Where does all the confusion stem from?

[Gesundheit]

I mean even within religion, it was supposed to be clear what God is, yet somehow there's always confusion.

Even Leo says that everything is God, yet we aren't in God consciousness.

So what is it, really? Is everything God without exception? Or is God consciousness the only one true God and everything else something else (illusion)?

How can non-duality be true if God consciousness is not always the case? Does this distinction make God an external entity?

[kbone]

The questions seem to be wrestling with the mind-made conceptions and conclusions about what God, consciousness, and non-duality are VERSUS what they are truly Realized to actually Be.

Anyone can read and think about them and just decide they are "truth", but that will not settle the division that still exists in one's mind... and subsequently still identifies with/as. The sum of parts will not realize Wholeness.

It is the questions that give rise to the search. They will linger on and on, sometimes with intensity and sometimes with brief and very revealing realizations.. That last step back, looking for  broader AND more in-depth look, is a doozy.

 

There is no "other".

Edited December 16, 2020 by kbone

[Someone here]

It's obvious. It's so obvious that you don't want to believe it. This is God. This is reality. This is truth. 

[Gesundheit]

There seems to be two versions of God;

1. God, the mundane, that we all know and experience, but no one cares for.
2. God, the supreme being, that mystics make their whole lives about and worship.

Which one is it?

[Someone here]

Mundane sure. You have zero clue where did this mundane come from and what is it. You are not seeing it for the supreme that it is because if you did that you will die. 

[Gesundheit]

@Someone here You're missing the point of the thread with your projections. I'm trying to get to the bottom of the confusion and understand how it comes up in the first place. After all, why would anyone prefer a limited identity over an unlimited one? And yes, I can agree with the content of what you're saying if you mean it figuratively.

[seeking_brilliance]

I'd start with limiting beliefs and go from there. 

[Someone here]

@Gesundheit no it seems there conflict of interests. I'm interested in truth. Direct truth. Like what is true? Stop fucking around what is true? Spot it find it goddammit its right here. 

You on the other side are interested in endless mind games and speculation. That's all cute but it won't lead you to truth. 

[kbone]

@Gesundheit

What Is sees these both as conceptual notions. Pointing attempts to arrest the mind, if not for just a glimpse of what IT IS, completely free of the mind's gravity.

To be clear, you are approaching this identified with the mind's constructs. The words used to point are flying by. The more you think, the more you will fail, but that is OK... such futility is required, apparently.

neti neti

 

[Gesundheit]

4 minutes ago, seeking_brilliance said:

I'd start with limiting beliefs and go from there.

This is interesting and I agree. Can you elaborate about that? Why do we limit ourselves with beliefs?

[caspex]

My theory is that your consciousness states are like a elastic band. When realizing and seeing God, they are expanded a lot. But due to habit of being into the *normal* state, they eventually come back together back to what it was. With enough expanding and contracting, they can loosen up to be in the God state naturally. When expanded, that rubber band knows it is God. When contracted, it doesn't, but it still is.

[kbone]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

This is interesting and I agree. Can you elaborate about that? Why do we limit ourselves with beliefs?

Yes, it is interesting why peeps believe. But, that's not a question about God, Truth, non-duality that you began with.

It's a question about why does conditioned thinking give rise to such apparent beliefs.

Why questions about the former are misconceived, while questions about the latter are about the apparent phenomenal world of the drama. The confusion you spoke of originally was mixing up the two. Are you confused?

[seeking_brilliance]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

This is interesting and I agree. Can you elaborate about that? Why do we limit ourselves with beliefs?

I think that's the point to find out ? I could say 'for fun' but that could be wrong in your experience. You'll have to work through them and answer it for yourself. 

Maybe start with - - - why do I believe that God consciousness is anything other than the current experience?  (like what are your misconceptions about God consciousness that keeps it as some separate phenomenon) 

[ajai]

Oh! Human accept that you don't know.

 

[xxxx]

10 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

God, the mundane, that we all know and experience, but no one cares for.

Just because most don't care about it, it doesn't become mundane, right? 

 

11 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

God, the supreme being, that mystics make their whole lives about and worship.

The transformation in consciousness that makes this mundane into inexplicable, jaw-dropping, incomprehensible beauty is what constitutes realizing the supremacy of God.

Let us take your hand, for example: Everyone has it, and it seems quite mundane - but if you begin to realize the beauty of it all, it will never be the same. The day we realize the extraordinary in what we perceive as ordinary, and knowing that all ordinary is extraordinary, there would be no confusion left. 

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

Why do we limit ourselves with beliefs?

This is what I think - it has to do with the nature of usage, that gives rise to this sense of othering. Take a blanket for example - it is very easy to put into the bracket of othering. You 'use' it, and it has no existence outside of you, it seems like. 'You' get to decide when and where you use 'it'. We usually extrapolate the same with the nature of reality, as well. Hence, we are all gullible to that sense of elevation and hierarchy in everyday life. Everyone struggles with this, I believe. To totally shun this would take some hardcore meditation, and other practices that I am presently not aware of.

[kbone]

@ajai

? Yes! Osho had a way of annoying the crap outta peeps!

Nice addition to the convo here.

[Guest SirVladimir]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

we aren't in God consciousness

Why are you pretending you're not?

Take this as an example:

19 minutes ago, xxxx said:

Let us take your hand, for example: Everyone has it, and it seems quite mundane - but if you begin to realize the beauty of it all, it will never be the same. The day we realize the extraordinary in what we perceive as ordinary, and knowing that all ordinary is extraordinary, there would be no confusion left. 

You are literally like a monkey sitting in the presence of this gargantuan glorious monolith called God that is too obvious and too magnificent to comprehend. The devil likes to hide in the ordinary. You are not a human. Every single moment is Infinity. You are looking at God right now.

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

So what is it, really? Is everything God without exception?

Yes

You don't need any other teaching nor any other teacher to discover it. 

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

How can non-duality be true if God consciousness is not always the case?

It is

This thread's gonna be a sounding cliché full of clichés - so make sure it counts. 

[ajai]

@kbone hehe!!

[Gesundheit]

Seems like the level of humility I'm embodying has somehow triggered the guru inside of most of you ?

I used the word mundane for lack of a better word. I mean even if I use another word like normal or ordinary you will reply similarly. Of course, your inner guru will get hung up on these words to deflect the inquiry, because you think you've got it all figured out and have no more questions. Yet, your inner guru is blinding you from seeing a more nuanced question.

If the mundane God is the same as the supreme God, then why are mystics so obsessed with the latter?

[SamueLSD]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

There seems to be two versions of God;

1. God, the mundane, that we all know and experience, but no one cares for.
2. God, the supreme being, that mystics make their whole lives about and worship.

Which one is it?

 Both.

Would you look at a tree, only notice one brown leaf out of the hundreds of green ones and say: "That leaf is mundane", without even acknowledging the tree itself? 

Or do you see it as just one tree?

The latter. 

Contemplate the connectedness of it all.