Nothing but existent??

[Mindfang413]

So i have been asking this question recently but i dont know if anyones on the same page here when it comes to terminology. I keep asking if consciousness is something or nothing out of confusion. Because what i think of when hearing the word nothing is that consciousness doesnt exist. But clearly, since it is happening, it exists. I dont think nothing and nonexistence are the same thing (in this context) and that people need to clarify what they mean by this. Yes it may not be a physical thing, anywhere at any time, but it still EXISTS correct? Its existence itself. So why are people calling it nothing? Do you mean it does not exist? Because that does not make any sense.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Mindfang413

[Hulia]

There is this popular example with the cinema. Imagine, you are in the cinema and watching the movie. You see people, cars, trees. But they are just  the projection on the screen.

And now go further.

There is no projector,   no screen,   no spectator.  

The pictures (nor sure, this is the right word) come from nowhere to nowhere for nobody. In nothingness.

I hope, I wasn´t inaccurate in the explanation, since I haven´t had direct experience. 

 

[OctagonOctopus]

@Mindfang413

The problem is you are making a distinction between something and nothing. Nothing does exist, Absolute Nothing and that nothing is the something that is everything. There isn't anything that doesn't exist because if it doesn't exist it wouldn't exist, everything exists this is Infinity. 
Conciousness is Absolute Nothing, the nothing that includes all somethings within it. 

[Mindfang413]

@OctagonOctopus Thank you for clarifying. I think i understand now. People sometimes use the terms nothing and nonexistence interchangably and that was confusing me.

[Mindfang413]

@Hulia I think i understand. However when you say no spectator, do u mean no physical, separate entity? If thats what u mean, then i get it.

As far as i can tell, the awareness that observes the appearences exists. Though they are more one in the same, the same process i guess.

[Hulia]

18 minutes ago, Mindfang413 said:

However when you say no spectator, do u mean no physical, separate entity?

No. No physyical, no metaphysical or whatsoever. Nobody´s there.

 

22 minutes ago, Mindfang413 said:

As far as i can tell, the awareness that observes the appearences exists. Though they are more one in the same, the same process i guess.

The awareness which is aware of itself. It´s more accurate.

Since you are right, the awareness and the appearences are the same. 

[OctagonOctopus]

 

@Mindfang413

You could say what doesn't exist is the world that the ego makes up, overlays over The Real, and says it is what is true. But it does exist, as an illusion, imagination, being projected as the truth. What is true is what is. Presence. 

[Thought Art]

@Mindfang413 In order for consciousness to be everything, it has to be 'Nothing'. It's the ultimate shape shifter. Non-existences doesn't exist ahaha

@OctagonOctopus Relativity and ego do exist

Edited December 20, 2020 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Mindfang413 said:

Because what i think of when hearing the word nothing is that consciousness doesnt exist. But clearly, since it is happening, it exists. I dont think nothing and nonexistence are the same thing and that people need to clarify what they mean by this.

Your intuition is correct.

Existence has no opposite. Existence includes both something and nothing. Nothing is not non-existence. Nothing is existence.

Consciousness exists, as Nothing. Your entire life experience has been an experience of Nothing. Life is what Nothing looks like and feels like. The key mistake you've made is that you've assumed that life is not nothing.

Life = Nothing. The end.

What humans call "non-existence" is actually pure existence as emptiness. A non-existent object is simply the existence of emptiness. It exists! As emptiness. But you have confused this for non-existence.

When your dog dies, it continues to exist. As emptiness. All that happens in death is the loss of form and a return to existence as emptiness. Nothing is ever really lost.

[OctagonOctopus]

 

38 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@OctagonOctopus Relativity and ego do exist

Yes, as mind, a holographic projection used for survival.

Edited December 20, 2020 by OctagonOctopus

[ajai]

When your dog dies, it continues to exist. 

In the realm of perception atleast.

[Forestluv]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What humans call "non-existence" is actually pure existence as emptiness. A non-existent object is simply the existence of emptiness. It exists! As emptiness. But you have confused this for non-existence.

I see a lot of people use a frame like “A unicorn doesn’t exist”. 

Would it be correct usage of your context to say “A unicorn exists as emptiness”? 

It seems a non-existent object needs empty existence. Without the empty existence, there is no non-existence. 

[ajai]

Everything is existent including "Non Existence", so to speak, as long as there's cognition.

Edited December 20, 2020 by ajai

[Hulia]

@Mindfang413 I just opened youtube and entered "Leo Gura" Et voila! THe 5th video in my list was this one. I just watched it myself. It was exactly the right video in the right moment. I recommend it very much

 

[Mindfang413]

4 hours ago, Forestluv said:

I see a lot of people use a frame like “A unicorn doesn’t exist”. 

Would it be correct usage of your context to say “A unicorn exists as emptiness”? 

It seems a non-existent object needs empty existence. Without the empty existence, there is no non-existence. 

This is what i think too.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Forestluv said:

I see a lot of people use a frame like “A unicorn doesn’t exist”. 

Would it be correct usage of your context to say “A unicorn exists as emptiness”? 

No. A unicorn exists as a concept.

But if you mean that thing the concept "unicorn" is supposed to point to, that exists as emptiness relative to planet Earth. But it could exist as a solid form because consciousness is unlimited. Just because no human has seen a unicorn doesn't mean it cannot be seen by consciousness.

[7thLetter]

@Leo Gura This whole entire thread just changed my understanding.

If life is a dream or an illusion, does physical reality exist or not? Is it just a projection of the ego mind or a projection of God's mind since this is "God's Dream"? Physical reality is and exists within' consciousness after all, right?

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Consciousness exists, as Nothing. Your entire life experience has been an experience of Nothing. Life is what Nothing looks like and feels like. The key mistake you've made is that you've assumed that life is not nothing.

Life = Nothing. The end.

When you say life is what Nothing looks like and feels like, then that implies physical reality exists? I just recently experienced ego death, my physical reality shattered, no form no self, and my understanding was that this is what Nothing means. So then both physical ego self and no-self exist as Nothing? Then is "Nothing" just another label basically?

I've been behind on the videos

Edited December 21, 2020 by 7thLetter

[electroBeam]

14 hours ago, Mindfang413 said:

So i have been asking this question recently but i dont know if anyones on the same page here when it comes to terminology. I keep asking if consciousness is something or nothing out of confusion. Because what i think of when hearing the word nothing is that consciousness doesnt exist. But clearly, since it is happening, it exists. I dont think nothing and nonexistence are the same thing and that people need to clarify what they mean by this. Yes it may not be a physical thing, anywhere at any time, but it still EXISTS correct? Its existence itself. So why are people calling it nothing? Do you mean it does not exist? Because that does not make any sense.

have you actually observed non-existence before?

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No. A unicorn exists as a concept.

But if you mean that thing the concept "unicorn" is supposed to point to, that exists as emptiness relative to planet Earth. But it could exist as a solid form because consciousness is unlimited. Just because no human has seen a unicorn doesn't mean it cannot be seen by consciousness.

There is no apple hovering in front of me. Yet for there to be the non-existence of apple in front of me, there exists the emptiness of that apple. Perhaps I’m not using terms precisely or I’m off base. 

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

There is no apple hovering in front of me. Yet for there to be the non-existence of apple in front of me, there exists the emptiness of that apple. Perhaps I’m not using terms precisely or I’m off base. 

my feel is that there are multiple layers here: non existence, concept, existence.

Concept is a subset of existence, along with other layers like material reality, sleep dream reality, psychedelic hallucinations.

An apple may not have physically manifested as material, but may have physically manifested as a concept or in sleep dream. If the apple is in concept but not in material reality, then relative to material reality, the apple exists as non-existence. Yet this is all occurring within existence.

An apple though could never occur in non-existence, because non existence does not contain the material, conceptual or sleep dream realms. It contains no realms, pure mu or nothingness.

For example, its wrong to say a pink elephant existed as non-existence throughout this entire reading, because the elephant just manifested in the concept realm as soon as this paragraph was read. There was literally no pink elephant before. 

Therefore that non-existence cannot have any manifestation or form in actuality.

Yet non-existence is much more akin to dementia/amnesia. If you're saying a unicorn does not exist, IME that non existence is happening in existence.

Edited December 21, 2020 by electroBeam