Leo’s Beautiful Endless Wonderland

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

Leo can really help to people to improve their spiritual progress with recommending using psychedelics or his teachings, however the main problem is you will be stuck in the his wonderland, and as trying to have infinite mind, love or intelligence. Ego wants have something higher than itself, so awakening comes from completely letting go and surrendering. Meanwhile you are trying to reach or have something better than your current situation. And when you experience that awakening those all that infiniteness will  crash into singularity , will be just nothing. Before big bang, thats what you are. Thats why awakening is completely letting go and surrendering whatever you have. Thats why people love to use psychedelics and stay in the wonderland. What is before birth, thats what you are. 

Keep in mind this is one dynamic influenced by an experiential field. Profound and helpful in its context, yet still a conceptualization spoken ‘as is’. It is one dynamic that can appear, yet there are other dynamics.

The context reminds me of Ram Dass’ experience and relationship to psychedelics and awakening. A limited contextualization within infinite potential becomes extrapolated due to a contraction of attention at the expense of peripheral awareness. 

I think what you are expressing is very insightful, has value and is helpful for many people (including for me). Yet, it is also one dynamic of many which can arise. The range of what is with ‘psychedelics’ includes what you dynamic you describe, yet goes way beyond the that dynamic. When the mind loses sight of this and directs its attention to one dynamic, it loses peripheral awareness of other dynamics. That has advantages, yet comes at the cost of decreased mind fluidity, awareness of the unattended and holistic being.

[James123]

4 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Keep in mind this is one dynamic influenced by an experiential field. Profound and helpful in its context, yet still a conceptualization spoken ‘as is’. It is one dynamic that can appear, yet there are other dynamics.

Of course, you are right. But these are my observations from the people, who are in the form. And most of them stuck in this process. Just trying to help.

5 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I think what you are expressing is very insightful, has value and is helpful for many people (including for me). Yet, it is also one dynamic of many which can arise. When the mind loses sight of that, it loses peripheral awareness of other dynamics. That has advantages, yet comes at the cost of decreased mind fluidity, awareness of that unattended and holistic being. 

Definitely, I support psychedelics, however but mostly people depend on psychedelics and think that realized awakening with psychedelics in the form. Otherwise psychedelics are great tools to improve spiritual work. Encouraging %80 of the time psychedelics will mislead many people. Imo, Because thoughts never let you comprehend before the birth, singularity, pure and empty, therefore awakening. 

 

10 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

The context reminds me of Ram Dass’ experience and relationship to psychedelics and awakening. A limited contextualization within infinite potential becomes extrapolated due to a contraction of attention at the expense of peripheral awareness.

Can you please explain? 

[James123]

16 minutes ago, Adamq8 said:

You were nothing prior to your birth.

Zero experience.

Or was it an experience of having a non experience?

I understand you bro and you are outside of the matrix.

And GOD conciousness is still within the dream but it shows that it can dream whatever.

But still it is a dream.

You are talking about whats beyond that.

I think you are a good "person" to have on this forum brother.

Thanks brother you are good person too. I am just trying to help, you know. 

I just want to ask you, how do you even know you are experiencing now? What is experiencing? Such as where is your monkey mind? 

[VeganAwake]

What's being pointed to is pre concept, but the mind continuously tries to understand Pre concept...

It's the mind getting back on the knowing hamster wheel .....It's the minds inexhaustible or unrelenting attempt at trying to know the unknowable.

It's like saying I want to know Unknowing ?

 

[Ibgdrgnxxv]

8 hours ago, Ibgdrgnxxv said:

Yea.. but your now is made up of everything.

God is outside of everything including nothing. 

8 hours ago, James123 said:

Everything is nothing, singularity. Pure and empty. If you dont think, there is only nothing.

Like getting lost in your own world. (?) Except that God is conscious of every world. 

God is one. God is over all thing Powerful. 

[Q17:42] Say, "If there had been with Him gods, as they say, then they [each] would have sought a way to the Owner of the Throne."

Edited December 13, 2020 by Ibgdrgnxxv

[James123]

28 minutes ago, Ibgdrgnxxv said:

Like getting lost in your own world. (?) Except that God is conscious of every world. 

God is one. God is over all thing Powerful. 

[Q17:42] Say, "If there had been with Him gods, as they say, then they [each] would have sought a way to the Owner of the Throne."

“Die before you die”. After that you can realize that which hadits are written for ego and real you. Quran can never be comprehend by regular mind. You can just read it , but not understand it. 

Peace!

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, James123 said:

Can you please explain? 

Within the perceptions of Oneness / Singularity, there is no point, because there is no other point for contrast. There are no distinctions, thus no objects, sensations, thoughts etc. There is no observer, since there is nothing to observe. There is simply pure awareness / presence. The greatest gift of 5-meo, ime. 

And upon “return”, there is creation of distinctions. The edges of a coffee cup that make it a coffee cup. Distinctions between colors. Distinctions of feelings and thoughts, which can get highly complex - yet seem so simple. 

I consider immersion into distinctions to be attention - and it can range from high resolution to low resolution. High intensity to low intensity. There is also “background” awareness. The mind can become so immersed into attention of a candle flame that it loses awareness of the greater context of the larger environment. And a mind can become so aware with 5-Meo that it loses attention of distinctions (which can be considered and “awakening”). 

When “returning” from pure awareness, it’s easy for the mind to get immersed in attention to content and lose larger awareness. This has practical value in some contexts. Yet the mind can become so mesmerized by content it loses track of the larger context. It becomes mesmerized by the flame and loses awareness of the flame within the more expansive space. Being able to shift with balance and maneuver attention to content and awareness of context is a mind skill. This is one of the most powerful aspects of 5-meo ime. It can reveal the process of full deconstruction to pure awareness and the gradual construction of content. Pure awareness can’t be “seen” because the mind cannot place it’s attention on a singularity. Attention requires the contractions of distinctions to create a “thing” relative to another “thing” upon which to place the attention. 

[electroBeam]

14 hours ago, James123 said:

These sentences are just the truth. There is no personal opinion.

That's a lie by default

 

Its funny because I read your title as "God's Beautiful Endless Wonderland", and that's a great way of describing reality. Its a beautiful, loving, endless wonderland.

There's a drive to end the search. There's a want by lots of seekers for whatever reason to finally finish seeking, to quit it once and for all. Yet something that I think would be very hard for such seekers to stomach is that seeking is endless. Yeah you can think you're enlightened right now if you want to, but you'll seek again. This isn't the end. You'll be seeking again. You wont be in this state forever. You'll forget the big bang again. Just like how you did 3 or 4 years ago on a relative level. I'm not sure how, and you'll just label it a bunch of thoughts because that's the state you're in, but for illustration, you'll be seeking again when you reincarnate into another life form. And that's because this universe really is an endless wonderland. Of course it is, how could it be any other way? Your enlightenment is temporary by design. You want it(as God) to be temporary. You don't want to be liberated forever. You want to cycle back and forth from it. Its an endless wonderland.

Enlightenment is one thing, but knowing the truth is beyond enlightenment. Its something that not many are into, but its definitely a real thing. You can become so conscious that you're aware of how unenlightenment happens. You can know the full circle, and most importantly, you can know WHY unenlightenment happens. The problem with the state you're in, is you're totally clueless as to the WHYs, because you have mistakenly labelled the WHYs as thoughts. When actually they are deep knowings. And that's why I don't really resonate with your post, because the whys are missing. You mistakenly think the whys are just delusion. But its not, its profound stuff. Its beyond enlightenment stuff. If you take the whys away, I totally agree with your post. Every bit of it. But I'm too curious to leave the whys out. The very real, true whys. We've got different goals I guess, you're looking for bliss and happiness, I'm not, I'm looking to quench my curiosity. This leads to us placing importance on different things. You're highly emphasizing no thoughts because that gets you lots of bliss, yet misses the whys. My focus is much more on the whys, yet it includes thoughts, possibly too much.

Edited December 14, 2020 by electroBeam

[Eren Eeager]

15 hours ago, James123 said:

Stop trying to have or become infinite love or mind. Ego wants be something better than itself, however awakening is willingly surrendering the self ( not to try to be better something as self) and completely letting go. LEO STOP BRAINWASHING PEOPLE. Or maybe you aint awake. If it is the case i am DEEPLY sorry

Is this some Buddhist no-self bullshit? Just wondering? Because we have discussed it many times in this forum. Focuse on one aspect of the truth and deny the other aspects and then deny that there is more levels for enlightenment and then we end up with what you wrote. 

Being in a human form means that you still biased and not fully enlightened. Why would you stay in this body if you became fully God? Strange, huh? 

[Someone here]

10 hours ago, Nahm said:

 It Seems like without the subject (you) and object (your teeth) thinking, reality would just come to a standstill or something. But that is the miracle, if you will. There is not a you and a your teeth. 

I agree. Yes you are right. There already is no self and yet the body somehow functions consistently. But I don't think it will function well if even the sense of being a self dissolved like for example when someone is drunk. 

 

[abrakamowse]

22 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I agree. Yes you are right. There already is no self and yet the body somehow functions consistently. But I don't think it will function well if even the sense of being a self dissolved like for example when someone is drunk. 

 

That's what I was thinking too... but this is just a thought!

[Ry4n]

Once Leo went down the solipsism rabbit whole I kinda just tuned out, even Martin Ball commented on this trap of the ego; when you dissolve into the light you aren't taking anyone with you, it's still just your perspective. We're all just God toddlers. It makes sense though that an arrogant person would have such an interpretation of God however. Unless you surrender the mind once and for all you will forever live in delusion. 

[lmfao]

Good thread James.

I have often felt Leo's teachings give me the impression of trying to accumulate a bunch of spiritual goodies

[James123]

@electroBeam there is no reality. If there is no thoughts, what is left? You think you are in world right now?  There is no why, because why comes from so called monkey mind. Lastly, when you realize there is no monkey mind, you realize you have never born, if you never born what is left? Where is the reincarnation? Additionally, these are not personal, because person is constructed by the monkey mind. You must have direct experience of what is left after there is no monkey mind, which is experiencing before birth. Because your so called monkey mind (thought process) started your birth. Thats why you don’t remember before birth.

11 hours ago, Eren Eeager said:

Why would you stay in this body if you became fully God? Strange, huh? 

How do you know that this is a body? What is god? If there is no monkey mind, what is left to ask? You must have direct experience of what is left after there is no monkey mind, which is experiencing before birth. Because your so called monkey mind (thought process) started your birth. Thats why you dont remember before birth. 

12 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Within the perceptions of Oneness / Singularity, there is no point, because there is no other point for contrast. There are no distinctions, thus no objects, sensations, thoughts etc. There is no observer, since there is nothing to observe. There is simply pure awareness / presence.

Because there is no mind. Process of thoughts is what creates distinctions, duality and birth. If there is no monkey mind, what is left? Whatever left is what you are. So simple. Additionally, this is the main problem with psychedelics, because so called mind or a person can never get this no observer, nothing to observe or pure presence. Because still a thought process is going on. And after the trip mind will think that it will reach at higher consciousness and still questions rise, why, how vs? So thought process still goes on, whatever the trip you have experienced and can never be able to comprehend it that it is now. Imo, Mind can never comprehend this while thought process goes on,  therefore psychedelics are ineffective for awakening. However, in regular awakening, you can directly become conscious of it with no thoughts. Because at that moment you realize that everything was just a process of thoughts (entire duality). Such as the person, who consumed 5meo and experience a trip was a just a thought process, never happened. Therefore, not knowing take place as before birth, mind become silent, question doesn’t rises and become one with moment as before birth, after death and now. As always been.

12 hours ago, Forestluv said:

When “returning” from pure awareness, it’s easy for the mind to get immersed in attention to content and lose larger awareness. This has practical value in some contexts. Yet the mind can become so mesmerized by content it loses track of the larger context. It becomes mesmerized by the flame and loses awareness of the flame within the more expansive space. Being able to shift with balance and maneuver attention to content and awareness of context is a mind skill. This is one of the most powerful aspects of 5-meo ime. It can reveal the process of full deconstruction to pure awareness and the gradual construction of content. Pure awareness can’t be “seen” because the mind cannot place it’s attention on a singularity. Attention requires the contractions of distinctions to create a “thing” relative to another “thing” upon which to place the attention. 

This is the another main problem, psychedelics gives mesmerizing affects, or something fantastic during the trip till you become nothing (which is end of the road). And you can %90 lost your  track during the awakening process because when you return the regular mind you are mesmerized by it, and you will try to get back that  perspective again. Because whatever you explain of the above it is just a word, drinking water has no differences than consuming 5meo. However when you are awaken without psychedelics and you forget everything that you have learned, and there is just no one to think, talk and conceptualize. (What is thinking, conceptualizing, talking, seeing, awakening, me, god, learning What is what?, are they words,  or visuals? Where do they come from?   How can we take the knowledge as grounded, truth or real? What is grounded, truth or real? How can you even know that understanding is possible, what is understanding?) So you realize that you have never born, birth was just a thought of monkey mind, and if there is no monkey mind, what is left? Just you. But you cant even say me, because there is no monkey mind, and “me” is just a word. Therefore, Monkey mind   becomes quite and you are before birth, pure and empty. (but pure and empty is still a word, therefore you can say as genuinely not knowing, because mind is created by something that you have learned or know, it keeps wonder think and learn).  Genuinely now knowing. Surrendering the mind is must.

9 hours ago, Ry4n said:

Unless you surrender the mind once

Definitely ?

Edited December 14, 2020 by James123

[James123]

25 minutes ago, lmfao said:

Good thread James.

I have often felt Leo's teachings give me the impression of trying to accumulate a bunch of spiritual goodies

Anytime brother?

[electroBeam]

11 minutes ago, James123 said:

@electroBeam there is no reality. If there is no thoughts, what is left? You think you are in world right now?  There is no why, because why comes from so called monkey mind. Lastly, when you realize there is no monkey mind, you realize you have never born, if you never born what is left? Where is the reincarnation? Additionally, these are not personal, because person is constructed by the monkey mind. You must have direct experience of what is left after there is no monkey mind, which is experiencing before birth. Because your so called monkey mind (thought process) started your birth. Thats why you don’t remember before birth.

That's all fine and dandy, whats interesting personally to me though is why you place more importance on groundlessness then on groundedness. I don't disagree with you, that's all obviously happening. Its typical no self realization or mu as the zens call it, yet what's interesting to me is why you stop there and you don't go and discover insights in the constructs and creations itself. From my POV, I don't see that groundlessness as being superior to the constructs. I don't see nothingness or radical emptiness as  being superior to everythingness or constructs. Both the constructs and emptiness are one thing. They aren't a duality. The map isn't the territory, but the map is also the territory at the same time.

Emptiness is just 1 flavor. Yeah everything is ultimately groundless. Infact there's no point talking about it because you can't talk about it. Its just obviously severely empty. But this is just 1 side of the coin, there's also everythingness or groundedness that you're just completely palming off because you're too fixated on groundlessness. Like 0 = infinity. 0 is not superior to infinity. There's shit loads of insights in infinity, what you seem to be doing is saying 0 is all there is, infinity is delusion, and if you disagree with me then you're in Leo's wonderland.

[James123]

38 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Like 0 = infinity. 0 is not superior to infinity. There's shit loads of insights in infinity, what you seem to be doing is saying 0 is all there is, infinity is delusion, and if you disagree with me then you're in Leo's wonderland.

I am very sorry but, you don’t know  what the awakening is brother.

You are close to who you are when you are in deep sleep. “Ramana Maharshi “.

Nothing has never happened. And that’s nirvana. “Papaji”.

Thought is so cunning, so clever, that it distorts everything for its own convenience. Meditation is freedom from thought and a movement in the ecstasy of truth. Meditation is explosion of intelligence.

” Jiddu Krishnamurti”. 

Awakening is genuinely not knowing. “Peter Raltson “.

“All wrong-doing arises because of mind. If mind is transformed can wrong-doing remain?” “Buddha”. 

Let go everything, everything will come up to you.

Peace!

Edited December 14, 2020 by James123

[electroBeam]

13 minutes ago, James123 said:

I am very sorry but, you have no idea what the awakening is brother.

You're right there, I don't. Sorry that you do

13 minutes ago, James123 said:

You are close to who you are when you are in deep sleep. “Ramana Maharshi “.

What a silly quote. You're who you are all the time, even when you have an ego, and you're deluded. Obviously. Not just in deep sleep.

 

Peace to you too though!

[Breakingthewall]

stop shouting peace to each other !!!?

[VeganAwake]

Your both correct because its this and that THISNESS.

Can't get outside of everything ❤