Traditional vs. Integrative Careers and personal inspiration

[PepperBlossoms]

People who are traditional minded - keeping things the same, tradition, culture - may tend to excel and take duty and pride in taking care of traditional infrastructure - stock market, roads, bridges, military, religion, family, history, money, humans

People who are progressive minded may tend to have less interest in maintaining/repairing traditional infrastructure and may even get bored/uninspired by it.  They may tend to see their duty/interest in progressing future knowledge/infrastructure - the future of science, education, healthcare, mechanics, physics, spirituality, space, software, art

Traditionalists may tend to be fine with dedicating their lives to things that we have already figured out, problems we already know how to solve/design for, problems where the main deal is learning from someone else how to solve something in a cookie-cutter, step by step way.  They may tend to focus on studying existing information.

Integrative/progressives may tend to get bored by that.  They may tend to want to dedicate their lives to the things that we have not figured out, things that the textbook/classroom cannot teach you, things that must be experimented with, imagined, created.  They may tend to focus on looking for new patterns, new connections, new ideas.

Ask yourself - what do we not know how to do and how do we progress more towards that? 

[Sahil Pandit]

@PepperBlossoms Nice distinction there.

I resonate with the more integrative/progressive type, meanwhile, the rest of my family is the traditional type...

It's been a journey to say the least.

[PepperBlossoms]

I realized after I posted this that I hadn't thought enough about it and that every moment is different and so even though there is the desire to be doing new stuff, everything is technically new as no 2 moments are the same.  Also, once something is invented, it instantly becomes old because it has already been invented but you can change the way you think about how new something is such as being 5 minutes new or being 5000 years new.

Even with "old stuff", we can look for new ways to do it and think about it.

I guess the difference between traditionalist and integrative/progressive is that traditionalist doesn't tend to look for new things and ways to change things while a integrative/progressive may tend to.

Sounds tough with the family Sahil.  I think lots of us may be in similar boats to various degrees.

 

[Manusia]

Wow.. nice thought.. It explain why some people disgusted by my new idea about things. And why I dont really be happy around people that have traditionalist mindset. They not inspire me. Sometimes I found they are just shallow mindest.

[Manusia]

Shallow is not right word, not creative. I think they serve some good purpose for the progresive mind.

[PepperBlossoms]

14 hours ago, Manusia said:

Wow.. nice thought.. It explain why some people disgusted by my new idea about things. And why I dont really be happy around people that have traditionalist mindset. They not inspire me. Sometimes I found they are just shallow mindest.

@Manusia I'm sorry people are being disgusted about your ideas!  

Yeah I find if anything, when talking to a traditionalist person, I learn more about how not to think than how to think.

The traditionalist mindset is helpful for having people who will want to take care of existing assets like property, information, etc. and may take pride in duty in repairing and maintaining it which is definitely helpful to some degree.. although in a way.. I wonder if that mindset warps how they picture reality and they have a harder time seeing things for how they really are and focus too much on how they want them to be and hold on to that instead...

I guess the difference is that the traditionalists tend to not engage with asking questions about WHY stuff is the way it is and they are not considering what could be changed.

Yeah I think you hit it spot on when saying that they tend to not be as creative!

 

[Bubba66]

@PepperBlossoms I asked a similar question four years ago when Leo started this Forum. I asked "Why are some people ok with living mechanically, while becoming more conscious is always an option." I asked it of myself as well as those more "traditional" folks around me. Leo responded with something like "this work is really about killing yourself. You still think this is a game, but once you realize this, you will quit." To me, this was a little severe and dramatic, but it does hint at a clue to the question: Why are some people ok with NPC lives? Why aren't more people the Hero?

If I may play "traditionalist's advocate" for a moment... I once listened to my friend's dad grumble about going to work one morning. He does a pretty important but traditionalist job, working in transportation of rocket fuels. I asked him point blank why he didn't try and find a career he was less stressed about. His answer was, "Somebody's gotta do it". Really think about this statement, and all that it says. this one sentence alone uncovers years of limiting beliefs constructed over time. 

It is absolutely true that we need hard working people who will support the infrastructure as such. There are problems every day behind the scenes that we are fortunate enough to ignore because of these individuals. Without Plumbers, we would have a hepatitis-ridden population. Without Nurses, we might very well have people dying in the streets. Without Coroners we would have dead people in the streets (yikes, I'm feeling morbid for the holiday I guess). Without Powerline workers, I'm pretty sure we would not be posting to this forum from our computers. 

To put this in simpler terms, you should consider re-watching (or watching if you haven't) Leo's video on Survival, and then his Self-deception series back to back this week. It will remind you of a few core principles that direct human behavior. That said, also acknowledge the crucial work that more traditionalist people play. I personally work as a Registered Nurse, and play my part in the infrastructure that way. I do approach my career with new innovations when I can, and also strategize to only work part-time, because at the end of the day it is a "moralistic" form of wage slavery, and its only a part of my life purpose, not the whole of it. 

I will leave with one final thought food: What if a self-actualized society started to develop, where those traditional jobs still existed. Instead of wasting our time in school, 14 year-olds are taught how to fix cars, and work on computers or even power lines. By 16 they can make a full time salary and save money for their education, or for their lives. Also consider a society whose employers acknowledge the existence of a life purpose, and act as coaches for people and not tyrants. Coaches who inspire the individual to use their mundane job, like accounting, as a launch pad to develop the financial and mental discipline needed to pursue their true passion, music theory. 

Even crazier yet, picture a world where everyone has a vital skill set, like plumbing, and everyone helps out in providing for the stability of the infrastructure; But only Part-time, so that each and every person has the ability to take 5 month retreats to awaken, or can work on their business or passions 5 days out of the week. Imagine a world where people's thirst for knowledge and creativity was rewarded, not stifled, all while we take on the honorable responsibility of taking care of one another. 

Brings a tear to the eye, almost. But then again, there is a life purpose for that (much like the saying "there's an app for that"). 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Bubba66

[Bubba66]

Also, people are dynamic creatures. Just because they work a "mundane" job and lack the knowledge of who Joseph Campbell was, does not mean that they are less human and creative than you or I. It means they make a different series of decisions, day in and day out, which then shapes their perceptions and abilities. This sort of thing can change, and it is the purpose of this website: to help break people out of the matrix called "unconscious living." 

Be careful in oversimplifying a whole segment of the population. Instead, see yourself in others, and acknowledge the difference in decisions you each make, and that really high quality communication can often guide people to the insights you find so valuable in your own life. 

[PepperBlossoms]

@Bubba66 Thanks for commenting on this and thanks for your perspectives and suggestions.

I have realized that I did not do enough thinking when I posted all of the comments and was "oversimplifying a whole segment of the population" yes as you mentioned above.  

It is amazing at how we can look at something based on our current focus and see it one way and then later on go back and see how much stuff we forgot or did not include in that thought group (or did not know about).

I agree in that many careers that people do today are very helpful and essential for our infrastructure to function and I am very grateful for their contributions.  I think I was acting out of a low ego earlier..

I think that the lure of personal development and trying to grow/invent/integrate may create an ego blinder of wanting to consider ourselves above those that we may, for whatever reason, say that they are not doing enough of- when in fact they could very well be doing it but in a different outlet than what we are doing - (similar to what you said above) - you said it pretty good.

Thanks for your service as being a nurse!  I am an engineer.

I agree in that work can be seen as "killing yourself" from one perspective, but at the same time, there are many other ways to look at it and many valuable things that it has.

To one degree it can be helpful to have the ideas that one does not want to be a worker slave, but to another, one could see - well if we did not have workers - okay fine - how would that need get met and can we practically make that happen or do we still need workers to fit this need?  It can still be helpful to at least have awareness of if the job is using you for profit/output or if, in addition, you are using the job to better yourself and help yourself for some additional purpose.

I'll check out those Leo videos again that you suggested.  Thanks!

Yeah it is nice to try to break more out of the "unconscious matrix."  Well said on that.

Those are some nice ideas that you have for the future.  If we switched our goals to make it so that we can work less instead of work more - make things more automated and have more needs met on a more massive scale - we could eventually get into the reality of working far less hours... it may happen eventually!

It is sad to set one's purpose as "somebody's gotta do it" but I can see that it was a valid need that society has as well as it gave him a way to help address that need as well as support himself.  I can see even my role as an engineer can have the mindset - "somebody's gotta do it too..."... hmm will have to think some more on that.

Thanks.