Leo what do you think about Rupert's take on Psychedelics?

[James123]

10 minutes ago, toocrazytobecrazy said:

so you are saying nothing wrote this?

you are replying to no one?

but still you want to change something which is lack of awakening?

nah.

i think you are right.

as you claimed you want to change nothing.

because you are still too scared to leave your gurus behind.

 

 

 

 

This question has been answered multiple times. Nothing  to negate for ‘me’. But for you something is still happening.  I already know what i am, but you are me too. So just trying to help you. Just read the sentences carefully without any personal opinion. Awakening is not being selfish, it is been selfless. Being no one, therefore everyone. You need awakening, instead of judging, just learn. My guru? Guru is just a thought  ? mind loves to conceptualized?

Peace!

Edited December 28, 2020 by James123

[James123]

7 hours ago, dflores321 said:

Oh and sorry to double post,

But Osho mentioned something similar to what Leo said.

According to Osho, 

People get to No-Mind consciousness and this level of consciousness is already so peaceful and beautiful that almost all spiritual aspirants stop at this stage thinking they've gone far enough. 

Then the next stages are super consciousness and then Cosmic consciousness, which involve more and more oneness with existence itself. 

Unfortunately no. Where do you learn that stuff? Listen the osho carefully. 
 

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by James123

[James123]

@dflores321 At last stage he talks about Samadhi, which is nothingness brother. Same thing. ? as the video i shared for you. Thats why he says that he has living for 30 years as nothing. 

Peace!

[Raptorsin7]

Poor take by Rupert. He clearly has no understanding of psychedelic's, and dismisses them so casually as a tool to pursue enlightenment. 

He talks about how psychidelics can be used to thin the cloud of thoughts and feelings that prevent people from recognizing the nature of their being, and sais they can work well for that. That is literally what 99.99999% of his viewers are struggling with lol. He doesn't even take the time to consider and understand a tool that addresses the root of what every spiritual seeker deals with.

Rupert is awesome, but he's human and his take on psychidelics sucks.  

Edited December 28, 2020 by Raptorsin7

[Brandon Nankivell]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@SQAAD His own sun analogy fails him as it's obvious there are degrees of sunlight.

Don't take psychedelic advice from people who have not done lots of psychedelics.

There are certainly degrees of awareness and consciousness.

This confusion happens with spiritual teachers because they mistake pure empty consciousness with states of higher holistic God-consciousness. These are different things. If your only focus is pure empty consciousness, then yes, that has no degrees or qualities to it. But that's a bias and it's not the highest form of consciousness, it's the lowest.

In a sense, you can strive for the lowest possible level or the highest. Zen and Advaita strive for the lowest. Which is fine, but it's only half the game. Just because you've reached the lowest level: zero, does not mean you've reached the highest levels of Infinite Consciousness.

What people like Spira are guiding you towards is the lowest level. And what I'm guiding you to is the highest. Hence there is a disparity and confusion. The problem is that this distinction is not made clear to students and teachers love to dismiss the higher levels because they love to reduce everything to the lowest. It's a form of spiritual reductionism. People like Ralston fall into this trap.

When your only method is something like self-inquiry or meditation, you end up reducing everything down to pure emptiness. Which is not the same thing as Infinite Consciousness or God-consciousness. The problem is that self-inquiry is not enough to get you to Infinite Consciousness. It gets you to emptiness, which is nice, but not the end-all.

And psychedelics can get you to emptiness too. So his characterization of psychedelics are merely expanding the range of experience is simply false. Psychedelics will do both. They will expand range but also make you conscious of emptiness and the groundless ground.

This. End of discussion.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Brandon Nankivell

[Corpus]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Modern psychedelics like 5-MeO-DMT and DMT are new.

 

I think Rupert is right; if the obstruction "in the way" of consciousness is the self, loosening the bolts which hold this self together via psychedelics just provides a different type of obscuration. This cannot bring  "you" "nearer" to something which is not located in time or space. Even with 5 Meo, which is a useful experience, there is still content present of at least a visual nature which includes something as blank as a whiteout- even if "no-one" is perceiving it.. Psychedelics' utility is their effect on the self which shows it to be an activity rather than something more solid/objective, and provides a newer vantage-point from which to approach the work. 

And to describe 5 Meo DMT, and even more so DMT as "new" is patent rubbish. Nick Sand was synthesising and vaporizing DMT back in the 60s, as did Roky Erickson, Grace Slick, Alan Watts, Tim Leary and many others, no doubt. And its oral use extends back millennia.

All teachers have something to offer but to slavishly assume any can "guide you all the way" is delusional. That is why one must do the work for oneself. But if one is to weigh up the utility of any teacher a useful yardstick, which is always going to be preliminary, is to judge them on their achievements. Do they talk, or do they walk as well? Some clearly have eg Ralston (IMO), others have fewer concrete demonstrations to display.

[SQAAD]

8 hours ago, Nahm said:

 

I think you know of something Rupert can never know. 

@Nahm   Spot on.

Edited December 28, 2020 by SQAAD

[James123]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are stuck on the nothingness side of the coin. You're missing the complete coin. So ironically you're stuck in duality.

There is no such a thing as duality, universe, infinite consciousness, time or space. There are Just a thought. As saying infinite consciousness, it is clear to see that you are stuck in duality. Because it is something that you have learned. But you can never learn nothing, because you are already. Which never comes from knowledge or learning. Truth can never be told, can just be. You can Read the below. 

7 hours ago, dflores321 said:

So by nothingness you imply infinity? 

There is no such a thing as infinity, time or space. They are Just thought. You can read the below. 

Nirvichara Samadhi

For the first time, true one-pointed concentration becomes possible. Even subtle thoughts do not occur. The perceptual limitations of time and space are transcended; this state is called Nirvichara Samadhi.

Kaivalya Samadhi

The final stage is to reach Kaivalya Samadhi: complete, final, and eternal union with the real, eternal form.

Which is nothingness. Osho is talking about final stage as this. Thats why he is saying that he has been nothing for 30 years.

https://vedicfeed.com/stages-of-samadhi/

Peace!

Edited December 28, 2020 by James123

[Globalcollective]

Btw there is a small chance he might be lying. His wife did dmt with one of my friends quite a few times. He once asked Rupert and he said he would come at some point to try but I don't think he ever did. This was like 4 years ago, he is more aware of this stuff then he is letting on just might be trying to keep face. 

Edit: I live near Rupert so I use to see him all the time but due to covid he has stopped touring but next time I see him Im going to see if he's up for shoving some 5meo up the pipe hole 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Globalcollective

[allislove]

1 hour ago, Globalcollective said:

Btw there is a small chance he might be lying. His wife did dmt with one of my friends quite a few times. He once asked Rupert and he said he would come at some point to try but I don't think he ever did. This was like 4 years ago, he is more aware of this stuff then he is letting on just might be trying to keep face.

Might be, he is too supportive of psychedelics for a person who hasn't tried them  


I love Rupert pointers, his yoga meditations are amazing:

 

[Nahm]

5 hours ago, SQAAD said:

@Nahm   Spot on.

???

 

[Tim R]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

When your only method is something like self-inquiry or meditation, you end up reducing everything down to pure emptiness. Which is not the same thing as Infinite Consciousness or God-consciousness.

@Leo Gura How can emptiness and infinite/god consciousness not be identical?

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, James123 said:

There is no such a thing as duality, universe, infinite consciousness, time or space. There are Just a thought.

And who is thinking those thoughts?

[mandyjw]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, you can do it.

I explain how in my video: How Openmindedness Works, and my other openmindedness videos. I've covered this topic a lot.

Your past videos made me conscious of how important open-mindedness is. Since I've realized that the reason open-mindedness is so key is that open-mindedness is none other than unconditional Love which is none other than the nature of Awareness itself. You could call it Empty or you could call it Unconditional Love. I don't have an individual, separate mind. In my direct experience I am aware of thoughts but mind, or minds are abstract concepts that I'm aware of... as thoughts. 

Rupert Spira talks about how consciousness is like a camera lens zooming out, so in dream or psychedelic states you may directly experience the subconscious which is much more shared, one and collective than a normal state of consciousness. You can experience archetypes, (including aliens, angels, gods, saints, etc) entities, collective thoughts, collective consciousness, a feeling of oneness, all sorts of phenomena. But these are still experiences, with an experiencer. You adjust the camera lens that was focused in on something small and specific slightly and it completely changes your world and opens your eyes and heart as to what is possible and what you might be. But to move beyond self or ego, you can only become aware of what's false.

In Awareness there are no distinctions such as levels. How can there be? "I'm big and you're small, you must be subject to me." Arrogance and inadequacy feel awful to anyone who buys into the story of them. Must we drag this worldview into spirituality, into the idea of transcendence itself? . Transcendence both is and is not a higher level. It's not a particular perspective, it's the loss of a person behind the perspective. Hierarchy of states of consciousness is not Love, this is separation and identification. 

Sure it seems like there are levels to light, but what is light really? Is it a wave or a particle? Depends on who's looking at it. You're stuck with the problem of the observer. You're awareness itself. 

 

[James123]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

And who is thinking those thoughts?

“Thinker” is a thought itself . Your entire identity and life is just a process of thoughts. 

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, James123 said:

35 minutes ago, James123 said:

“Thinker” is a thought itself . Your entire identity and life is just a process of thoughts. 

 

Call them "thoughts" or dream, or real, it's the same. They are. They come from the nothingness, so the nothingness create them. They are nothing but they are. So? Something is lost here. a piece is missing in your puzzle

[James123]

23 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Call them "thoughts" or dream, or real, it's the same. They are. They come from the nothingness, so the nothingness create them. They are nothing but they are. So? Something is lost here. a piece is missing in your puzzle

There is no coming or going, or creating. Your Missing point is , You still naming and labeling the thoughts. Nothing has ever happened. So called thought process makes it. If you dont name and label the thoughts (even saying thought as “thought “ naming and labeling again), you are before so called birth.

Edited December 28, 2020 by James123

[Forestluv]

At a practical level, this video illustrates why it can be important to integrate psychedelic realizations with someone who has integrated psychedelic experiences. I appreciate Rupert’s insights into many facets of consciousness, yet I cringed as Rupert tried to contextualize as “This is what psychedelics are, what they can do and what they cannot do”. He is correct within his contextualization, yet is unaware he is contextualizing that which he is unaware of. Ironically, the question was about infinity. . . 

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, Corpus said:

This cannot bring  "you" "nearer" to something which is not located in time or space.

Except it can. That's the whole point.

9 hours ago, Corpus said:

Even with 5 Meo, which is a useful experience, there is still content present of at least a visual nature which includes something as blank as a whiteout- even if "no-one" is perceiving it..

It does not matter that content is present.

Enlightened people have content in their experience all the time. Content does not hinder enlightenment. It would be silly of it did.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Tim R said:

@Leo Gura How can emptiness and infinite/god consciousness not be identical?

They are and they aren't.