Stage Green conflict: Jimmy Dore vs AOC

[Raze]

Jimmy Dore runs a progressive youtube channel and has called for AOC and the squad of progressive democratic caucus to withhold their vote for Pelosi as speaker unless she forces a floor vote for Medicare for all. He argues that this would force the democrats to admit in advance if they are behind medicare for all, and if it passes the house would require the senate to strike it down during a pandemic. Brianha Joy Gray and Kyle Kulinsky have agreed and are supporting it and got #forcethevote trending on twitter.

However AOC responded and basically said she isn't going to do it. In addition supporters of forcing the vote are lashing out at other progressives who are against it. This includes David Sirota, Benjamin Dixon, Ana Kasparian and Cenk Uygur who responded on twitter.

 

[Leo Gura]

TYT is a large organization with like 80+ employees. A $20 mil investment in them is not so big.

80 employees @ $50,000 per year average salary (which is low) = $4 million per year annual salary expenses alone.

Jimmy is falling deep into the Mean Green trap that Wilber talks about.

[Preety_India]

AOC is right here. 

Dore is simply trying to agitate. 

[Apparition of Jack]

Jimmy Dore is a grifter who is high on his own farts and once he got a taste of some modicum of power (being one of the major figures in the Movement for a People’s Party) he suddenly saw himself as some sort of “progressive kingmaker.” 

He’s utterly delusional and full of himself and almost certainly wants the Democrats to fail so he can increase his own power in the MPP and earn more money / fame / status / power etc as a result.

IMO he should be ignored entirely and be considered as helpful as a Trump fascist in fighting for progressive change.

[Heart of Space]

1 hour ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Jimmy Dore is a grifter who is high on his own farts and once he got a taste of some modicum of power (being one of the major figures in the Movement for a People’s Party) he suddenly saw himself as some sort of “progressive kingmaker.” 

He’s utterly delusional and full of himself and almost certainly wants the Democrats to fail so he can increase his own power in the MPP and earn more money / fame / status / power etc as a result.

IMO he should be ignored entirely and be considered as helpful as a Trump fascist in fighting for progressive change.

Yea, I don't watch him much, but I think your description is really good.

Not to mention it takes zero balls to be the guy that says everyone should get a bunch of free shit.  This black and white always anti-war no matter the context, always say yes to every socialist concept is so unbelievably one sided and stupid.  These progressives always paint anyone who disagrees with them as completely stupid in the most smug way possible.  Like yea bro, everybody in politics dumb but you, you are the only smart reasonable person in existence.  

Let's forget the fact that most of them are completely economically illiterate. 

Reasonable question guy:  "Hey man, how are you going to pay for trillions of dollars increase in social spending that would dwarf previous years budget by 500%?"

Progressive:  "uh well like we payed for unnecessary wars and corporate tax cuts, bro"

Reasonable question guy: "OK, I totally agree, but that doesn't answer the question, it kinda just points to other shitty uses of government money, which isn't a justification for what you want to use the money for."

 

[GroovyGuru]

@Leo Gura Forget about Jimmy Dore for a second. 

What do you think of the strategy itself? I guess the argument is that this is the perfect opportunity given that we are in a global pandemic with hundreds of thousands dead for progressives to actually use some power and leverage to try to have a proper fight of getting Medicare for All.
 

People like Kyle say even if they lose or not enough progressives hold out their vote or whatever, it’s still a “win” because those fake progressives will be scrutinized for years to come for publicly opposing Medicare for All during a deadly pandemic. I think even Sam Seder said he agreed with Jimmy on this one. 
 

I am confused though on why people are so optimistic about it. Even if Med4All passes the House won’t it just get shut down in the Senate or even vetoed by Biden if it reaches his desk? People are saying if not now, then Medicare for All will never happen. It certainly doesn’t seem like it can happen anytime soon

[Leo Gura]

@GroovyGuru There won't be Medicare For All because not enough people support it.

[Joel3102]

Watching from Australia it’s a little bizarre seeing progressives die on the hill of Medicare for all completely replacing private health insurance. We have Medicare for all here but private health is still very prominent.

Most people support a public option in the US and it would still be universal coverage, so why not move to that for now? Why insist on only moving from the furthest right healthcare in the developed world to the further left (abolishing private health all together)?

[Leo Gura]

@Joel3102 Abolishing private insurance is pretty important because it's a cartel system. They have so much power they will try to dismantle and undo any public option.

The American medical cartel is much worse than in any other country.

There is simply no purpose for private insurance companies. It's a total scam. Insurance is the perfect function for government. Government already insures the most essential things. The insurance industry is basically a bunch of grifting middlemen screwing people over to make ridiculous margins for a commodity service. Insurance is as bad as loansharking.

Government can easily create a monopoly on auto insurance, house insurance, disaster insurance, life insurance, health insurance. It would be a huge savings for people.

[Joel3102]

@Leo Gura But my point is that progressives should be willing to compromise to a public option for now, as many Western countries still have a much better system that is a hybrid. Rather than follow Jimmy Dore or Kulinski’s advice and spend all your political capital something which won’t get passed 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

But my point is that progressives should be willing to compromise to a public option for now

I generally agree.

Although a public option might be undermined by the American insurance cartel.

It's tricky because if you compromise too much you end up with a system so bad that people hate it.

But then again, nothing gets done without some compromise. The compromises have be strategic.

[Joel3102]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I generally agree.

Although a public option might be undermined by the American insurance cartel.

It's tricky because if you compromise too much you end up with a system so bad that people hate it.

But then again, nothing gets done without some compromise. The compromises have be strategic.

Here we have a Medicare levy for everyone of 2% of your income, seems to work pretty well.

although it doesn’t cover for example dentistry, so you’re screwed if you’re really poor in that area still

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

although it doesn’t cover for example dentistry

That's easy to include. Just raise it to 2.2%.

[Preety_India]

Medicare for all should really happen there. 

 

[Apparition of Jack]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I generally agree.

Although a public option might be undermined by the American insurance cartel.

It's tricky because if you compromise too much you end up with a system so bad that people hate it.

But then again, nothing gets done without some compromise. The compromises have be strategic.

I think the point is that it’s too early for an M4A but not too early for a public option, and to get to M4A we’ll need a public option first. Too many Americans are still brainwashed to think public healthcare is a communist plot to destroy the west, so giving them a small taste of its benefits (public option) would finally convince enough people to go the distance (M4A.)