Shunyamurti... cult?... probs: Reviews

[Gesundheit]

@Fadl But God healed me and removed my suffering. I owe that to the teachers who taught me about God. If it wasn't for them, I may have still been suffering till this day.

[Fadl]

14 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

@Fadl But God healed me and removed my suffering. I owe that to the teachers who taught me about God. If it wasn't for them, I may have still been suffering till this day.

You are talking about your ego, and yeah you can fix your ego by paying money to someone to get an advice, and you will keep doing that because it is an endless circle.

To reach the absolute Truth you only need your will. 

[Yann]

On 12/19/2020 at 7:52 AM, Jodistrict said:

I actually like this video from Shunyamurti.  He explains how we are all traumatized and how trauma impedes spiritual awakening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6zh4t7KdxU

 
 

The material in that video is basically a synopsis of the book "Healing Developmental Trauma" by Laurence Heller with some slight modifications and additions (specifically meaning and consciousness as core needs).

Curiously he omits the healing part...

[Scholar]

Is it not amazing how sneaky fear truly is? It will find it's way into the mind of even the most conscious individuals. In the conscious mind, fear will morph into confidence and certainty, so subtly, so invisibly, that the conscious mind will not even have noticed it happen at all. Fear is like a great chameleon. If you do not come to respect fear, you shall be it's slave. Your mind shall close and your eyes blinded with visions which you will confuse for reality.

 

Shunyamurti is an excellent fascilitator of this chameleon of fear. He himself has become a vassal of that chameleon. Can you see how powerful this chameleon is? Can you see it's ingenious survival tactics? It truly is awe-inspiring. A foe so sophisticated that once you underestimate, once you believe to have defeated, will strike you so fast that you will not ever know that it has injected it's poison into your flesh.

 

Ironically, the more conscious a person becomes, the harder it has to look out for fear, because the more sophisticated methodes fear will develop to remain alive. The fear within a conscious person is a far greater opponent than the fear of the unconscious person. The fear in a unconscious person is a lion, the fear in the conscious person is a fog. No sword can harm it, no shield can protect you from it's invasion.

If this is not understood, the conscious person will fall pray to the fog just as much as the unconscious person falls pray to the lion.

 

 

If you believe to have freed yourself from fear, always, always, always assume that fear has shifted into a form you have not yet learned to recognize. This shall be true until your mind has dissolved completely and your body is being eaten by maggots.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Scholar

[Shunyata]

@Scholar very smart tittle-tattles of a chucklehead. don't pretend as though Shunyamurti is the only one facilitating fear. fear is your natural state in ego consciousness. God doesn't need us, we are the ones who need God. 

[Leo Gura]

On 12/24/2020 at 10:26 AM, Scholar said:

Is it not amazing how sneaky fear truly is? It will find it's way into the mind of even the most conscious individuals. In the conscious mind, fear will morph into confidence and certainty, so subtly, so invisibly, that the conscious mind will not even have noticed it happen at all. Fear is like a great chameleon. If you do not come to respect fear, you shall be it's slave. Your mind shall close and your eyes blinded with visions which you will confuse for reality.

 

Shunyamurti is an excellent fascilitator of this chameleon of fear. He himself has become a vassal of that chameleon. Can you see how powerful this chameleon is? Can you see it's ingenious survival tactics? It truly is awe-inspiring. A foe so sophisticated that once you underestimate, once you believe to have defeated, will strike you so fast that you will not ever know that it has injected it's poison into your flesh.

 

Ironically, the more conscious a person becomes, the harder it has to look out for fear, because the more sophisticated methodes fear will develop to remain alive. The fear within a conscious person is a far greater opponent than the fear of the unconscious person. The fear in a unconscious person is a lion, the fear in the conscious person is a fog. No sword can harm it, no shield can protect you from it's invasion.

If this is not understood, the conscious person will fall pray to the fog just as much as the unconscious person falls pray to the lion.

 

 

If you believe to have freed yourself from fear, always, always, always assume that fear has shifted into a form you have not yet learned to recognize. This shall be true until your mind has dissolved completely and your body is being eaten by maggots.

Be careful not to project fear onto him.

I don't see any fear in him from what I have seen. I disagree with his Kali Yuga teachings, but they are not fear based.

It it not fear to say the world is ending if it actually is.

[Tim R]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It it not fear to say the world is ending if it actually is.

And if the world isn't actually ending?

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Be careful not to project fear onto him.

I don't see any fear in him from what I have seen. I disagree with his Kali Yuga teachings, but they are not fear based.

It it not fear to say the world is ending if it actually is.

I see false confidence, which to me is fear.

 

There is a reason why this person is not just saying "The world will end", but rather is using specific language to describe what will happen. I remember he was talking about suffering on an unimaginable scale, so that this year will seem like paradise.

This kind of mentality to me is fear based. It needs comparisons, exaggerations, projections, certainty of the future. This is not an obvious, gross form of fear, but a subtle fear. But I also see fear in the way he speaks in general, his facial expressions and so forth. His heart and mind is not fully open.

 

With such people, this can be made obvious very quickly by direct confrontation. If you were to confront Shunya as he was teaching, about the validity of what he is saying, in a non-submissive manner, I think there would be a tendency for him to react in an emotional way, revealing his egoic attachments. This is what happens to Sadhguru sometimes aswell.

 

It is very easy to appear to be free of fear when you are the one who is teaching others, when there is no resistence, when your ego is not on the line. It is like claiming you are the best MMA fighter in the world without ever getting into the cage. Or that you are free of suffering whilst your life is comfortable and not under threat.

 

 

It is not fear to say anything, but it is fear that will make you more attracted to one set of belief over another, or that will make you focus on one belief over another. Or that will make you confuse a belief and assumption for reality.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Scholar

[How to be wise]

1 hour ago, Tim R said:

And if the world isn't actually ending?

It will end one day, lol.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Tim R said:

And if the world isn't actually ending?

Then it could be fear, or it could just be a mistake.

[mandyjw]

It's popular to tell people the world is ending in religious groups. My dad went to a Christian highschool and was told the rapture was coming any day, so instead of doing his schoolwork he put on a suit and went door to door trying to save people in time. He bought it and honestly didn't think to plan out his life outside of religion.

I think it's more like Adyanshanti's book title "The End of Your World" and is a personal revelation.  The world you are projecting is the only one that exists and the only one you should be concerned with. 

[Jodistrict]

The below video is a short summary of what Shunyamurti is actually saying about the state of the world.  

He talks about in order to get from our present low level to a higher level of consciousness, the world has to first go through a stage of chaos.   The present order has to be disrupted in order to get to the next higher order.

 

[Leo Gura]

Obviously there will be chaos to reach a higher level of development and consciousness.

No one is disputing that.

The problem is when you drill it into your students' minds that civilization is collapsing. Civilization is not collapsing, it's just evolving.

What he says in the above video is exactly correct. The only thing is, there will not be any mass awakening soon. 100 years from now people will still largely be as unconscious and undeveloped as they are today. Our situation is far deeper than some guru's YT videos can fix in one generation. It will take 100s of years to move a significant number of people up to the levels of consciousness he is talking about. It will not happen in your childrens' lifetime.

[knakoo]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Obviously there will be chaos to reach a higher level of development and consciousness.

No one is disputing that.

The problem is when you drill it into your students' minds that civilization is collapsing. Civilization is not collapsing, it's just evolving.

What he says in the above video is exactly correct. The only thing is, there will not be any mass awakening soon. 100 years from now people will still largely be as unconscious and undeveloped as they are today. Our situation is far deeper than some guru's YT videos can fix in one generation. It will take 100s of years to move a significant number of people up to the levels of consciousness he is talking about. It will not happen in your childrens' lifetime.

Many spiritual teachers talk about a mass awakening happening right now that will accelerate in the decade to come. Some say it comes in part from a shift in energies on the planet. How can you be sure that a mass awakening will take so long to happen ? Maybe in 10-20 years the level of consciousness of the average people will be vastly higher.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, knakoo said:

Many spiritual teachers talk about a mass awakening happening right now that will accelerate in the decade to come. Some say it comes in part from a shift in energies on the planet. How can you be sure that a mass awakening will take so long to happen ? Maybe in 10-20 years the level of consciousness of the average people will be vastly higher.

This is laughable.

Just look at how alseep people are. There will be no mass awakening.

Teachers say that because it creates a nice narrative for their students to buy into to make themselves feel important.

You sure feel important when you visit Shunya's ashram and pretend like you are saving the world by meditating. But you are not saving anyone but yourself.

The world has been in chaos for 10,000 years and that's not about to change. There is nothing special about today's chaos.

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura But don’t you think that a chain reaction has begun. The number of people interested in spirituality is growing very fast. Sooner or later it will get to the mainstream.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura But don’t you think that a chain reaction has begun. The number of people interested in spirituality is growing very fast. Sooner or later it will get to the mainstream.

As it goes mainstream it will turn into stupidity and evil. This has all happened before.

The only thing that will lead to a mass awakening is a techological breakthrough more radical than 5-MeO-DMT. Some scientific way to change our DNA or brains to make people more conscious by default. It will not happen through meditation or yoga or education alone.

[Value]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

As it goes mainstream it will turn into stupidity and evil. This has all happened before.

The only thing that will lead to a mass awakening is a techological breakthrough more radical than 5-MeO-DMT. Some scientific way to change our DNA or brains to make people more conscious by default. It will not happen through meditation or yoga or education alone.

Gene editing will change everything. I wonder what humanity will be like in 200 years.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Value

[Value]

36 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

 

I love this clip. Yeah I would guess we start off misusing gene editing for egoic purposes.

[Jodistrict]

The problem is that technology increases exponentially, thus delivering more and more power to low consciousness leaders and elites.  It is like giving a jet airplane to a 7 year old boy.  So we don’t have time.  The damage created every time an immature mind applies advanced power multiplies.   Even a nuclear war could happen at any time.   So the question is why can’t spirituality increase exponentially too?  Can the increase of aware people create a network effect increasing the spread of awareness? Why does spiritual awakening have to be linear?   Also, technology could influence spirituality.  If an effective psychotherapy develops that can reliably heal trauma, perhaps with the aid of psychedelics, that could accelerate spiritual awakening.