been controlled by elites and intellectuals in many ways for a long tine. But as democracy increases this will become less true. Stupidity will be more represented, as we have been seeing in the last 5 years.

The days when elites fed you ideology from the top is starting to give way to grass roots ideology from the bottom up.

And there is backlash. 10% is really flimsy. The other 90% will be unconscious and rebel and demonize those 10% even if the 10% are good and true.

Also we are very far from 10% wise Tier 2 people. I think all the Spiral percentages are over-inflated.

Less than 1% is Yellow, realistically speaking.

So, you think that even western societies are becoming increasingly more for populist ideologies?

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

So, you think that even western societies are becoming increasingly more for populist ideologies?

Democracy is increasing -- this is a general long-term global trend. This becomes a problem if consciousness and education does not keep pace. It's analogous to the problem of when technology increases but consciousness does not. Democracy redistributes power into the hands of the many, but if the many are ignorant, this leads to disaster. Which is why democracy did not exist for most of human history.

What people don't understand is that democracy did not exist because it couldn't exist -- because people were too dumb to govern themselves. You cannot have democracy in Syria because the people are too ignorant to handle it. They need a brutal dictator to keep them in line through raw force because a dumb person doesn't understand things other than raw force.

To have nice things requires first curing your ignorance. Which requires a robust education system.

[Consept]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm calling bullshit those estimates.

I see no valid science behind them. Someone is pulling those numbers out of their ass, or however they do their surveys is highly biased.

Show 10 Yellow political commentators for every 100 Blue/Orange/Green ones. You will be hard-pressed to find 1. You certainly will not find 5 or 10.

Id say theres more hope than this purely based on the fact that a lot more young people voting for Sanders, he got the 18-44 vote comprehensively both times he ran. Also in the UK Sanders equivalent Jeremy Corbyn won the under 40 vote by 61.5% compared to conservatives 23% in the 2017 election, not only that the lower the age the higher the margin for Corbyn who had policies like if you sell your business the workers get first option on it and are subsidised by the government to buy it and start a co-op, hes a hardcore socialist basically that scared not only the status quo conservatives but his own labour party who many rebelled against him.  

So although many young voters are not necessarily yellow, they would definitely be open to having a yellow leader with more socialist leaning policies. My prediction would be as the boomer generation start dying out the younger generation will be more evolved and pass that on to their kids and society as a whole this will be how things change. Realistically i think in 15-20 years time youll see more green values and above be the mainstream   

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-2017-labour-youth-vote-under-40s-jeremy-corbyn-yougov-poll-a7789151.html

Edited December 29, 2020 by Consept

[Tim R]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Democracy redistributes power into the hands of the many, but if the many are ignorant, this leads to disaster.

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

To have nice things requires first curing your ignorance. Which requires a robust education system.

But the few who rule by virtue of the ignorance of the masses don't want to set up a robust education system, do they? Since the masses are ignorant they will elect an ignorant leader, who in turn won't set up a good education system - isn't this a vicious circle?

Btw is there any possibility to avoid a collective ego backlash? Or can it only be reduced in severity?

[ArchangelG]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm calling bullshit those estimates.

I see no valid science behind them. Someone is pulling those numbers out of their ass, or however they do their surveys is highly biased.

Show 10 Yellow political commentators for every 100 Blue/Orange/Green ones. You will be hard-pressed to find 1. You certainly will not find 5 or 10.

Why would the percentage of political commentators matter. Yellow is the first stage on integral, so they integrate politics, science and religion. You might find yellow people who comments on politics but not a  straight up yellow political commentator. 

Alexander Bard and Andrew Sweeny are great yellow thinkers who talk a lot about the transition from industrial to informational/digital. Highly recommend

Edited December 29, 2020 by ArchangelG

[ArchangelG]

1 hour ago, Tim R said:

It will and it already is. The internet is way to vast and powerful for us humans and if a person doesn't know how to think straight, the internet and media are prone to do more intellectual  harm than good ime. However the internet is the only thing that will get us to yellow. The internet is the most yellow thing you could ever come up with.

Agreed. 

[North Sea]

@Leo Gura Syria is actually quite a bad example. The Syrian people are very intelligent and conscious compared to other Arabian countries. There are many highly educated people there and people of different religions could live there how they wanted. In 2011 they wanted Assad to fuck off in favor of a more conscious leader. I have Syrian friend who was born in europe but then moved to Syria at 2 years old and moved back at 12. He tells me basically everybody hates Assad and IS in Syria and that most people there want more conscious leadership.

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, ArchangelG said:

Why would the percentage of political commentators matter. Yellow is the first stage on integral, so they integrate politics, science and religion. You might find yellow people who comments on politics but not a  straight up yellow political commentator.

It matters because these commentators influence culture and they are a sign of the development level of the culture. And if your political culture isn't Yellow then your society isn't Yellow and your Yellow doesn't really matter.

And politics is very influential on how your society does things. So if your politics isn't Yellow then your society is not behaving in a Yellow manner.

Right now in America we have a 3-way Mexican standoff between Blue, Orange, and Green, while Yellow hasn't even entered the chat.

[ArchangelG]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Right now in America we have a 3-way Mexican standoff between Blue, Orange, and Green, while Yellow hasn't even entered the chat.

Nor will yellow enter "the chat". Integral politics will probably take place in totally new platforms, cause remember that there is RADICAL shift from green to yellow, or tier 1 to tier 2. 

[ArchangelG]

6 hours ago, North Sea said:

@Leo Gura Syria is actually quite a bad example. The Syrian people are very intelligent and conscious compared to other Arabian countries. There are many highly educated people there and people of different religions could live there how they wanted. In 2011 they wanted Assad to fuck off in favor of a more conscious leader. I have Syrian friend who was born in europe but then moved to Syria at 2 years old and moved back at 12. He tells me basically everybody hates Assad and IS in Syria and that most people there want more conscious leadership.

Also Saudi Arabia is growing up to Orange. 

Great video that illustrates this: