How long can you try to help somebody before it becomes futile

[Dlavjr]

I've been told not to put a lot of energy into helping individual people, but I tend to do it anyways. My girlfriend is a very aggressively anxious person. She has very low self esteem, very deep depression, and a ton of anxiety which sometimes comes out in anger. I've been coaching her through breathing exercises, got her going to therapy, and generally she cares more about herself than she did before we were dating. However, she's only doing well when she's with me. Without me, she is as anxious, angry and depressed as ever. Is it more likely that she grows and develops and what I show her will spill into her life, or that her anxieties and aggressions will spill into our relationship thus ruining it? I've only been with her for about 5 months, so it's still a honeymoon phase. I enjoy all of our time together, I love spending time with her, but how she is with her family and how her anxiety is gives me a lot of red flags. 

[Gesundheit]

If you were her, what would you want your partner to do?

[Dlavjr]

9 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

If you were her, what would you want your partner to do?

Ideally provide love and support, which I do when we're together, but I often feel like her emotions otherwise shroud her and I find that when she gets stressed out she dissociates and lashes out at anyone who tries to bring her back to presence. I've been patient with her and loving and it works and helps, I just don't want it to continue to where I need to be there for her constantly. 

I guess my real question is, how can you tell if somebody is learning to help themselves and develop, as opposed to using you as an emotional crutch? 

[mandyjw]

You can actually tell by how it feels. True help comes out of sheer love and inspiration, not a sense of duty or responsibility.  It is good to give someone a fish sometimes, but the purpose is to fend of their hunger for a time only so they have the energy to continue to work and focus on learning to fish. If you yourself get hooked on the good feeling of giving someone a fish, that's codependency. You really have to watch your thoughts and feelings closely with self love to see through to what's really going on. 

 

[Dlavjr]

20 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

You can actually tell by how it feels. True help comes out of sheer love and inspiration, not a sense of duty or responsibility.  It is good to give someone a fish sometimes, but the purpose is to fend of their hunger for a time only so they have the energy to continue to work and focus on learning to fish. If you yourself get hooked on the good feeling of giving someone a fish, that's codependency. You really have to watch your thoughts and feelings closely with self love to see through to what's really going on. 

 

That's very sound advice, thank you. I guess I never thought of looking inward here because I was always looking for signs in other people. 

[SamC]

1 hour ago, Dlavjr said:

I've been told not to put a lot of energy into helping individual people, but I tend to do it anyways. My girlfriend is a very aggressively anxious person. She has very low self esteem, very deep depression, and a ton of anxiety which sometimes comes out in anger. I've been coaching her through breathing exercises, got her going to therapy, and generally she cares more about herself than she did before we were dating. However, she's only doing well when she's with me. Without me, she is as anxious, angry and depressed as ever. Is it more likely that she grows and develops and what I show her will spill into her life, or that her anxieties and aggressions will spill into our relationship thus ruining it? I've only been with her for about 5 months, so it's still a honeymoon phase. I enjoy all of our time together, I love spending time with her, but how she is with her family and how her anxiety is gives me a lot of red flags. 

The truth is that you can't really help her. You can give ger love, support and suggestions as to what you think might help her but it's her life, Only she can solve her issues.

I understand that you want to help her and that's okey and super caring you, but in reality - you can't be her savior. Eventhough she and you would like that to be the case. You're codependent to her, which is super understandable - but it's not healthy and beneficial for you or your relationship in the long turn. It will destroy it.

I would honestly try to get out of this relationship and than figure out why you got into this relationship in the first place. What does she give you that you desperately need? What can you give her that she desperately needs. If this is not an option, be there for her, give her love support and meet her with understanding. You have your life to live, it's not the partners task to save the other partner. That's not love, that's fear and codependency.

Edited December 23, 2020 by SamC

[Gesundheit]

It's a VERY difficult situation.

On the one hand, I don't think it's a good idea to be in a relationship when there's too much suffering and turbulence. Spiritual awakening is a delicate situation that virtually no one ever is equipped enough, let alone willing to take care of another person going through it. The process can be extremely messy and unpredictable. It's hard to know what's best to do at any given moment. Sometimes, the other person will need comforting, and some other times they will need a slapping.

On the other hand, it's hard to break up with someone going through so much pain because that will further add to their pain, let alone losing a very valuable, supportive, and understanding person on their side. Yet, eventually they have to go it alone anyways. At some point, they'd have to realize for themselves that they have to face their demons alone.

Ethically, are you obliged to stay? Of course not. Yet, you could be the fine line between two radically different experiences for the other person.

Unfortunately, I can't answer the question.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Gesundheit

[flowboy]

Just think - how much support and energy would you put in if she was not your girlfriend but just an unattractive friend you only had known for 5 months?

People who start relationships are almost always on a comparable level of emotional wellbeing. If she has issues, and you attracted her, then you have issues of similar size. Perhaps not the same issues, but complementary ones.

So... are you even in a position to be helping her?

[Dlavjr]

On 12/23/2020 at 6:08 PM, flowboy said:

Just think - how much support and energy would you put in if she was not your girlfriend but just an unattractive friend you only had known for 5 months?

People who start relationships are almost always on a comparable level of emotional wellbeing. If she has issues, and you attracted her, then you have issues of similar size. Perhaps not the same issues, but complementary ones.

So... are you even in a position to be helping her?

If it was the case that I picked her up prior to getting to know her I'd agree with you point. In this case, I've known the girl for quite some time. It's a complicated situation for me because I'm attracted to her and love being in her presence and spending time with her, but her life outside of me is filled with issues. 

The way I see it, one of two things could happen. Either she takes after me in my lifestyle and I can maintain who I am as the masculine, and hopefully by taking lead, she'll follow and she'll adopt what she learns into other aspects of her life, or she'll tear me down with her. I guess, in that sense, I can answer my own question by saying that it's up to how I act and whether or not I can stay authentic to myself and not adopt her issues, but also I wonder if I'm underestimating relationships and psychology and it's not that simple. 

[Dlavjr]

On 12/23/2020 at 11:20 AM, Keyhole said:

Have a talk with her about boundaries and ask her if she wants to set some from a conscious place.  Don't shut her out, but ask if you two would like to create some - and build on them and from them.  Those boundaries are the "rock" from which you both will move forward, this will ease her anxiety more than anything, rather than overgiving.

These boundaries create a feedback loop.  Like an egg in a nest.  What you feed into it is what you will get.  Like music.

Each boundary is a different instrument, and what you add to it or take away is how the song of your relationship will end up like.  Ask her to create some of her own as well.

How does this work, then, in the case of her being the type to shut out her emotions easily? It seems like when she gets anxious about something, which she gets anxious about many things, she loses sense of her core values. Her authentic self, or at least the most authentic version that I've seen of her, is far different than the timid and self conscious self that she presents to family, coworkers, etc. 

[Dlavjr]

On 12/23/2020 at 11:02 AM, SamC said:

 What does she give you that you desperately need? What can you give her that she desperately needs. 

I certainly feel like I have more to give, but I also have little desire to take. I'm with her because I enjoy the time together and I think she's kind and caring, but I require very little. I have my own goals and path, and I intend on maintaining those things. I tend to want to bring people along with me, and she seems like she needs somebody to ground her as well as push her to develop. 

I'm content with where I am with helping her develop, but I fear not knowing when enough is enough, and when it gets to the point that it's clear that she will not grow. 

[Dlavjr]

On 12/23/2020 at 11:03 AM, Gesundheit said:

It's a VERY difficult situation.

On the one hand, I don't think it's a good idea to be in a relationship when there's too much suffering and turbulence. Spiritual awakening is a delicate situation that virtually no one ever is equipped enough, let alone willing to take care of another person going through it. The process can be extremely messy and unpredictable. It's hard to know what's best to do at any given moment. Sometimes, the other person will need comforting, and some other times they will need a slapping.

On the other hand, it's hard to break up with someone going through so much pain because that will further add to their pain, let alone losing a very valuable, supportive, and understanding person on their side. Yet, eventually they have to go it alone anyways. At some point, they'd have to realize for themselves that they have to face their demons alone.

Ethically, are you obliged to stay? Of course not. Yet, you could be the fine line between two radically different experiences for the other person.

Unfortunately, I can't answer the question.

It's certainly tough, yes. That's a battle that comes with relationships that don't come out of two people at the same stage in development. I don't particularly want to exit the relationship but I know that further down the line I either need her to be developed to where she has found her own purpose and is self sufficient, or I need to not be with her. 

I'm not picky or dependent enough to require somebody to be at my stage now but I don't want to dig a hole for myself to where I'm with somebody that depends on me fully in all aspects. 

[SamC]

3 hours ago, Dlavjr said:

I certainly feel like I have more to give, but I also have little desire to take. I'm with her because I enjoy the time together and I think she's kind and caring, but I require very little. I have my own goals and path, and I intend on maintaining those things. I tend to want to bring people along with me, and she seems like she needs somebody to ground her as well as push her to develop. 

Awsome that you care about this person mate - I've been in similar situations many times. What I'm trying to get at is that you're emotionally codependent to her. You see your path, as a way to save her.

" I tend to want to bring people with me, and she seems like she needs somebody to ground her as well as push her to develop".

In other words her obsession and desperste need of you makes you feel loved, it's deep stuff. You give her secerity and is her savior in a way. If you're where to leave her you would fear for her future health and development, and you know that. Why? Cause She needs someone to ground her - aka she needs you. Just like you need her.

Note bro, that its nothing wrong about that, but it's destructive in the long turn. It will cause a lot of suffering and destroy the relationship. That's my message and perspective, now do whatever the fuck you want it. Take care man.

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by SamC