Does an invitation to trip together imply sex?

[Karmadhi]

@Leo Gura Alright. Could you please answer:  does this advice apply to all girls? What about shy serious cold kind of girls? There are some girls which are super open to serious deep conversations but its hard af to get them to be playful and do small talk. When i mean serious deep conversations i am not saying no humor or teasing at all. Just you guys talk about a specific topic rather than changing topics every 20 seconds with 0 meaning or substance like you do during small talk.

Really curious about this, what do you think

[Arcangelo]

Does an invitation to trip together imply sex?

Yes

7 hours ago, eggopm3 said:

maybe I could approach things from an angle of "I dont like to trip in unfamiliar places, and i'd like to get to know you better first, so let's do something else instead for now". or something like that.

NO.

[bejapuskas]

9 hours ago, eggopm3 said:

no no this is all very appreciated. I need to bounce this stuff off of somebody! This is all good and worthwhile feedback. And like I said this may or may not even happen, no plans have been set in stone at all. all that has happened is that she told me (on more than one occasion so I know it wasn't a flippant suggestion) that she thinks we should take mushrooms together. then I've gone "hmmmmmmmm...????"

I was just teasing.

9 hours ago, eggopm3 said:

I wonder how much of that is because she knew that since I've done psychedelics I wouldn't judge her? Like I totally get the idea of starting with small talk and building up to deeper stuff over time, but most girls haven't smoked DMT before so at least in that sense she's not like "most girls" (insert "I'm not like other girls" meme here lol) 

Perhaps she is not being judged and she does not need you not to judge her, perhaps she wants something else, like fun.

9 hours ago, eggopm3 said:

I would really like this actually. My place isn't an option due to a lack of privacy, and I obviously can't insist on coming over to her place without being invited. But if she does continue to insist that we trip together it would have to be at her place, so that would necessitate her inviting me over at some point eventually. And maybe I could approach things from an angle of "I dont like to trip in unfamiliar places, and i'd like to get to know you better first, so let's do something else instead for now". or something like that.

You don't have to listen to everything she says, she is not your parent and you are not her child.

[electroBeam]

On 12/19/2020 at 3:29 PM, eggopm3 said:

So I work with this really cool girl who’s into spirituality and psychedelics, a SD stage green-type for sure (and she’s pretty intelligent so definitely potential to grow to yellow). Totally the type of person that I’ve been self-actualizing to try and attract. Our conversations have been gradually growing deeper over time and we had a little coffee date together recently and I feel like there’s potential between us. We chatted about our trips, and she's clearly had some awakening-type experiences (on a wider variety of substances than I have for what it's worth). She seemed to really like that I’m as into psychedelics as much she is, so it didnt take long for her to suggest that we do mushrooms together. 

Now I’m experienced enough with psychedelics by this point that that aspect alone isn’t something I’m too concerned about. I can handle my shit just fine as long as we’re not hero-dosing (which I don't think we would be). But on the other hand I’m still a virgin, never even had a proper kiss before (with one exception while wasted drunk at a party many years ago which I wouldn’t really count because I barely even remember it, and it certainly wasn't romantic in the slightest). And spending a trip with just me and this girl, seems to me to imply that sex will be on the table. Am I wrong in assuming this? I have no idea what the proper “trip etiquette” is in this department. Nearly all my trips have been solo experiences (the only exception was one time with a male friend, but that was more of a trip-sitting situation), so I’m not used to tripping with other people and especially not alone with the opposite sex before. So far we haven't gone beyond talking with each other, so going straight from that to tripping together feels a bit like jumping in the deep end really quickly! But obviously I’m not opposed to the idea.

So there’s a real possibility that I could lose my virginity while on mushrooms, which is uhh, quite something! But it also makes me apprehensive since being a virgin I lack the experience with sex, and then on top of that the mushrooms could twist that to a new level. I long ago decided that I wouldn’t let anxiety over being a virgin become a self-fulfilling prophecy to continue perpetuating my virginity (I’ve spent more than enough of my life letting neurosis control me like that), and that if the situation arose I’d just go for it. But when throwing mushrooms into the mix I have no idea how things would go.

Like if I was going to be sober or even just drunk or stoned my attitude would be totally different towards a sexual situation. But on mushrooms I have no idea. I don't even know if I could get hard on mushrooms (I know I easily can with LSD-analogues, but with mushrooms it’s seemed like kind of a toss up so far in my solo experiences). Maybe that could be the perfect excuse for poor lovemaking skills since I could just blame it on my trip being really weird. Or on the other hand maybe we’ll just both go God-mode and it’ll be no problem at all and the most natural thing ever. I have no idea! Or am I getting waaaaay ahead of myself and the invitation to trip together doesn’t imply sex at all?

So far a date for this proposed trip has not been set, so maybe she’ll change her mind and it wont happen. Since she was the one who suggested it and presumably it would be happening at her place with her supply of mushrooms I’ve decided that the ball is in her court in terms of planning this. I’m certainly not going to pressure her to make this happen if she decides against it. So I guess I’m looking for advice. This forum is the only place I know where dating and psychedelics overlap, so if anybody might have thoughts on the situation it would be here. My gut says to just go for it and roll with whatever ends up happening. But since I have no psychedelic friends in my life (aside from this girl) to bounce this situation off of I guess I’m throwing it out to you guys to see what your thoughts are.

have sex with her it if feels right.

don't have sex with her if it doesn't feel right.

This is more of an opportunity to explore each other transpersonally more than anything IMO. If that turns out to include sex then great, if not then great.

[eggopm3]

20 hours ago, neutralempty said:

Hahahahah. Why do you even care if it leads to sex or not.

why wouldnt I care? I usually plan my trips out pretty thoroughly, I'd rather not be taken by surprise if things suddenly took a turn in that direction. And regardless of the tripping angle I'd think anybody would care about their first time.

13 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

NO.

More specific please.  and why so emphatic? No I shouldn't back out of a trip with her? No I shouldn’t use this kind of reasoning to do so? No for some other reason?

12 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

You don't have to listen to everything she says, she is not your parent and you are not her child.

This is a fair angle for sure. Being inexperienced with relationships this is a trap I should watch out for. I think that a factor that made me feel like I should accept her suggestion to trip together is precisely because I'd take any chance that was offered to spend some time with her regardless of what it was. And right now, thanks to covid eliminating most indoor activities and winter weather eliminating most outdoor activities, those opportunities are few and far between. If this were any other year I could have suggested christmas or new years parties or whatever. The normally large number of movies that come out around this time would have made for an easy date choice too. I play in a band and often attend concerts, so I could have invited her one of those events. but those are all not options right now. She probably does want fun, and I'd like to have fun too! But what can we do for fun right now? I suppose that's an opportunity for creativity in date ideas, which is an area that I've never devoted much creative energy towards because I never had to until now!

12 hours ago, electroBeam said:

have sex with her it if feels right.

don't have sex with her if it doesn't feel right.

This is more of an opportunity to explore each other transpersonally more than anything IMO. If that turns out to include sex then great, if not then great.

"exploring each other transpersonally" is an ideal scenario for a hypothetical couple's trip, I love that idea. But I think we'd need to actually become a proper couple first to pull that off. In the early phase of a potential relationship that still isn't really established one way or another I'm not sure if it would feel right or not. Either way I feel like I need to go on more dates and spend more time with her before things get to that point. If after a few more dates I really feel like it's totally obvious that we're going to become a thing then maybe we can talk more openly about things from this angle. 

20 hours ago, flume said:

If she suggested tripping, that at least entails that she’s really interested in you. You don’t just trip with anyone. Take it as a big sign that she wants to get to know you better.

Yeah that's a good way to look at it. I definitely agree that you don't just trip with anyone, if a person I barely knew or didn't enjoy the company of asked me to trip with them I would say no. And I'd never suggest anybody else do so with me unless I was very close friends with them. (for instance the only non-solo trip I've had so far was with a friend I've known since we were kids so we both fully trusted one another). But on the other hand she's told me that she has tripped in group settings many times, so maybe she views psychedelics in a much more communal relationship-building sense than the more solo-personal development angle that I've come at them from.

20 hours ago, flume said:

If sex is gonna happen, so be it, but don’t plan on losing your virginity on psychedelics. Could be a weird reference point. (Or no reference point?)

Yes good point. I definitely am not specifically planning on it, more just that I'm open to the possibility, and considering the idea of that scenario from different angles. This thread has been very helpful for brainstorming about this. The more I think about it the more I feel like while I absolutely would like to trip with her, but I'd rather not lose my virginity under those conditions, especially since if I actually care about this girl and we are a good fit for one another than it would be a bigger deal than just a high one-night stand or whatever. If we actually became a couple for real then we could trip together to our hearts content, but going there so quickly I'm not sure if I'm ready for. Like what if she texts me and is like "hey I got a new batch of mushrooms let's trip tomorrow!" or something. I'm not sure how I would respond to that.

Edited December 21, 2020 by eggopm3

[Arcangelo]

16 minutes ago, eggopm3 said:

No I shouldn't back out of a trip with her?

^This.

[electroBeam]

@eggopm3

 

[bejapuskas]

18 hours ago, neutralempty said:

Hahahahah. Why do you even care if it leads to sex or not.

Yeh this is nothing to laugh about.

8 hours ago, eggopm3 said:

She probably does want fun, and I'd like to have fun too! But what can we do for fun right now? I suppose that's an opportunity for creativity in date ideas, which is an area that I've never devoted much creative energy towards because I never had to until now!

Isn't playing in a band kind of creative though? Do you have like a musical instrument at home or something? You could try playing together  I don't knooow, but you you can surely come up with something, there have been some good suggestions here.

[Leo Gura]

On 12/20/2020 at 0:36 PM, neutralempty said:

Hahahahah. Why do you even care if it leads to sex or not.

@Leo Gura

typical that you answered this.

Because the girl only gets serious after sex. Until then she's gonna be a flake.

On 12/20/2020 at 3:41 PM, Karmadhi said:

@Leo Gura Alright. Could you please answer:  does this advice apply to all girls? What about shy serious cold kind of girls? There are some girls which are super open to serious deep conversations but its hard af to get them to be playful and do small talk. When i mean serious deep conversations i am not saying no humor or teasing at all. Just you guys talk about a specific topic rather than changing topics every 20 seconds with 0 meaning or substance like you do during small talk.

Really curious about this, what do you think

Every girl loves humor and charm. There's no such thing as a serous cold girl. She's being that way because you got bad game or she's just not interested in you.

Of course not all girls will be interested in you, in which case you just move on to the next girl.

Attracting girls requires reaching a "hook point" where you can clearly see that she's attracted to you. Hook point is usually reached within 1-5 minutes. If the hook point never comes, then move other girls. Don't waste your time trying to get girls who can't reach hook point within 5-10 mins.

Serious deep conversations can happen after sex.

[Javfly33]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Because the girl only gets serious after sex. Until then she's gonna be a flake.

Every girl loves humor and charm. There's no such thing as a serous cold girl. She's being that way because you got bad game or she's just not interested in you.

Of course not all girls will be interested in you, in which case you just move on to the next girl.

Attracting girls requires reaching a "hook point" where you can clearly see that she's attracted to you. Hook point is usually reached within 1-5 minutes. If the hook point never comes, then move other girls. Don't waste your time trying to get girls who can't reach hook point within 5-10 mins.

Serious deep conversations can happen after sex.

That's such a radical different perspective from the usual mainstream seduction culture has taught us. (Not referring to PUA advice of course, just mainstream knowledge, movies, etc).

Thanks for sharing those clear "advices" Leo ?. Will make us waste less lot of time and energy ? 

[eggopm3]

On 12/20/2020 at 11:01 PM, electroBeam said:

@eggopm3

 

Nice vid! I enjoyed it.

On 12/21/2020 at 7:17 AM, bejapuskas said:

Isn't playing in a band kind of creative though? Do you have like a musical instrument at home or something?

Yep it is, though my main instrument is the drums so bashing away in front of somebody is a bit different than strumming guitars and singing cute songs together haha. But there's definitely room for creativity there. She is pretty artistic too, so I'd hope that that would be an area we could connect on.

So right now after some more reflection I’m thinking I’m leaning towards this angle on things: First of all, more dates prior to any psychedelic stuff. Then if she wants to trip with me I would accept, but I would add my own suggestion that for a first trip together we shouldn’t just sit around at her place getting blasted together. I would suggest that we take a low dose that's easily manageable for being in public (such as 0.5 grams mushrooms or 50ug acid, or maybe even less) and do some sort of activity such as going to an art gallery or exploring a park or something like that. That way both the "we're alone together what happens now?" aspect, as well as the risk of an "I'm tripping way too hard to behave rationally" situation are removed. Yet we would still get to share the experience together. And that would leave plenty of room for the potential for deeper future experiences if all goes well.

[bejapuskas]

@eggopm3  Sounds like you've grown.  

[Hello from Russia]

20 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

That's such a radical different perspective from the usual mainstream seduction culture has taught us. (Not referring to PUA advice of course, just mainstream knowledge, movies, etc).

Thanks for sharing those clear "advices" Leo ?. Will make us waste less lot of time and energy ? 

Yeah, the mainstream perspective on this stuff is such bullshit. I've been rewatching Harry Potter the other day and damn, the way he is getting portrayed in the movie is basically as INCEL, lol. It just feels so incompatible with the rest of the narrative how he is being portraited as this brave guy with a strong personality while at the same time he's being helpless before girls and prefers to cry himself out in his bedroom (????) rather than approach and nail that girl to the wall so to speak 

But I get it, they wanted to create this high school feel art-direction wise to appeal to the audience and I think they succeeded very well in it. There are tons of videos on youtube now with millions on views on how Harry ackwardly "firstkissing" everybody with a ton of comments from teenagers from all over the world. They did an amazing job, really

Edited December 23, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[IAmReallyImportant]

5 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

Yeah, the mainstream perspective on this stuff is such bullshit. I've been rewatching Harry Potter the other day and damn, the way he is getting portrayed in the movie is basically as INCEL, lol. It just feels so incompatible with the rest of the narrative how he is being portraited as this brave guy with a strong personality while at the same time he's being helpless before girls and prefers to cry himself out in his bedroom (????) rather than approach and nail that girl to the wall so to speak 

But I get it, they wanted to create this high school feel art-direction wise to appeal to the audience and I think they succeeded very well in it. There are tons of videos on youtube now with millions on views on how Harry ackwardly "firstkissing" everybody with a ton of comments from teenagers from all over the world. They did an amazing job, really

Look up Wikipedia Definition for incels.

[flowboy]

On 20-12-2020 at 7:50 PM, eggopm3 said:

I don't disagree with you here. I'd prefer to have sober experiences before getting more involved. but the girl is the one who suggested this not me. So the hypothetical situation could be that she insists on tripping with me and I turn her down. Perhaps this would disappoint her, but on the other hand perhaps this would deepen her respect for me? I don't know.

@eggopm3 No, just steer it around to a cooking-together date or something like that, sober but at home.

If you are too scared to say no to something she suggests, you are not respecting your own needs / desires, therefore she will respect you less as a result, therefore smaller chances of sex.

Suggest to do what you are comfortable with, the way you like it to progress.

Took me so much time to learn that.

[flowboy]

On 20-12-2020 at 7:50 PM, eggopm3 said:

My place isn't an option due to a lack of privacy, and I obviously can't insist on coming over to her place without being invited. But if she does continue to insist

I can tell by your usage of that word that you are anxious about pleasing and saying no / suggesting an alternative is a big deal to you. But it's not, not to confident people. Stop insisting and interpreting things as insisting, and start suggesting and interpreting things as suggestions.

You sure can invite yourself over to her place. Just don't insist. Simply suggest. "What's your kitchen like?" "Why?" "Just thinking it would be nice to cook something together and hang out. Let's do that this weekend." Done.

On 20-12-2020 at 7:50 PM, eggopm3 said:

But if she does continue to insist that we trip together it would have to be at her place, so that would necessitate her inviting me over at some point eventually. And maybe I could approach things from an angle of "I dont like to trip in unfamiliar places, and i'd like to get to know you better first, so let's do something else instead for now". or something like that.

No, that actually makes you sound like a pussy, and also it's a lie. Just tell the truth: "I like to get to know people a bit more before I trip with them. So how about we { insert date idea you are comfortable with }"

That is honest, and also sounds way cooler because you are expressing boundaries and self respect

[flowboy]

By the way, you don't even have to say no to the trip idea. Just leave it in the air as an abstract plan that you are open to, and do a bunch of other dates meanwhile. It's great to have a lot of open loops like that: stories you still have to finish telling her, and also activities you still have to look forward to.

 

Will you let us know how it went?

 

And if you shit the bed, can I get the girl's number? She sounds cool

Edited December 23, 2020 by flowboy