Shunyamurti... cult?... probs: Reviews

[yannick]

@Leo Gura Yeah one week there is nothing. When you come for a retreat like you did you don't see any of this stuff and you shouldn't expect that.  It happens in subtle ways and I'm not comparing their organisation to let's say Scientology obviously that's silly. As you know cults can be categorized in different gradations regarding their manipulative and destructive tendencies. Sat Yoga operates in my opinion somewhere on the edge but definetly on the destructive side.

Yeah they are nice people very nice people in fact and I consider many of them as friends. So in no way do I wanna judge them when I say they are sheep tbh I am one myself so..määähh but they are followers thats all and if you are not and don't submit to Shunya's rule you gonna be kicked out very quickly. A guy I know was living there for a couple of years and behaved a little out of line. He shared a tv show with somebody which contained some sex scenes. He was brought in front of the board (the members with the most to say, 6 of them I think) being accused of spreading porn in the community then put on probation time having to prove his loyalty and commitment to the Sangha after having dedicated 5+ years to their cause. Imagine how that would feel. That breaks your heart and I guess that's why they did it. To break him and to undermine his self esteem.

Regarding money. I talked to a women who was in the process of deciding to go live there and to build a house. Her husband has multiple businesses and a lot of money but didn't want to go sell them and live in Costa Rica. So Shunya tried to convince her to build a house and let him paid for it and her expenses. She had sightings to see were she could build her home. Those things are being kept secretive to most of the community and she was asked to tell nobody. The costs would have come down to this: 100 000$  for the ground on which she would build. For the house she had in mind 200 000$ plus a monthly contribution to the ashram of 1000$ not regarding fees for sessions as far as I remember. While in this process she was treated like royalty. After she made clear that she doesn't want to put her husband in this position, things changed being treated like regular folk stuff like having her own work desk removed from the office, etc.

[yannick]

@Leo Gura

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Although I should add, I see plenty of egoic projection in some of these critiques. Students often become disgruntled for whatever personal reasons and need someone to blame and they are too ignorant to understand the position of a deeply mystical and God-realized person.

Yes I see that too and to some degree I fall in that trap. But you also have to see what might have been done to those people. You know I heard that a lot of people in Costa Rica hate Shunya because he to some degree caused their families to break apart. But most of them don't have a very deep theoretical understanding of spirituality or even cult dynamics and their testimonials are actually not very informative and I'm mostly dissapointed when I read them. They might not be fully aware what is important to share and what is opinion/belief/hearsay. And they don't put mich effort in to it...

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My biggest critique of Sat Yoga is that I doubt there is a single person there who is woke other than Shunya. As you become his little sheep servant monkey -- you won't have the time to awaken. You'll be too busy pulling weeds from his garden.

Yeah nobody there is enlightened and also Shunya says that nobody is or has a high stage of developement. They teach modules categorizes in a Trivium and Quatrivium leant from anciet greek universities. A student usually goes through the trivium graduates and then learns the higher teachings in the Quatrivium. It was said in public by his wife that nobody there even graduated from the Trivium. Interestingly though I got access to recorded community meetings in which they would discuss topics related to changes in the community and so on. In one of them Shunya stated who the most developed Yogis are. By far he said Jagdeesh was the most developed one followed by his wife Marjiva Ma. Now what role do you think those two have. They are the couple who own the the running butterfly business and are the main money source having put the most money in the project.

 

[Leo Gura]

@yannick If the stories about how much money he extracts from you guys is true, that is indeed outrageous and a deal-breaker.

[One Day]

@Leo Gura

Shunyamurti states in his biography that he has done "deep and extensive entheogenic shamanic practice".

(https://www.satyoga.org/shunyamurti-biography/ )

Do you, as a no-joke psychonaut, think he has had deep trips like you? how many teachers actually do psychedelics?

Edited May 24, 2021 by One Day

[Rajneeshpuram]

On 19/12/2020 at 7:52 AM, Jodistrict said:

I have previously found negative stuff on the Internet (including those of this thread) for almost every “guru” out there.  I have decided not to repeat any of it and spread hearsay information that I have no idea whether it is true or not.   My opinion is that capitalism has distorted us all psychologically and turned everything and everyone in our sterile culture into a transaction.  There is a deficit of love in our modern, capitalistic world.  But one ounce of love will heal you more than reading 10,000 books.  It’s interesting that for every one person that followed Jesus, there were probably hundreds of people who passed him by and didn’t see anything special.  This seems to suggest that you have to be ready in order to have the eyes to find a  guide at your level.   If you follow Teal Swan then that is your level, because that is who you resonate with, and so forth.      

I actually like this video from Shunyamurti.  He explains how we are all traumatized and how trauma impedes spiritual awakening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6zh4t7KdxU

 
 

But is the self who is trauamtized. How can impede spiritual progress when the traumatized disapears?

[Bojan V]

@yannick Why would anyone dedicate 5+ years to their cause? I thought the only cause of someone who goes in ashram is transcendence and shadow work.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, One Day said:

Do you, as a no-joke psychonaut, think he has had deep trips like you?

Seems like it.

Regardless of these cult accusations Shunya is woke as fuck. That's what makes the stories so tradgic.

[kieranperez]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@yannick If the stories about how much money he extracts from you guys is true, that is indeed outrageous and a deal-breaker.

I can confirm the weird shady money tactics 

[Jodistrict]

6 hours ago, Rajneeshpuram said:

But is the self who is trauamtized. How can impede spiritual progress when the traumatized disapears?

Shinzen Young gives an explanation in his book:  “The Science of Enlightenment”, where he roughly says that the unconscious mind with its history and traumas is what separates our present consciousness from source.  To get from surface consciousness to source we travel through the unconscious.  The most direct path to source is a straight line.  But our traumas can make us go sideways, so that we may believe we have arrived at source but we are only going sideways in circles.  I refer you to Shinzen’s book for the correct explanation.

I recently had a profound mushroom journey, so my previous beliefs are all up for review.  The mushrooms took me directly to God consciousness without going into the past.
 

[One Day]

So if the stories about Shunya are true, we can conclude that a high degree of wokeness does not preclude extreme forms of ego still manifesting in the physical.

More research needs to be done on this. We can not just presume the stories to be true.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, One Day said:

So if the stories about Shunya are true, we can conclude that a high degree of wokeness does not preclude extreme forms of ego still manifesting in the physical.

It is not necessarily ego.

Sounds to me like he is extremely strict and demands his students obey his extreme spiritual practices. And then to support those extreme practices he needs money of course. This is not necessarily ego, it could just be his very high standards for how to do spiritual work. Obviously has some extreme ideas about society collapsing and so forth. If you honestly believed that society will collapse into nuclear war within the next 10 years, you would probably behave as he does. Although he's fooling himself if he thinks he'll be able to survive nuclear war in Costa Rica. His ashram only survives thanks to money pouring in from the outside world.

He's basically running a monastery over there. Monasteries are radical and extreme places. I can see why he would not put up with shit from normies. A Zen monastery will also be very strict and extreme. These kinds of places are only suitable for extreme, hardcore spiritual seekers. I think the problem is that his students don't realize what they got themselves into when joining. Living in an ashram is not suitable for 99% of people.

[Inliytened1]

@yannick very messed up man.  I read a few of the testimonials on the website.- the 2nd one was something..it seems like there is definitely mind control and manipulation going on there...and the dude seems like a wacked out narcissist lost in his own world.  Good job getting your ass out of there.

[Chi_]

On 5/24/2021 at 4:49 AM, Leo Gura said:

@yannick 

When I was there I definitely got strong group-think vibes. They worship Shunya way too much. But nothing I saw was a cult. But then again, my exposure to them was only 1 week long.

 

Have you also been to the Isha ashram in Tennessee? If so, I would love to hear your comparison of Shunyas ashram and Sadhgurus ashram (Isha Institute of Inner Sciences) in the US.

[Leo Gura]

34 minutes ago, Chi_ said:

Have you also been to the Isha ashram in Tennessee?

No

But I've been to a Sadhguru event and his members are total sheep. They are just zombies. They don't think about spirituality for themselves at all and they worship him. It's pretty stupid. After he's dead it's gonna turn into just another religion/cult.

Sadhguru does not teach his people to think critically, he just teaches them dogmatic techniques which they perform like monkeys.

[Preety_India]

Sadhguru is like a cult guy. Nobody challenges him.

 

 

[knakoo]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But I've been to a Sadhguru event and his members are total sheep. They are just zombies. They don't think about spirituality for themselves at all and they worship him. It's pretty stupid. After he's dead it's gonna turn into just another religion/cult.

Sadhguru does not teach his people to think critically, he just teaches them dogmatic techniques which they perform like monkeys.

Isn't that a bias of yours ? Is it really necessary to think deeply and critically about spirituality to wake up ? Not everyone has an overactive and sharp mind like yours.

Considering the more than 9 millions volunteers Sadhguru has in his organisation, he seems to have helped a lot of people become more selfless. 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, knakoo said:

Isn't that a bias of yours ? Is it really necessary to think deeply and critically about spirituality to wake up ? Not everyone has an overactive and sharp mind like yours.

Considering the more than 9 millions volunteers Sadhguru has in his organisation, he seems to have helped a lot of people become more selfless. 

I don't dispute he helped many people.

But when you practice spirituality like a monkey, there will be consequences. Most of Sadhguru's followers do not even know what enlightenment is conceptually, nevermind achieving it.

It's yet another religion with all the classic problems.

What do you think will become of that organization in 30 years after he dies? What horrors will it commit?

[knakoo]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't dispute he helped many people.

But when you practice spirituality like a monkey, there will be consequences. Most of Sadhguru's followers do not even know what enlightenment is conceptually, nevermind achieving it.

Well is it necessary or even helpful to know about enlightenment conceptually to wake up ? 

Also strong devotion to your guru is part of the culture in India and it seems to work pretty well.

[EddieEddie1995]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

It's yet another religion

@Leo Gura

My father would never ever get into spirituality (he labled himself a materialist) if there wasn't Sadgurus simplistic system of spirituality. Simplicity/Ignorance is the first step. The next step is Actualized.org (complexity-integrity). 

If I plan to go mainstream with spirituality I will  talk the way Sadguri talks(I live in blue country). And then I will attract another group of serious spiritual seekers and teach the way you teach. ?

 

There are consciouss sheeps and unconscious sheeps (holons) ?

 

@Scholar Thanks for the ideas of fear! I have definitely fallen in those traps. I have very sneaky narcissistic tendencies. It is quite AMAZING! 

 

 

 

 

[Chi_]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No

But I've been to a Sadhguru event and his members are total sheep. They are just zombies. They don't think about spirituality for themselves at all and they worship him. It's pretty stupid. After he's dead it's gonna turn into just another religion/cult.

Sadhguru does not teach his people to think critically, he just teaches them dogmatic techniques which they perform like monkeys.

Yeah, I know what you mean, I was at his ashram for 6 months in India.

He says right now the whole ashram is intentionally kept in a chaotic atmosphere for people to keep seeking but after he dies there will be strict regulations and protocol to avoid it going into havoc like you predicted. 

Also he says that he will stay back in his "Subtle Body" for 80 more years after he dies in order to take care of certain stuff. If that's true, maybe he won't allow it to turn into a Religion for sometime at least.

 

(All of that was from his book "More than a Life" for anyone interested)

Edited May 25, 2021 by Chi_