Does an invitation to trip together imply sex?

[eggopm3]

So I work with this really cool girl who’s into spirituality and psychedelics, a SD stage green-type for sure (and she’s pretty intelligent so definitely potential to grow to yellow). Totally the type of person that I’ve been self-actualizing to try and attract. Our conversations have been gradually growing deeper over time and we had a little coffee date together recently and I feel like there’s potential between us. We chatted about our trips, and she's clearly had some awakening-type experiences (on a wider variety of substances than I have for what it's worth). She seemed to really like that I’m as into psychedelics as much she is, so it didnt take long for her to suggest that we do mushrooms together. 

Now I’m experienced enough with psychedelics by this point that that aspect alone isn’t something I’m too concerned about. I can handle my shit just fine as long as we’re not hero-dosing (which I don't think we would be). But on the other hand I’m still a virgin, never even had a proper kiss before (with one exception while wasted drunk at a party many years ago which I wouldn’t really count because I barely even remember it, and it certainly wasn't romantic in the slightest). And spending a trip with just me and this girl, seems to me to imply that sex will be on the table. Am I wrong in assuming this? I have no idea what the proper “trip etiquette” is in this department. Nearly all my trips have been solo experiences (the only exception was one time with a male friend, but that was more of a trip-sitting situation), so I’m not used to tripping with other people and especially not alone with the opposite sex before. So far we haven't gone beyond talking with each other, so going straight from that to tripping together feels a bit like jumping in the deep end really quickly! But obviously I’m not opposed to the idea.

So there’s a real possibility that I could lose my virginity while on mushrooms, which is uhh, quite something! But it also makes me apprehensive since being a virgin I lack the experience with sex, and then on top of that the mushrooms could twist that to a new level. I long ago decided that I wouldn’t let anxiety over being a virgin become a self-fulfilling prophecy to continue perpetuating my virginity (I’ve spent more than enough of my life letting neurosis control me like that), and that if the situation arose I’d just go for it. But when throwing mushrooms into the mix I have no idea how things would go.

Like if I was going to be sober or even just drunk or stoned my attitude would be totally different towards a sexual situation. But on mushrooms I have no idea. I don't even know if I could get hard on mushrooms (I know I easily can with LSD-analogues, but with mushrooms it’s seemed like kind of a toss up so far in my solo experiences). Maybe that could be the perfect excuse for poor lovemaking skills since I could just blame it on my trip being really weird. Or on the other hand maybe we’ll just both go God-mode and it’ll be no problem at all and the most natural thing ever. I have no idea! Or am I getting waaaaay ahead of myself and the invitation to trip together doesn’t imply sex at all?

So far a date for this proposed trip has not been set, so maybe she’ll change her mind and it wont happen. Since she was the one who suggested it and presumably it would be happening at her place with her supply of mushrooms I’ve decided that the ball is in her court in terms of planning this. I’m certainly not going to pressure her to make this happen if she decides against it. So I guess I’m looking for advice. This forum is the only place I know where dating and psychedelics overlap, so if anybody might have thoughts on the situation it would be here. My gut says to just go for it and roll with whatever ends up happening. But since I have no psychedelic friends in my life (aside from this girl) to bounce this situation off of I guess I’m throwing it out to you guys to see what your thoughts are.

[bejapuskas]

53 minutes ago, eggopm3 said:

And spending a trip with just me and this girl, seems to me to imply that sex will be on the table. Am I wrong in assuming this?

You are smart not to assume there will not be sex. I think Leo never talks about this in his psychedelic videos (maybe because he discourages people from tripping in groups, but I still think some people might be too afraid of doing it alone so I don't trust someone to listen to this advice, although I think it is a good advice... this still needs to be discussed, because it might freak out people with AND without traumas around sexuality!), but many people start having intrusive sexual thoughts and they start thinking about having sex even with people they would never consider. It can look like: "I am so One that I need to multiply myself, I cannot handle this. Oh, reproduction, sounds like a solution!" Maybe I am insane to be writing this, but definitely make it clear before the trip, it might turn into some horrors. But if you do have sex, I think it might be amazing because you might also experience increased sensitivity, compassion, even telepathy. I just don't know what it might do to your brain chemistry. Amazing question though.

 

[bejapuskas]

53 minutes ago, eggopm3 said:

So there’s a real possibility that I could lose my virginity while on mushrooms, which is uhh, quite something! But it also makes me apprehensive since being a virgin I lack the experience with sex, and then on top of that the mushrooms could twist that to a new level. I long ago decided that I wouldn’t let anxiety over being a virgin become a self-fulfilling prophecy to continue perpetuating my virginity (I’ve spent more than enough of my life letting neurosis control me like that), and that if the situation arose I’d just go for it. But when throwing mushrooms into the mix I have no idea how things would go.

It is quite something and the answer is yes, they will twist it to a whole new level and yes you cannot predict anything. But then I read in a book that was talking about this (underground psychedelic therapist who had a LOT of experience with couples) that if you just make your intentions clear to each other before the trip, that it should get rid of the anxiety altogether  So I guess don't try to play cool just discuss it, trust me please.

56 minutes ago, eggopm3 said:

Like if I was going to be sober or even just drunk or stoned my attitude would be totally different towards a sexual situation. But on mushrooms I have no idea. I don't even know if I could get hard on mushrooms (I know I easily can with LSD-analogues, but with mushrooms it’s seemed like kind of a toss up so far in my solo experiences). Maybe that could be the perfect excuse for poor lovemaking skills since I could just blame it on my trip being really weird. Or on the other hand maybe we’ll just both go God-mode and it’ll be no problem at all and the most natural thing ever. I have no idea! Or am I getting waaaaay ahead of myself and the invitation to trip together doesn’t imply sex at all?

You have no idea so just talk it through with her. It seems like you too talk well and it shouldn't be a problem, and if it should be a problem, then not talking about it will only make it bigger. 

58 minutes ago, eggopm3 said:

So far a date for this proposed trip has not been set, so maybe she’ll change her mind and it wont happen. Since she was the one who suggested it and presumably it would be happening at her place with her supply of mushrooms I’ve decided that the ball is in her court in terms of planning this. I’m certainly not going to pressure her to make this happen if she decides against it. 

Yes please don't pressure her, you might seriously regret it. 

Overall I think your previous experiences will help a lot with this and maybe I am exaggerating but it is because some less experienced people might be reading this you know... Good luck and I wish it goes well and you experience what you need to experience.

[Cireeric]

In my opinion you shouldnt havin sex with her not the first time on psychedelics, especially if its your first time. I had the same experience with a girl I was tripping with her in the woods on LSD and it got really weird and she wanted sex the whole time but in the woold on lsd doesnt felt right for me in this moment so it got a bit weird. But all depends on you and how you feel but I thinl it. ould get overwhelmimg especially if its your first time having sex

Edited December 19, 2020 by Cireeric

[aurum]

@eggopm3

It wouldn't say it implies it without more context. But I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility. You guys are going to be alone together for a long period of time, so who knows.

What do you want? Do you want to lose your virginity to this girl? What are you looking to get out of this experience?

[hoodrow trillson]

When I tripped with a FWB, we didn't even fuck because it would've been too weird.  We weren't even in the same headspace to do that.  Not like the sex would be bad, it's just it would probably look like some weird alien-fleshbody action and it could weird you out.

I know someone that it kind of ruined sex for them because they saw it for what it really was.  

[eggopm3]

5 hours ago, hoodrow trillson said:

When I tripped with a FWB, we didn't even fuck because it would've been too weird.  We weren't even in the same headspace to do that.  Not like the sex would be bad, it's just it would probably look like some weird alien-fleshbody action and it could weird you out.

I know someone that it kind of ruined sex for them because they saw it for what it really was.  

mushrooms havent taken me in sexual directions often so far in my solo experiences, but freaky sexual visuals and thoughts definitely happen to me on acid, and usually I can roll with those just fine (I'd prefer nice sexual images obviously, but I always choose to accept whatever the trip throws at me). So I can get down with the weird shit if things take a turn in that direction. I may be a virgin but I'm not vanilla, just timid! But I'm definitely aware of the possibility that we might be in completely different headspaces making it not work even if we both wanted to. Either way, I have no plans on being the one who initiates anything. if she suddenly gets all flirty and starts touching me and stuff then of course it doesn't get more obvious then that, and I'll go for it. But if she keeps to herself then so will I. I'm sure it would still be a valuable bonding experience between us even if it doesn't get sexual in the slightest.

8 hours ago, aurum said:

It wouldn't say it implies it without more context. But I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility. You guys are going to be alone together for a long period of time, so who knows.

What do you want? Do you want to lose your virginity to this girl? What are you looking to get out of this experience?

Well by "implies it" I mean in the same way "netflix and chill" implies sex without actually saying it. is "mushrooms and chill" the psychonaut version of "netflix and chill"? 

Sure, I can't imagine anyone else who I currently know personally that I'd rather lose it to. She's a pretty cool girl I think. She's into spiritual teachers like Ram Dass, does yoga, is really into art, doesn't use social media or play video games, is passionate about nature and universal rights, loves future technology and other stuff like that. Pretty much every new thing she reveals about herself checks off another box for me. tbh when thinking about dating I've been a bit apprehensive about the idea about my use of psychedelics becoming an issue if I dated someone who turned out to be very ignorant on the topic. but with this girl it's not an issue but an asset! She's even growing her own mushrooms, so if I played my cards right I could get both a great girlfriend and never have to pay for mushrooms again. That is, of course, if she's interested in me in that way. Which is still something that, due to my lack of experience with dating and relationships, I'm not totally confident about. Maybe she just wants more psychedelic friends since it's not like that's a type of person you come across too often, and I can relate obviously. But I do know that I feel very comfortable around her, I'm able to be authentically myself without feeling too nervous or awkward, which is not something that I've experienced with girls who I've been interested in in the past.

Edited December 20, 2020 by eggopm3

[Roy]

Heavily.

[egoeimai]

@eggopm3 you're falling in love slowly. Ouch! 

Best luck. 

[bejapuskas]

44 minutes ago, egoeimai said:

you're falling in love slowly. Ouch!  

Hehe I am getting the feel that our OP will be unable to follow any advice haha

[Leo Gura]

Order of operations in dating is crucial. If you trip with a girl for your first date, the order will be wrong and you will go too deep too fast and it will feel weird and creepy -- which is the last thing girls want.

If you want to sleep with her, you need to dial back the depth and seriousness. Tripping is serious business. You should not be doing that on a first date. Your first dates must be light, playful, fun, and as low-investment as possible. A coffee.

By setting up a trip date, you're actually being needy as fuck. Why are you sharing such depth with some girl you haven't even slept with??? It makes no sense. Because you're needy, that's why. And she will smell it off you and it will creep her out. Save the tripping for after you slept with her 5 or 10 times.

Order. Of. Operations.

Escalation. Ladder.

Learn it and follow it.

DO NOT FALL IN LOVE BEFORE YOU SLEPT WITH HER! It's creepy as fuck.

The biggest way to turn a girl off is by being creepy and needy. And you're combining the two of them into the ultimate Incel combo.

P.S. If a girl not willing to agree to a coffee with you, she will never agree to do anything else with you. There is no lower investment ask than a coffee. If she won't agree to that, she just don't find you attractive and nothing you do will change that.

[egoeimai]

5 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

Hehe I am getting the feel that our OP will be unable to follow any advice haha

yeah! F..k that! haha

ain't no advice

[Karmadhi]

@Leo Gura Spot on advice 

It just sucks that if you re a deep kind of person who likes deep conversations rather than small talk teasing bullshit you' re kinda fucked regard dating.

Just curios, does this advice apply to all girls? What about shy serious cold kind of girls? There are some girls which are super open to serious deep conversations but its hard af to get them to be playful and do small talk. When i mean serious deep conversations i am not saying no humor or teasing at all. Just you guys talk about a specific topic rather than changing topics every 20 seconds with 0 meaning or substance like you do during small talk.

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Karmadhi

[Hello from Russia]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Leo Gura Spot on advice 

It just sucks that if you re a deep kind of person who likes deep conversations rather than small talk teasing bullshit you' re kinda fucked regard dating.

 

Not really, you just need to find the right girl, which is more the marketing problem rather than attraction problem, you need to be looking in the right places.

My girl gets turned on by my intellectual stimulation, especially when I present 10 different perspectives on the matter and make her "Experience" those. But it only works if you're making it exciting and you are passionate about it. Being boring doesn't work for sure.

Even take Leo. The way he presents his material isn't actually boring. He is actually constantly trying to spark emotion in you and hype you up. He wants to excite you and make you interested in his stuff.  I bet if he'd present his material in a dull academic manner that you usually see in universities, you probably wouldn't watch him.

It's more about your charisma and presentation skills rather than content

Edited December 20, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[bejapuskas]

4 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

It just sucks that if you re a deep kind of person who likes deep conversations rather than small talk teasing bullshit you' re kinda fucked regard dating.

Just curios, does this advice apply to all girls? What about shy serious cold kind of girls? There are some girls which are super open to serious deep conversations but its hard af to get them to be playful and do small talk. When i mean serious deep conversations i am not saying no humor or teasing at all. Just you guys talk about a specific topic rather than changing topics every 20 seconds with 0 meaning or substance like you do during small talk.

Bro speak to girls. You are not fucked at all! Just get rid of the neediness and low self-worth and you can do whatever.

I think shy girls still like sex and all these things. Maybe you are just unable to make them playful, or they just don't want anything.

[bejapuskas]

3 hours ago, Cykaaaa said:

I thought that the dating process could be skipped somehow.

It is not wise at all to skip dating, I mean, it is essentially learning about the other person. You don't want to just go into an unexplored territory. Doesn't seem like a good idea at all. 

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

It just sucks that if you re a deep kind of person who likes deep conversations rather than small talk teasing bullshit you' re kinda fucked regard dating.

To go deep you must start shallow.

You don't just whip your dick out at the coffee shop. You must ease your way into it gracefully. That is the art of game.

[Forestluv]

If you’ve already had some easy going dates and she is open to the two of you tripping together, I’d suggest something like cooking a meal together and seeing if it progresses sexually. Cooking and sharing a meal together in one of your homes is a much more intimate environment than chatting in a crowded coffee shop. 

Tripping during your first time alone together seems like way too big of a jump to me. 

[eggopm3]

11 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

Hehe I am getting the feel that our OP will be unable to follow any advice haha

no no this is all very appreciated. I need to bounce this stuff off of somebody! This is all good and worthwhile feedback. And like I said this may or may not even happen, no plans have been set in stone at all. all that has happened is that she told me (on more than one occasion so I know it wasn't a flippant suggestion) that she thinks we should take mushrooms together. then I've gone "hmmmmmmmm...????"

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your first dates must be light, playful, fun, and as low-investment as possible. A coffee.

We have already done a coffee date which went very well. and to be honest I would much rather continue to do stuff like that for a while before moving to the next level, I am definitely concerned about the possibility of fucking things up by moving way too quickly. 

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

By setting up a trip date, you're actually being needy as fuck. Why are you sharing such depth with some girl you haven't even slept with??? It makes no sense. Because you're needy, that's why. And she will smell it off you and it will creep her out. Save the tripping for after you slept with her 5 or 10 times.

I don't disagree with you here. I'd prefer to have sober experiences before getting more involved. but the girl is the one who suggested this not me. So the hypothetical situation could be that she insists on tripping with me and I turn her down. Perhaps this would disappoint her, but on the other hand perhaps this would deepen her respect for me? I don't know.

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The biggest way to turn a girl off is by being creepy and needy. And you're combining the two of them into the ultimate Incel combo.

I absolutely have made this mistake with previous girls in my life many years ago. Incel-type pathologies have ruined things for me in the past. However during that period of my life I was also overwhelmed with negative habits and low self-esteem. Since then I've spent several years working on improving myself, successfully eliminating the majority of my unhealthy habits and developing my confidence. I know I've made great strides in this department because my baseline level of happiness has risen enormously, and other people both friends and strangers seem to enjoy my company about 100 times more than they used to.

I dont think I've been coming across as needy and creepy. I think this is evidenced by the fact that her reactions to me are drastically different from the reactions of girls in the past. But I absolutely would like more evidence of this before pushing things further. But what if she's the one pushing me to go further?

4 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

There are some girls which are super open to serious deep conversations but its hard af to get them to be playful and do small talk.

In my case she seems capable and open to both. Our coffee date swung between me making her laugh about silly things, to her telling me about spiritual insights and weird stuff she's experienced on her trips, and then back to lighthearted stuff again. I largely let her drive the conversation and she seemed like she was eager to share the deeper side of herself with me and that she wanted to see if my views aligned with hers (which for the most part, they do). I wonder how much of that is because she knew that since I've done psychedelics I wouldn't judge her? Like I totally get the idea of starting with small talk and building up to deeper stuff over time, but most girls haven't smoked DMT before so at least in that sense she's not like "most girls" (insert "I'm not like other girls" meme here lol) 

1 minute ago, Forestluv said:

If you’ve already had some easy going dates and she is open to the two of you tripping together, I’d suggest something like cooking a meal together and seeing if it progresses sexually. Cooking and sharing a meal together in one of your homes is a much more intimate environment than chatting in a crowded coffee shop. 

I would really like this actually. My place isn't an option due to a lack of privacy, and I obviously can't insist on coming over to her place without being invited. But if she does continue to insist that we trip together it would have to be at her place, so that would necessitate her inviting me over at some point eventually. And maybe I could approach things from an angle of "I dont like to trip in unfamiliar places, and i'd like to get to know you better first, so let's do something else instead for now". or something like that.

[flume]

I’ve been in your girls position before so let me tell you this: If she suggested tripping, that at least entails that she’s really interested in you. You don’t just trip with anyone. Take it as a big sign that she wants to get to know you better. As far as implying sex: I think girls tend to think less about “sex or no sex” and more in terms of: I wanna go deeper and let’s see where we end up. Time to send some signals her way She’s made a big move with the suggestion, now don’t hold back by leaving everything up to her: Invite her over, cook her some dinner, etc. She’s gonna love that. As others suggested, don’t jump ahead too far. Just take the wheel and take one step after the other. 

Whatever you do, don’t talk about sex. Women are implicit creatures… We don’t need to talk about everything

In terms of her being so special, think about it like that: She’s special and unique to you but just because you love these explicit things you mentioned. She’s not special for everyone. In reverse, there aren’t gonna be many guys in her life either that she can talk to about this stuff, so you’re probably very special to her as well. So dare to be more confident and bold in your moves

If sex is gonna happen, so be it, but don’t plan on losing your virginity on psychedelics. Could be a weird reference point. (Or no reference point?)