Dating with Culture Codes!

[Tim Stretton]

I have had this lifelong thing about “fighting for self”.  See the links that I have posted on this post. 

Can anyone tell me why “dating etiquette” anywhere is sooooooo important, and how it is, I am told, different from who we are and what our values truly are? 

Why is it that doing something in a country just because everyone else does it is beneficial and why do I feel that having my own values and “etiquette” (if one will though I don’t really see them as etiquettes) are regarded by culture as “unacceptable” if my own values are different to the culture that I was born into? 

Why do I feel that I have to behave in this cultural environment in a way that is different to who I truly am and how I actually and naturally self-emanate from my own authentic heart?

Why do I feel that I have to behave as a “gentleman” within the rules of culture instead of my own natural interpretation of the term “gentleman” in 2020 and beyond?

How can I behave naturally with my true values of money, domestic chores (I do everything by the way), working, dating, marriage, bringing kids up, etc., and being the authentic “Danny Zucko” with confidence, instead of having to behave like a “T-bird Danny Zucko” where, as Leo puts it in his video, A Rant Against Culture, “it puts us in pigeon holes and straightjackets”? 

In the YouTube video, LOVE EXPERT REVEALS Why 80% Of Relationships DON’T LAST | Esther Perel & Lewis Howes, at 10:15, Esther Perel states:

“For a very simple reason.
For a long time, we live — and we still in many parts of the world — live in traditional societies where relationships are clearly codified.  There are clear rules, there are roles, there are obligations, there’s a tight structure from which you can’t get out, but it tells you clearly who you are, where you belong, where you’re rooted, and what’s expected of you.  And you don’t have too many questions about whose career matters more, and who’s going to wake up to feed the baby, and who has a right to demand for sex.  And everybody, every husband knows exactly what they can ask from their wife, and the wife knows exactly what she should not tell her husband, and children know their place, and adults can all interact.  All of this was super regulated.
You know that exactly on Sunday, you go and visit your family, and that you’ve got to call your Grandma, and that nobody... And you go to church, and you go to any other religious institution where you go, to pray, to be with the community, et cetera.  And you know what?  Nobody needed to explain to you why it is important.  You just went because I said so.  And that’s because that’s what you do.  That’s what we do.  And that’s what we don’t do, because what will the neighbours say?  And there is a community that looks over you all the time, and the streets are narrow like that, and everybody knows what’s going on in the neighbour’s house.”

If someone out there — male and/or female — can “sell” me “dating etiquette” and tell me why it is best that I can/should “sign on the dotted line” with what the dating and relationship culture says that I heartily can do (sorry deliberate correction) should do for women on dates and later on relationships and why the etiquette really is the best thing since sliced wholemeal bread, I would gladly hear of it. 

Many thanks. 

10 Countries Around the World and their unwritten Dating Habits

LOVE EXPERT REVEALS Why 80% Of Relationships DON'T LAST | Esther Perel & Lewis Howes — from 10:15

Grease (1978) - Phony Danny Scene

A Rant Against Culture

[Preety_India]

So what are your values exactly? 

You're being a bit vague by simply throwing in words like etiquette, culture, society, values, environment, etc. 

But you never said what exactly are these things that you find objection with? Like specific examples. 

Also how would you lay out your own plan or value system about it all? 

Because we're not just individuals but also members of a society. So social needs also have to be factored in. 

Relationship is a two way street. If you think a certain way doesn't accommodate your needs then maybe it could be that your way doesn't accommodate their needs? 

 

[Tim Stretton]

@Preety_India,

My values are gender egalitarian.  I don’t believe in expecting women to cook or men to empty the bin/trash though there is nothing wrong with that if he and/or she chooses to.  I much prefer to discover what my talents are rather than to have my talents told as to what they should be.  I prefer individualist values rather than societal ones because I believe it gets in the way with who we truly are as individuals.  I am happy to listen to a woman in my life as what she needs in a relationship and to do my best to meet that.  And I will heartily share with her just the same.  If we are compatible, great; if we are not compatible, okay politely move on.

I object to being told who I should be as a man.  For example, I don’t mind taking a woman out on a date and paying for her per se if I choose to do that, but when I feel that I have to, and I am told in essence that I am not good enough for a woman until I do so culturally, and it’s over already because I didn’t “toe the line” of culture, then I lose my sense of confidence and self-control.

You say, “Because we're not just individuals but also members of a society. So social needs also have to be factored in. ”  Why do you think that that is important, and why would I choose it?  What are the benefits to society, to her (whoever she might be in my future), and to me?  How do you think that society-wide values contribute to where we feel safe in our hearts?  What am I personally signing up to?  Do I have wriggle room with how I behave in a good way to women on dates and in relationships?

Edited December 27, 2020 by Tim Stretton
Using the “@ User” properly.

[PepperBlossoms]

I think the stuff will depend on the girl.  Some girls won't care at all about any of the cultural norms.  Others will.  You could talk with yo gurl and see where she stands on each one and where you stand so that you two got it cleared up of what is going to be expected/not happening.

If she wants to do all of the cultural stuff and you don't, get a cooler girl.. or adapt?!

It is not all about her either!  It's about you too!

I guess some cultures will have far less optimal norms than others.

[hyruga]

It depends on the maturity of the guy and girl.

You can have silly etiquette like laughing out loud in a restaurant. Most girls should be able to accept but some may think you lack social intelligence. 

But overall, I think dating etiquette will not be the main factor in crushing any relationships. There will be many other issues such as compatibility, culture, family and personal values.

 

[Tim Stretton]

@hyruga,

I agree with personal values, but those values of mine needn’t be a main stay, but can evolve and grow with time.

I suppose that I am looking for a woman with compatibility with us both, rather than to have ‘aggressive’ compatibility with any culture.

[Tim Stretton]

@PepperBlossoms ,

Yes I think that you are right.  If the kitchen bin/trash needs emptying, my daughter just wraps up the plastic bag and takes it outside to the outside bin/trash just as I do, whereas my mother (whom I love loads by the way) wouldn’t ever do that unless she is the only person in the house.

Hmm, find a cooler woman then!  It is about me too, and I can choose not be afraid to express that to the woman who wants to listen.  I think that she might be hard to find.

Thank you.  ?

[PepperBlossoms]

@Tim Stretton Good luck.  Could have a rocky road but eventually get two different value systems of what the relationship should look like to merge and work out over time (good enough at least).

My boyfriend did not get me anything for Valentine's Day and I had put a lot of effort in to make him something one year and I was super, super sad/mad.  He then took out a calendar and had us go through every month to say what days we had to do stuff for each other and what exactly we would be doing (such as how many presents and how big those presents were) so we knew what to expect and then had us sign the calendar as a "contract".  Pretty funny but it was an interesting idea.  I have kinda changed and quit caring so much about presents in comparison to how I used to since then.  I think we all kinda have our own list of needs that we want our partner to do and we kinda have to let them know what they are and they the same with us.