Is it truly wise and good to bring children into existence?

[Elshaddai]

This is something I've been thinking about for a very long time. 

Ever since I came across a philosophy known as antinatalism, which in a nutshell states that life is full of suffering and pain and it's better for people not to be in order to spare them life's suffering.

I have to admit i really sympathize with this attitude and doubt if i should have kids.

I mean what's the point of it all right?

Death is guaranteed anyways so why create new life at all if it just leads to nonexistence? Isn't it better to prevent this futile prossess called life and keep possible infants in a state of blissful nonexistence?

[caspex]

With that logic you can also say "You should kill yourself right now since you are gonna die anyway".
Ultimately it doesn't matter. Bring children if you want, don't if you don't.

There's no reason for life. Life is for life's sake. So I mean, you don't need to think so much about it and then identify yourself with a label.

[Shunyata]

@Swarnim such an annoying know-it-all. 

[Tim R]

Well, but life isn't all suffering. There can be intense joy in life. 

Remember that moment when you were happy? Remember that feeling of "Man, even if my life would be mostly a nasty and unpleasant experience - it would be worth it to experience this one moment of joy and happiness"?

Now, I know that many people don't look at life this way. All they want is the pain to go away - but you see how this is actually also a way of saying "Yes!" to life? Because fundamentally want you want is a happy life, obviously. You don't want "no life at all", but a life that is worth living. People who are suicidal say that they don't want to live anymore, which is the actually the result of the desire for a happy life, but having lost all hope that they could ever live a happy life, and so they say that it would be better not to live altogether. Which is perfectly alright, imo. 

@Elshaddai You say "spare them life's suffering". Which is of course the same as saying "spare them life's happiness". 

34 minutes ago, Elshaddai said:

it's better for people not to be in order to spare them life's suffering

By not bringing anyone into existence, there's nobody to spare from life's suffering/joy. 

Also, you say "death is guaranteed", which is true. Therefore you must remember this: when you're dead, it's as though you have never lived. Let that sink in... It also means, that it's as though you have never suffered.

 

In the end there really is not right/wrong answer to this question, because it's completely up to you whether you think life is worth living despite the suffering or not. Both ways are acceptable. 

[Rigel]

1 hour ago, Elshaddai said:

Death is guaranteed anyways so why create new life at all if it just leads to nonexistence?

For the drama

I mean common look at your life! 100x more entertaining than any movie you've ever seen!

[Nahm]

@Elshaddai

Swap the philosophy for direct inspection of the suffering. 

It’s yours. 

No one else in the world knows it. 

It’s not yours. 

 

[Megan Alecia]

@Shunyata that applies to many people in general 

[meow_meow]

Well I have to admint that 99% of my suffering was due to the fact that my parents weren't really ready to have children - financially, emotionally & spiritually. And as a result the child suffers due to lack of money within the family, constant arguments, alcohol, abuse etc and that causes trauma that sinks into adult life.

5 hours ago, Elshaddai said:

that life is full of suffering and pain

Yes, this is true of course, but if you have the finances, intelligence and overall circumstances to raise children and if you want them, go ahead.
otherweise - please don't.

I'm myself close to 30 years old (I'm a dude) and I don't see how will I be able to afford children, even tho I'm working on building a carreer right now, I don't really think that I will have children during this lifetime.. and it's okay.
 

Edited December 24, 2020 by meow_meow

[aurum]

@Elshaddai

I would question your basic assumptions about life and suffering.

5 hours ago, Elshaddai said:

which in a nutshell states that life is full of suffering and pain and it's better for people not to be in order to spare them life's suffering.

This is a belief. Challenge it.

[The_Alchemist]

God has created infinite souls squared, whether or not you choose to be a direct part of that makes no diff.

As others have said, you can't chart your kids life for good or bad, your child could be a mass murderer or the greatest person in the world.

At the end of the day only thing you control is:
Your mind/body and soul
The example you set with them
The love you provide the child

Everything else is out of your control, but generally, I've not seen people who are 3/3 and have some horrendous kids.

Up to you.

[Blackhawk]

8 hours ago, Elshaddai said:

This is something I've been thinking about for a very long time. 

Ever since I came across a philosophy known as antinatalism, which in a nutshell states that life is full of suffering and pain and it's better for people not to be in order to spare them life's suffering.

I have to admit i really sympathize with this attitude and doubt if i should have kids.

I mean what's the point of it all right?

Death is guaranteed anyways so why create new life at all if it just leads to nonexistence? Isn't it better to prevent this futile prossess called life and keep possible infants in a state of blissful nonexistence?

I think it's better to not bring more living beings to existence.

7 hours ago, Swarnim said:

With that logic you can also say "You should kill yourself right now since you are gonna die anyway".

Yes, logically, people should, but maybe not all people. That's my personal little opinion. Feel free to disagree. I hope I'm allowed to say this opinion. It's very politically incorrect to say it but.. it is what it is.. sorry. There are probably a few people who have a pleasant life which is worth living.

The problem is that we are equipped with a integrated strong survival instinct. Which wins over pretty much anything, rationality, etc. So because of that you can get trapped in life, even if you don't want to live. It's like a prison.

--------------------

"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the rest — whether or not the world has three dimensions, whether the mind has nine or twelve categories — comes afterwards. These are games; one must first answer."

- Albert Camus

--------------------

"If I were to be totally sincere, I would say that I do not know why I live and why I do not stop living. The answer probably lies in the irrational character of life which maintains itself without reason."

"Nothing is better proof of how far humanity has regressed than the impossibility of finding a single nation, a single tribe, among whom birth still provokes mourning and lamentations."

"I long to be free—desperately free. Free as the stillborn are free."

"Without the faculty of forgetting, our past would weigh so heavily on our present that we should not have the strength to confront another moment, still less to live through it. Life would be bearable only to frivolous natures, those in fact who do not remember."

"Better to be an animal than a man, an insect than an animal, a plant than an insect, and so on."

"Salvation? Whatever diminishes the kingdom of consciousness and compromises its supremacy."

- Emil M. Cioran

7 hours ago, Tim R said:

Well, but life isn't all suffering. There can be intense joy in life. 

Remember that moment when you were happy? Remember that feeling of "Man, even if my life would be mostly a nasty and unpleasant experience - it would be worth it to experience this one moment of joy and happiness"?

Now, I know that many people don't look at life this way. All they want is the pain to go away - but you see how this is actually also a way of saying "Yes!" to life? Because fundamentally want you want is a happy life, obviously. You don't want "no life at all", but a life that is worth living. People who are suicidal say that they don't want to live anymore, which is the actually the result of the desire for a happy life, but having lost all hope that they could ever live a happy life, and so they say that it would be better not to live altogether. Which is perfectly alright, imo. 

@Elshaddai You say "spare them life's suffering". Which is of course the same as saying "spare them life's happiness". 

By not bringing anyone into existence, there's nobody to spare from life's suffering/joy. 

Also, you say "death is guaranteed", which is true. Therefore you must remember this: when you're dead, it's as though you have never lived. Let that sink in... It also means, that it's as though you have never suffered.

 

In the end there really is not right/wrong answer to this question, because it's completely up to you whether you think life is worth living despite the suffering or not. Both ways are acceptable. 

I think in most cases there is more suffering and struggle than joy.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Blackhawk

[How to be wise]

@Elshaddai Wise and good only means: what will make me happy in the future. So if you think that children will make you happy, then it is wise to have them.

[Blackhawk]

7 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Elshaddai Wise and good only means: what will make me happy in the future. So if you think that children will make you happy, then it is wise to have them.

I think that's why people get children.

And then those children will be unhappy as adults, so they too have to make children in an attempt to get happy.

And those children too will be unhappy as adults, so they too have to make children in an attempt to get happy.

Repeat forever.

In my opinion it's selfish.

But again, that's just my stupid little opinion.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Blackhawk

[How to be wise]

49 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

In my opinion it's selfish.

Why shouldn’t we be selfish in life? We only have one of it, so we need to make the best of it we can.

[Blackhawk]

5 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Why shouldn’t we be selfish in life? We only have one of it, so we need to make the best of it we can.

But don't you think it's problematic when your happiness creates suffering for someone else?

If you don't think it's problematic: then you think rape is fine?

[No Self]

3 hours ago, meow_meow said:

Yes, this is true of course, but if you have the finances, intelligence and overall circumstances to raise children and if you want them, go ahead.
otherweise - please don't.

Wait, you're using commonsense? Get outta here!

A question of this magnitude deserves a deep exploration. The amount of suffering visited upon a being with shithouse parents is absolutely unimaginable; the 'gift' that keeps on giving. And yet, the most thoughtless people will have the most children - cult leaders, religious extremists, drug addicts, etc. being extreme examples.

Added to this, our economic reality is gravitating towards a scenario where the majority of people are serfs who have little or no hope of ever achieving freedom or financial independence. And did I mention the dwindling state of the environment? Or the toxic political climate at just about every level?

What does make sense, at least in theory, is trying to help children who are already here. 

[How to be wise]

43 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

But don't you think it's problematic when your happiness creates suffering for someone else?

If you don't think it's problematic: then you think rape is fine?

‘Someone else’ is only a concept. And most people won’t enjoy raping even if it was legal.

[Sempiternity]

Surprised no one brought up this video on this very subject. Everything is created by God, and everything is the same thing. A child is the same as a rock, both are consciousness. Having children to perpetuate the species is an illusion. There is only God for eternity imagining things within its consciousness. 

Reproduction Is An Illusion - Why It Doesn't Matter If You Have Kids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0fmj0Im_ZU

[Carl-Richard]

You'll spare them death but you'll also spare them life. Anti-natalism is ironically enough survival-based thinking: fear, contraction > exploration, expansion. It frames life as a harmful place as opposed to an innately beautiful cosmos of infinite creativity.

Edited December 25, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Gesundheit]

Life is like 5% suffering, max. The rest 95% you're free to make it however you want.