Is it selfish not to take the covid vaccine?

[DLH]

You create your own reality!

If you focus and believe in disease and illness, then that will become part of your reality.  Disease and illness will become a fixture of your limited outer Ego consciousness

If you focus and believe in health, you will create health in your personal Earthly reality.

This is where shadow work, meditation and learning to observe your thoughts, ideas, desires, imaginations, beliefs, feelings and emotions come into play.  If your thoughts, beliefs and emotions are more focused on disease and illness, you will automatically bring more of those patterns towards your Ego conscious Self.  If you focus more of your attention on Health, your “Inner Body Ego or Subconsciousness”, which controls your physical health, will automatically focus more on maintaining a state of health.  

It now becomes a law of averages, if you focus and believe 60% of the time on disease and illnesses, and only 40% on health, guess who wins?  If you focus and believe 80% on health and only vaguely buy into the thoughts, ideas, images, beliefs, feelings and emotions of disease and illness, guess what the odds are for maintain good health and not contracting a virus or being adversely affected by a virus?

Having said that, this is where the rubber hits the road, this where spirituality, consciousness, mastering your thoughts, ideas, beliefs, emotions and feelings separates the people that walk there talk, or those that just talk there talk!

As far as this debate goes; should I take it, or should I Not take it? 

It’s time for you to seriously take the time to truthfully assess and measure where you hold your energy, consciousness, thoughts, ideas, images, beliefs and emotions.  Only you know the answer to this debate. Stop looking outside of yourself to find the answer.

From a Meta perspective, this is all just a dream experience.  You create your own reality as a separate personality and as a collective. The more Love and Light you focus on, the more the collective will become Love and Light.  The more fear you focus on, the more the collective will become fear.

Just sharing a few thoughts and beliefs!

Stay safe…

[Consept]

4 hours ago, Persipnei said:

I don't want to justify. Was just saying my 2 cents on the topic. I decided for myself I won't take it mostly because there is such a big pressure coming from our "leaders". I am aware that my decision is based on certain information, but so is the decision of the people who want to take it. One is not more valuable or true than the other. I watched my mind, I'd appreciate if you watched yours too. Most people have been brainwashed by media in the last 9 months with the "stay safe", "all together against covid", and other slogans.

Other years there is the seasonal flu who makes about the same amount of victims. There are diseases and people die. I didn't say their lives are not important, but I do think humanity has a very unhealthy way of looking at death and we should realize that this incarnation is mortal. I actually had repiratory problems when I was young, so I am at risk if I get it, but I'm willing to take the risk. If it is my time, I will look death in the eyes, if it is not, I'll be stronger after I get sick. I definately prefer to die from a disease than get sick from a vaccine.

To be honest ive seen more fear and scare mongering from people who believe in conspiracies (not saying you do), and people against measures to curb the disease than i have with people that consume mainstream media, most of them seem to just get on with it and follow the measures without making a big fuss, i dont think theyre doing it because they fear they will die. As i said most likely vulnerable people will fear it because there is around a 7% chance theyll die if they catch it so i dont think its an irrational fear.

But anyway let me ask a question, lets say you go to your doctor and after tests he informs you that you have cancer, theres some chance that you may die although he doesnt know exactly, it may also make you sick and affect your life dramatically. He says good news though we have an experimental drug that has been developed this year and has passed all required tests and has an efficacy rate of 95% so more than likely if you take this drug youll be completely cured, its so far been tested on 100,000 people without any serious issues unless youre allergic to it in which case the effects are still minimal and very few people are allergic, all the best scientists and medical professionals in the world have been working on it and approve it. Would you take this medication?

 

 

[Consept]

3 hours ago, DLH said:

You create your own reality!

If you focus and believe in disease and illness, then that will become part of your reality.  Disease and illness will become a fixture of your limited outer Ego consciousness

If you focus and believe in health, you will create health in your personal Earthly reality.

This is where shadow work, meditation and learning to observe your thoughts, ideas, desires, imaginations, beliefs, feelings and emotions come into play.  If your thoughts, beliefs and emotions are more focused on disease and illness, you will automatically bring more of those patterns towards your Ego conscious Self.  If you focus more of your attention on Health, your “Inner Body Ego or Subconsciousness”, which controls your physical health, will automatically focus more on maintaining a state of health.  

It now becomes a law of averages, if you focus and believe 60% of the time on disease and illnesses, and only 40% on health, guess who wins?  If you focus and believe 80% on health and only vaguely buy into the thoughts, ideas, images, beliefs, feelings and emotions of disease and illness, guess what the odds are for maintain good health and not contracting a virus or being adversely affected by a virus?

Having said that, this is where the rubber hits the road, this where spirituality, consciousness, mastering your thoughts, ideas, beliefs, emotions and feelings separates the people that walk there talk, or those that just talk there talk!

As far as this debate goes; should I take it, or should I Not take it? 

It’s time for you to seriously take the time to truthfully assess and measure where you hold your energy, consciousness, thoughts, ideas, images, beliefs and emotions.  Only you know the answer to this debate. Stop looking outside of yourself to find the answer.

From a Meta perspective, this is all just a dream experience.  You create your own reality as a separate personality and as a collective. The more Love and Light you focus on, the more the collective will become Love and Light.  The more fear you focus on, the more the collective will become fear.

Just sharing a few thoughts and beliefs!

Stay safe…

This is cool but theres loads of people who share love and light in poverty stricken regions of the world but they still get sever diseases, i dont think the 20k or so that died from ebola were all negative people, in fact a lot of Africans are extremely positive. What youre saying is somewhat true in that if you live healthily and joyfully probably your immune system and body will be in better condition but its not a super power you can still get ill, i see this ideology a lot in new age circles and from a meta non-dual perspective it doesnt really hold much water. 

Please also note i dont hold any fear in regard to covid and im not looking for an answer on whether i should take it or not, i will most likely take it. I was aiming the piece and those that have not questioned why they dont want to take it and wanted to raise conversation around that topic. 

[Persipnei]

@Consept

This might seem very weird, but no, I don't think I'd take it. I *might* if my son would still be too young to live without his dad, but that's the only reason I could think off.

[Consept]

4 minutes ago, Persipnei said:

@Consept

This might seem very weird, but no, I don't think I'd take it. I *might* if my son would still be too young to live without his dad, but that's the only reason I could think off.

Interesting, so you would rather possibly die than trust modern medicine? OK what if it was your son who was in that unfortunate position and you had to make a choice for him, assuming hes not at an age where can consent either way, would you not let him take the new medicine with a good chance that if he didnt he might die?

Separate, what if an illness was making your life hell, you couldnt go out, you felt like shit all the time, would you take the medicine yourself? 

[Forestluv]

12 hours ago, Persipnei said:

I see a lot of people in this thread who are really certain that vaccines are good for mankind. I'm not anti-vaxxer, but I won't pollute my body for a disease that my body can overcome naturally.

Individual interests are one factor, yet individual and societies are linked. No individual is in their own bubble completely separate from the society the live.

For example, some Los Angeles hospitals are now at fully capacity. There are no beds left. That affects every individual in the community. Any individual that gets sick and needs a bed is screwed. People that get into accidents, strokes, heart attacks, cancer etc. The city can no longer provide health care for the community because they are overwhelmed with covid patients. That impacts every single individual in the community. Communities are individuals linked together.

Imagine one of your family members had a sudden illness - a car accident or heart attack. And there were no hospital beds available. 

[Roy]

Contemplate and appreciate this for a moment;

80 years ago our grandparents were forced to drop their entire lives to go overseas and fight in a war and probably die horrifically for people they've never met, and they barely complained.

The government now is simply asking people to wear a cloth mask and to take a flu shot so millions don't needlessly die, yet people are whining grotesquely that they are being crushed under an authoritarian boot.

Think about the absurdity of the selfishness going on here. We truly are some spoiled brat generations.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Roy

[Persipnei]

I am really astonished by the energy you guys put up to convince me. Wasn't expecting this on a forum that is about self-actualization.

The media tells us that the hospitals are full, but every single doctor and nurse I know tell me something is very fishy (Belgium). They can stay at home, more than ever, and when they work, they have nothing to do since there are almost no patients.

Yes, they are just asking us to take it, but they are using their propaganda machine to force you, because people who don't take it are marginalized. I realize that not taking the vaccine means I will never again be able to go to a festival, take a plane, and soon won't even be allowed to go to the store. In essence it will be: take it or leave society. Well... I was ready for that second part long ago.

You ask me if I rather die than take the vaccine. Yes I do. Because taking it is acknowledging that they can decide for me, and I am just starting to be myself thanks to self-development. Yes, I prefer to die if the other choice is to live like a slave.

[Persipnei]

10 hours ago, Roy said:

80 years ago our grandparents were forced to drop their entire lives to go overseas and fight in a war and probably die horrifically for people they've never met, and they barely complained.

But even when forced, you have the option to not listen. My grandfather understood the political situation in 1940 and deserted as soon as he was called to serve. He was killed for it. I have my deepest respect for him, that he gave up his life because of his ideals. My father was 2 years old by the way. Propaganda makes people do inhuman things and we clearly haven't learned since then, because the same thing is happening over and over again.

[Corpus]

On 15/12/2020 at 9:02 PM, Leo Gura said:

 

Every drug has some % of side-effects. The difference is, no drug other than a vaccine is mandated for 100s of millions of people by the government. 

Some nations' governments mandate fluoridation of the water; other nations mandate fortifying certain food staples/ ingredients with folic acid. 

[Consept]

1 hour ago, Persipnei said:

But even when forced, you have the option to not listen. My grandfather understood the political situation in 1940 and deserted as soon as he was called to serve. He was killed for it. I have my deepest respect for him, that he gave up his life because of his ideals. My father was 2 years old by the way. Propaganda makes people do inhuman things and we clearly haven't learned since then, because the same thing is happening over and over again.

Your issue seems to be more with being forced or pressured in anyway to do something that youre not 100% sure about or dont agree with, as you believe this compromises your freedom. Ultimately you are allowed to say no to the vaccine, i wasnt saying anyone should be forced, i was just saying objectively speaking it is a selfish act, as would be deserting when your country is being invaded (im not saying this is the case with your grand-father, i dont know the circumstances).  

In both instances the scale is seemingly quite big, so lets take it down. Say its just you and me getting a beer or something, 2 guys approach us and it seems like theyre going to attack us, you say to me 'i think we're gonna have to fight here', i say 'I dont want to fight and i dont like the idea of you pressuring me to fight, even if you did fight by yourself, youll probably be ok anyway'. Now if you pressure me to fight, i can say 'i just dont believe in violence i dont think it will help, in fact im going to go', leaving you to fight and giving a greater chance that youll get hurt. Within your logic im 100% right to do this and in a way and from a certain perspective i am right because im not risking my survival, however im making your survival doubly risky and in that way its undoubtedly a selfish act, you would definitely see it like that if you were in that circumstance. 

 

[Persipnei]

@Consept Off course you are 100% in your right to leave me in that case. I wouldn't even think you are selfish, you are just doing what you think is best in that situation. Me deciding how you should act would be the real selfish act here.

[Consept]

2 hours ago, Persipnei said:

@Consept Off course you are 100% in your right to leave me in that case. I wouldn't even think you are selfish, you are just doing what you think is best in that situation. Me deciding how you should act would be the real selfish act here.

Interesting perspective, so you see being selfish as having expectations on anothers behavior, of course if the pressure wasnt there in the example i gave, i would still say that its a selfish act in running away in that you are thinking of yourself rather than another and your action can in fact make anothers life harder, the pressure part maybe considered selfish but it doesnt then validate the running away action as not selfish, but i guess youre right thats just a definition of being selfish.

Apart from pressuring someone to do something, what would you say is a general definition of a selfish action?

Hope you dont mind the questions, im really interested in this perspective 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Consept

[Rajneeshpuram]

On 16/12/2020 at 11:06 AM, Consept said:

Youre right it is human nature, but egocentric is a lower level of consciousness, there will be times when it is appropriate to drop down to this level when your survival is really under threat. What is happening here is survival is under threat for a lot of people 1.6 million so far, but fear of, as you say an unknown in which after multiple tests no one has died and all the scientists and experts say that it wont kill anyone, has overided peoples ability to weigh things up accurately and led to people dropping to egocentrism. Same thing happened with people panic buying at the start of the pandemic, there was plenty of food for everyone but fear of the unknwon took them deep into egocentric behavior 

Would you take the risk of geting a ictus, heart attack or other serious  side effect, to avoid spreading a disease that has a deathrate of 0.1%?

If you say yes then you are a martyr, you shoud be in the third world giving your life to others.

[Consept]

31 minutes ago, Rajneeshpuram said:

Would you take the risk of geting a ictus, heart attack or other serious  side effect, to avoid spreading a disease that has a deathrate of 0.1%?

If you say yes then you are a martyr, you shoud be in the third world giving your life to others.

If i thought that was a serious possibility then of course i wouldnt, but you would have to prove to me that that is the case. There have been no deaths from all the tests so far and all the work thats been done doesnt lead me to believe that would be the case. 

So with that in mind, if its not really provable that i would get the side effects you speak of but it is provable that 0.1% people in the world will die according to your number thats one in a thousand which works out at 7 million people worldwide, 1.6 million have already died plus we dont know side effects and long term effects for those who have contracted it. So if i was to weigh up those two things i would say the disease is worse, unless you can somehow prove the vaccine is worse 

[eggopm3]

I was talking to a co-worker yesterday and she said that even though she is an immigrant who is devastated that she isnt allowed to travel to see her family overseas she refuses to get the vaccine because a) she "knows" they cause autism b) it will harm her unborn baby (even though she isn't even pregnant yet) and c) because she is healthy and can fight the virus and the government should be telling people just to be healthy instead.

Man, getting society over this shit is going to be an uphill battle.

[Rajneeshpuram]

1 hour ago, eggopm3 said:

I was talking to a co-worker yesterday and she said that even though she is an immigrant who is devastated that she isnt allowed to travel to see her family overseas she refuses to get the vaccine because a) she "knows" they cause autism b) it will harm her unborn baby (even though she isn't even pregnant yet) and c) because she is healthy and can fight the virus and the government should be telling people just to be healthy instead.

Man, getting society over this shit is going to be an uphill battle.

The WHO says that women that are planning to be pregnant or are pregnant shouldnt take the vaccine, because hasnt been tested in pregnant people, and the possible efects in fetus are unknown.

[Persipnei]

20 hours ago, Consept said:

Interesting perspective, so you see being selfish as having expectations on anothers behavior, of course if the pressure wasnt there in the example i gave, i would still say that its a selfish act in running away in that you are thinking of yourself rather than another and your action can in fact make anothers life harder, the pressure part maybe considered selfish but it doesnt then validate the running away action as not selfish, but i guess youre right thats just a definition of being selfish.

Apart from pressuring someone to do something, what would you say is a general definition of a selfish action?

Hope you dont mind the questions, im really interested in this perspective 

Before we continue this, I'd like you to know where I am coming from. I know a lot of people have had a free upbringing, had a good base (not too much trauma) as a kid and have a lot of self esteem. They mostly have to reign in their ego, to include others.

I was physically and mentally broken as a kid and am still recovering, but the first part of my journey was creating self esteem. I also have to reign in my ego, but my side of the coin is learning to show I'm here and I am worth something. Most of my life I did EVERYTHING for others, I can honestly say, for a long time, I had no own thoughts, will, perception than the ones that had literally been punched into me.

I am certain that the abuse that was brought on me, was 100% fueled by love from his side. In his eyes, it was not selfish to punch me into his world view, because for him he was doing something selfless (helping me find the right way). This whole propaganda/"not taking the vaccine is selfish" thing feels the same: people who are sure about their "truth" push it on the others, feeling selfless by doing it, but actually being completely selfish since it only includes like minded people.

I can't count the times in my life I have stayed silence when I should have said something. The reason for not speaking was because I was afraid of hurting the other, but now I realized, if I had said what I had to say and had hurt the other, I would've given them a wonderful lesson.

So... my definition... I would say an action itself is not inherently selfish or selfless. The same action with different intention gives a different result. To go meta: not doing your "Dharma" is selfish.

[Consept]

1 hour ago, Persipnei said:

Before we continue this, I'd like you to know where I am coming from. I know a lot of people have had a free upbringing, had a good base (not too much trauma) as a kid and have a lot of self esteem. They mostly have to reign in their ego, to include others.

I was physically and mentally broken as a kid and am still recovering, but the first part of my journey was creating self esteem. I also have to reign in my ego, but my side of the coin is learning to show I'm here and I am worth something. Most of my life I did EVERYTHING for others, I can honestly say, for a long time, I had no own thoughts, will, perception than the ones that had literally been punched into me.

I am certain that the abuse that was brought on me, was 100% fueled by love from his side. In his eyes, it was not selfish to punch me into his world view, because for him he was doing something selfless (helping me find the right way). This whole propaganda/"not taking the vaccine is selfish" thing feels the same: people who are sure about their "truth" push it on the others, feeling selfless by doing it, but actually being completely selfish since it only includes like minded people.

I can't count the times in my life I have stayed silence when I should have said something. The reason for not speaking was because I was afraid of hurting the other, but now I realized, if I had said what I had to say and had hurt the other, I would've given them a wonderful lesson.

So... my definition... I would say an action itself is not inherently selfish or selfless. The same action with different intention gives a different result. To go meta: not doing your "Dharma" is selfish.

Thank you for being so open, i really appreciate it. I can also somewhat relate to you in terms of having ways of thinking pushed on me, maybe not literally punched in to me but that idea of having to think or be a certain way to be accepted is definitely something i have experienced and still effects my psyche to this day. 

OK so i agree to some extent that the true intention behind the action could be selfless but come across selfish, but the issue with that is that the mind is very tricky, most of the time no one actually thinks theyre doing a selfish action, because doing selfish things can almost get you exiled out of your community or society (this could come from stage purple tribal development when survival was based on doing things only for the group), the mind has to defend against seeming to be egocentric, the mind can then come up with whatever story. You can see this a lot in kids, if theyre told to share with a younger sibling they might come up with an elaborate story about how that younger sibling didnt share with them one time and so justify their position of not wanting to share, the truth is they were looking for a reason not to because it benefits them not to, but they cant just say i dont want to share. So in terms of working out your own intentions it will take a lot of witnessing of the mind to get to the truth, it is important to be aware if your action is egocentric and from that awareness you can build to higher possibly worldcentric perspectives.

I myself eat meat and im aware that it is a selfish act on my part, my awareness of this has led me to eat less meat, the alternative would be to justify my position by arguing something like animals dont have legitimate feelings or they dont feel pain in the same way or some other justification. If i wasnt conscious of this it wouldnt make it less selfish because im not aware and see my justifications as true. 

Again i understand your position that you dont want things pushed on you, i appreciate it is almost like an invasion of your will and i think its a lazy way of debating, having to resort to emotionality and making the person feel guilty, anyone can do that but doesnt help you get to the truth of the subject. So in regards to vaccine safety, really if youre going to make a stand and say 'im definitely not taking this' you yourself would have to thoroughly research vaccines, the history of them how the work and have a genuinely open mind. Because of your developmental experiences you could overly resistant to doing what someone tells you and that can get your guard up, notice that bias and do research as open minded as possible, ultimately it is your choice, so no one is forcing you to do anything, but i think it would be imperative on you, if you do care about other human beings, to fully understand and weigh up what would equal a better outcome for all.  

 

[Persipnei]

15 minutes ago, Consept said:

1) Thank you for being so open, i really appreciate it. I can also somewhat relate to you in terms of having ways of thinking pushed on me, maybe not literally punched in to me but that idea of having to think or be a certain way to be accepted is definitely something i have experienced and still effects my psyche to this day. 

2) OK so i agree to some extent that the true intention behind the action could be selfless but come across selfish, but the issue with that is that the mind is very tricky, most of the time no one actually thinks theyre doing a selfish action, because doing selfish things can almost get you exiled out of your community or society (this could come from stage purple tribal development when survival was based on doing things only for the group), the mind has to defend against seeming to be egocentric, the mind can then come up with whatever story. You can see this a lot in kids, if theyre told to share with a younger sibling they might come up with an elaborate story about how that younger sibling didnt share with them one time and so justify their position of not wanting to share, the truth is they were looking for a reason not to because it benefits them not to, but they cant just say i dont want to share. So in terms of working out your own intentions it will take a lot of witnessing of the mind to get to the truth, it is important to be aware if your action is egocentric and from that awareness you can build to higher possibly worldcentric perspectives.

3) I myself eat meat and im aware that it is a selfish act on my part, my awareness of this has led me to eat less meat, the alternative would be to justify my position by arguing something like animals dont have legitimate feelings or they dont feel pain in the same way or some other justification. If i wasnt conscious of this it wouldnt make it less selfish because im not aware and see my justifications as true. 

4) Again i understand your position that you dont want things pushed on you, i appreciate it is almost like an invasion of your will and i think its a lazy way of debating, having to resort to emotionality and making the person feel guilty, anyone can do that but doesnt help you get to the truth of the subject. So in regards to vaccine safety, really if youre going to make a stand and say 'im definitely not taking this' you yourself would have to thoroughly research vaccines, the history of them how the work and have a genuinely open mind. Because of your developmental experiences you could overly resistant to doing what someone tells you and that can get your guard up, notice that bias and do research as open minded as possible, ultimately it is your choice, so no one is forcing you to do anything, but i think it would be imperative on you, if you do care about other human beings, to fully understand and weigh up what would equal a better outcome for all.  

 

1) You are very welcome. In a way, expressing this is part of my healing process, so thank you for reading it!

2) I completely agree

3) I'd argue that as long as there was nothing in your life that triggered your feelings about meat, it was not a selfish act. The more and more you realize what your relationship with meat is, the more eating it CAN be a selfish act, but doesn't have to be. I went from 7 days meat a week to 0 days a week to 2 days a week. My body has (currently) need for that little bit of extra proteines and not giving it to my body would be a form of selfishness because the idea would be more important than my body (which is my temple and my Dharma to keep it healthy).

4) I have put a lot of time in reading about the topic since March, from official sources to conspiracy sources. I've put Pasteurs theory next to Antoine Bechamp's, learned about the difference between virusses and exosomes, ... In the end, I understood that I would never be able to make an intelligent choice, because there is no certainty to built on. I realize that my resisting point of view is colored by my experiences and perception, but I want to point out that the trusting mindset on the other side of the spectrum is as much colored and thus inherently not more or less true. My feeling says the vaccine will bring lots of bad shit. I can't stop others from taking it (and why would I, THAT would be selfish ), but I can do what I feel I need to do for myself and my family. Time will tell who (if anyone) was right.