Leo’s Beautiful Endless Wonderland

[Javfly33]

23 minutes ago, Nahm said:

 

No. 

 

So how come is called "non duality"?

I am in Non-duality but in my own dream. But deeply separated between your appearance and my appearece. Each one is his own dream it seems.

Pd: And now you will say:

"my" and "your" is just a thought/label ?

[Someone here]

19 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

I think it's just the hair. 

Hey that's a bag on the wall behind me. the little extension on the left it's not my hair lmao. Anyways let's talk about something more relevant then my hair lol. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Someone here

[mandyjw]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Hey that's a bag on the wall behind me. the little extinction on the left it's not my hair lmao. Anyways let's talk about something more relevant then my hair lol. 

 Nothing is relevant.

Relevant: Medieval Latin relevantem (nominative relevans), from stem of Latin relevare "to lessen, lighten"  levant - levitate 

See, your hair looks very relevant. 

Since I have discovered the truth that I have always been twisting language and connotations and completely bastardizing the meaning of words to my own assumptions and biases, now I just have more fun with it, that's all. 

[Someone here]

12 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Since I have discovered the truth that I have always been twisting language and connotations and completely bastardizing the meaning of words to my own assumptions and biases, now I just have more fun with it, that's all. 

Alright. I forgive you. You can go now lol jk 

[James123]

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

That wasn’t my impression of how you were describing psychedelics. It seemed like there were subconscious referential experiences. For example, you weren’t describing how to scuba dive in the Great Barrier Reef of Australia while knitting a sweater. 

If every thought is identical then the post you wrote about how psychedelics can be a distraction to awakening would be identical to a post describing how to prepare a tuna fish sandwich. In one context this is true, yet not in another context. 

And this is dependent upon what a “thought” is. 

Definitely. All the thoughts are identical, because they are nothing. I did describe psychedelic experience differently that's the reason why i dont think awakening can come with psychedelics. 

 

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

houghts are one form of difference creation. There are many forms of difference. Rabbits create “differences” without thoughts. Yet relative to thinking, these wouldn’t count as “differences”. 

In some contexts, there is no such *thing* as a thought. There are spaces in which “thoughts” are no longer “thoughts”, they are inter-connected with “feelings”, “emotions”, “intuition”, “images”, “objects” etc. It would be like observing a painting and then trying to separate out all the colors and say this color is a “thought” and doesn’t belong in the painting.

 

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

If there is no naming and labeling “the” thoughts, thoughts are no longer “thoughts”. They are what we create them to be. 

And everything I’ve written here is “wrong” from another “perspective”. 

As i said, there is no thoughts different than me, therefore no thoughts. Because it is nothing therefore identical. As i said, i am god or hahajsjoa, these sentences are identical. Therefore there is no right or wrong, it is all identical. But in order to provide this information  to other people, i have to say the way that  with considering duality in order to connect with people. Meanwhile from this point there is no differences. You, me or anyone is already awake. Because already nothing. But it is not the case from point of view other person. Meanwhile me and him/her identical. As osho said, it might be a game for me, but it can be death between life for other person. 

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

Yes, but not in the construct you’ve created of “thought” and “difference”. If we create a thing called a “thought”, it is only one form of difference. There are “thoughtless” spaces of difference, yet it’s not a “thought difference”, so in your construct it wouldn’t qualify as a “difference”. 

 

Because, there is no differences, only naming and labeling creates the differences

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

t would be like removing the guitar player and saying there is no longer a difference between the guitar player and trumpet player. Of course not, we just removed the the guitar player. Likewise, if we remove “thoughts” there won’t be “thought-based” differences. 

Definitely. If there is no thoughts as that person is guitar player and other is trumpet player, if you dont name and label as “trumpet” and “guitar”, they will still be just a player, and will be no differences. Therefore, if you remove entire thought process that you have learned even if sun falls down, there will be no differences. Because, what is sun, me, falling, death? 

Edited December 14, 2020 by James123

[Nahm]

43 minutes ago, Someone here said:

He can but then when the mind is silent what is not thoughts reveals itself.  After all reality is not made of thoughts. Body is a thought but there is a body. If you are too smart and nondual to not understand what I'm trying to communicate by saying ' there is a body' then you have to take a step back. Sometimes trying to be so accurate ends up with losing the actuality. 

?‍♂️

36 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

So how come is called "non duality"?

Is not. Not is. 

36 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I am in Non-duality but in my own dream. But deeply separated between your appearance and my appearece. Each one is his own dream it seems.

There is no you in Nonduality. 
There is no separation in Nonduality. 
There is no appearance in Nonduality. 
There is no dream in Nonduality. 

[Forestluv]

19 minutes ago, James123 said:

 If there is no thoughts as that person is guitar player and other is trumpet player, if you dont name and label as “trumpet” and “guitar”, they will still be just a player, and will be no differences. Therefore, if you remove entire thought process that you have learned even if sun falls down, there will be no differences. Because, what is sun, me, falling, death? 

I would say it depends on the construct of ‘thoughts’ and ‘differences’. There are “thoughtless” realms with “differences”, yet not quite the same as traditional constructs of “thoughts” and “differences”. There are “spaces” in which “feelings”, “intuition”, “energetics” do the “thinking” of “discernment”. Sometimes “I” walk in nature and a “thought” won’t arise for 20min or so. It’s a “different” mode of beingness, yet there is still a form of “thinking” and “differences” appearing. It’s just a “different” way of relating without “thoughts”. Yet even “thoughts” are no longer “thoughts”. 

That’s the best way “I” can express “my” “experience”. Yet perhaps some “things” cannot be communicated. “I” would need to put every word in “ “. Almost like the right brain of imagination and creativity trying to communicate through the left brain of language and symbolism. And yes, there is no “right brain” or “left brain” that “exists”.

 

[mandyjw]

18 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Alright. I forgive you. You can go now lol jk 

 Your hair or not hair gave me an insight. The reason that everyone wastes so much time on this forum is because of the obsession with being relevant, and making high quality posts that are on topic. We spend more time worrying about wasting time than we do just focusing on what we want. That's how the law of attraction works, if you focus on what you don't want, that's exactly what you get. You have to learn to actually focus on what you want and the why behind why you want it. The root of the word relevant says it all, it's really all just about inspiration, lessening and lightening our resistance. 

If this forum has a shadow, THAT is it. Everyone here is scared of not making "high quality" contributions to discussions, when really what we actually want is love and connection and we know that that cannot be found with any confines. 

Awww... 

If we dropped the fear who knows what magic would unfold? 

[James123]

45 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I would say it depends on the construct of ‘thoughts’ and ‘differences’. There are “thoughtless” realms with “differences”, yet not quite the same as traditional constructs of “thoughts” and “differences”. There are “spaces” in which “feelings”, “intuition”, “energetics” do the “thinking” of “discernment”. Sometimes “I” walk in nature and a “thought” won’t arise for 20min or so. It’s a “different” mode of beingness, yet there is still a form of “thinking” and “differences” appearing. It’s just a “different” way of relating without “thoughts”. Yet even “thoughts” are no longer “thoughts”. 

Probably i agree, if this is the case. For instance there is no chatting appears in so called mind, but for instance the sensation of love arises and mind identify the feeling as “love”. So, so called mind named and labeled the sensation. But there is no thought or sensation is there. So called mind just identifies, names and labels it. So it is just the process of naming and labeling (sensation, feeling, visuals, thoughts, knowledge). But nothing is there, so whatever appears and if so called mind doesn’t name and label it, after that there will be no more so called mind. Because mind comes from same source to (thought).Just the moment. Nothing will ever happen. Because identification, naming and labeling is ended.

 

45 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

And yes, there is no “right brain” or “left brain” that “exists”.

Definitely.

Edited December 14, 2020 by James123

[Someone here]

37 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

 Your hair or not hair gave me an insight. The reason that everyone wastes so much time on this forum is because of the obsession with being relevant, and making high quality posts that are on topic. We spend more time worrying about wasting time than we do just focusing on what we want. That's how the law of attraction works, if you focus on what you don't want, that's exactly what you get. You have to learn to actually focus on what you want and the why behind why you want it. The root of the word relevant says it all, it's really all just about inspiration, lessening and lightening our resistance. 

If this forum has a shadow, THAT is it. Everyone here is scared of not making "high quality" contributions to discussions, when really what we actually want is love and connection and we know that that cannot be found with any confines. 

Awww... 

If we dropped the fear who knows what magic would unfold? 

If only it was so simple. 

See what you really want as God as infinity or whatever you wanna call this thing that is existence.. Is EVERYTHING. You want everything. You don't want just happiness and pleasure. You want to experience the worst pain possible. And you want understanding. You want to deeply understand yourself and the world. If you did that you don't need self validation. 

Also that's from the pov of the Truth itself. You as little ego are not even real. So we can't say what "you" really want cuz there is no "you" that wants anything. For example you can become conscious that your post up there is just rehashing what Nahm taught you. It's not yours. The words coming out of your mouth are not yours. But that's a different subject. 

Love and connection? All good stuff. But how about understanding yourself and existence fully down to every molecule? Seems like nothing else is more rewarding. 

[mandyjw]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Love and connection? All good stuff. But how about understanding yourself and existence fully down to every molecule? Seems like nothing else is more rewarding. 

You can wage a war between love and truth if you'd like, but you'd just be fighting yourself. You don't want knowledge, you want the end of knowing and the feeling of I Know that comes with it. But that process will never stop. It won't stop with molecules, you'll never find your essential building blocks as a separate thing for you to be aware of and say you "know". You've always been seeking a feeling and that feeling of what you seek is all you've ever been. Not a particular feeling but feeling itself. Knowledge chased back to its source is awareness itself, awareness is complete Knowing or Allowing of everything, which is none other but Love. 

[Forestluv]

@James123 Thanks for sharing “your” insights with “us” ? 

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

You can wage a war between love and truth if you'd like, but you'd just be fighting yourself. You don't want knowledge, you want the end of knowing and the feeling of I Know that comes with it. But that process will never stop. It won't stop with molecules, you'll never find your essential building blocks as a separate thing for you to be aware of and say you "know". You've always been seeking a feeling and that feeling of what you seek is all you've ever been. Not a particular feeling but feeling itself. Knowledge chased back to its source is awareness itself, awareness is complete Knowing or Allowing of everything, which is none other but Love. 

Again don't think you've got it all figured out. Because hey I am you and I don't agree with what you are saying here. And you as God are experiencing life through me right now and disagreeing with yourself. It's the nature of infinity it doesn't fucking end at a cute realization of love or what do you really want.

You don't want anything and you want everything simultaneously. How to reconcile that?  Who is to say what "I" want? Can you honestly find any "I" there that wants anything specific? 

See people want to ground themselves that they've got all figured out but you haven't been slapped by God yet. Lol 

[VeganAwake]

An empty happening completely filled ❤

[mandyjw]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Again don't think you've got it all figured out. Because hey I am you and I don't agree with what you are saying here. And you as God are experiencing life through me right now and disagreeing with yourself. It's the nature of infinity it doesn't fucking end at a cute realization of love or what do you really want.

I personally find good conversations and debates absolutely satisfying. 

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

You don't want anything and you want everything simultaneously.

I want my heart to keep beating and the sun to keep shining but I rarely think of that. So do I actually want it or not?

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

See people want to ground themselves that they've got all figured out but you haven't been slapped by God yet. Lol 

What makes you think or feel that, that I'm just regurgitating someone else's words or don't have it figured out and think I do? You want me to show or to point out to me the lack of my own realization somehow, for what, why? What do you get out of that? Why this obsession with pain? Love is literally too good to be true, so I must hang on to my suffering and make something of it? One of my Christian friends recently shared this absolutely gruesome detailed account of exactly how Christ was crucified, so that Christians can feel so blessed, is that the kind of religion you practice too? 

[electroBeam]

35 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

You don't want knowledge, you want the end of knowing and the feeling of I Know that comes with it.

Nope, that's not me, I want to know more and more forever.

Leo talks about how each person's brain chemistry is wired differently and some people can realize certain facets, while others can't. As if we all have different truths. Like how ralston can't understand love while rumi can. For tony parson, nothingness might actually be the ultimate truth, while for ramaji, infinite love might be the ultimate truth. In other words we all have different truths.

This argument makes a lot of sense when you see debates like these. For some people I totally resonate with what they are saying, for others I feel I'm on a completely different wavelength. I think its because each person really does have a different truth.

Such a perspective is helpful because it reduces debating when you sort of realize that there's no point debating them when their truth is literally different to yours. The whole point of a debate comes from the assumption that everyone shares the same truth, if that goes out the window, then debating becomes useless.

I think there's a clear brain chemistry difference between the tony parson types and leo's types. IMO the tony parson types are just suck at LOC 600, while Leo's endless wonderland is just going beyond LOC 1000 (that's literally my experience). Yet maybe I'm wrong, maybe for the tony parson types, LOC 600 actually is LOC 1000, and they just aren't curious enough or are incapable of going beyond LOC 1000 because in their experience its impossible.

The tony parson types might be able to experience a very deep level of emptiness that Leo isn't capable of, and that might be literally their truth, while for leo it isn't.

And it also explains why people want different stuff. Some people actually want to seek forever (like me) while others want to stop seeking.

And even this entire perspective, takes a certain brain chemistry to accept LOL. Some will say this is all just thoughts and the brain is imaginary, so this is all nonsense. It takes a certain brain chemistry to be ok with the paradox that while the brain is imaginary and just thoughts, it affects truth or consciousness.

This is just something that's really clicked with me recently, people really are sincere about their different truths, its not because one is meditating or doing the work more then the other, I think we are all living in a different reality.

Edited December 14, 2020 by electroBeam

[Gesundheit]

What does the truth care whether the human recognizes it or not?

[James123]

40 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

@James123 Thanks for sharing “your” insights with “us” ? 

Anytime. Thanks a lot for the great conversation. ?

Peace! 

Edited December 14, 2020 by James123

[Someone here]

36 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

What makes you think or feel that, that I'm just regurgitating someone else's words? 

Lol because that's how it works. Everything you say is obviously not yours cuz you had to learn it from someone else first. So how come I'm speaking English when I am Indian? Because I heard it from someone else. So what I'm saying now is the product of someone else's words. Language itself is something you pick from your environment. If you were born into a an empty society (no humans) you wouldn't talk your whole life cuz there is no one around you talking so that you can rehash what he is saying. That's how it works. It's not done by you. It's being done via you. 

36 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Why this obsession with pain? Love is literally too good to be true, so I must hang on to my suffering and make something of it

Bottom line suffering is inevitable. I never bought this notion of love anyways cuz I don't know how to fool myself. Suffering is part of infinity. 

What you want is precisely what exists. Cuz you as God have designed the entire universe atom by atom. And since all kinds of emotions exist.. You want them all. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Someone here

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Lol because that's how it works. Everything you say is obviously not yours cuz you had to learn it from someone else first. So how come I'm speaking English when I am Indian? Because I heard it from someone else. So what I'm saying now is the product of someone else's words. Language itself is something you pick from your environment. If you were born into a an empty society (no humans) you wouldn't talk your whole life cuz there is no one around you talking so that you can rehash what he is saying. That's how it works. It's not done by you. It's being done via you. 

Ok, yeah, I'm with you there. 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Bottom line suffering is inevitable. I never bought this notion of love anyways cuz I don't know how to fool myself. Suffering is part of infinity. 

Suffering is the delusion. Just like identifying and suffering for being male or female, young or old is. There's pain, there's males and females and different aged people. There's the facts and then there's the meaning and suffering is something that comes from choosing a meaning that's wrong and not aligned with love and mistaking it for fact. 

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Nope, that's not me, I want to know more and more forever.

No you don't. You don't want to know everyone's intimate life story of the details about their sex lives. You don't want to become an expert on the anatomy of caterpillars. You want to know specific things chosen based on the importance you've given these things based on how they make you feel. 

Ralston, Parsons, Ramajii don't know anything you don't project on them. Nobody possesses any knowledge. We make them up and some story about what they know. No one can make anyone else understand anything. No one can give you a truth you didn't ask for. You cannot find the answer to a question you've never asked. No one wants to keep seeking or stop seeking. You cannot do either of those things. You cannot find something that you believe to be lost. Why did God create the universe and then stop to rest on the 7th day? There's no rest unless something is created first. There's no such thing as rest if no action is taken first to rest from. Action and rest depend upon each other. Just like search and finding. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by mandyjw