Adeptus Psychonautica's direct response to Leo Gura

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

@Leo Gura 

Leo, you stated you would be interested in a public discussion and I (perhaps incorrectly, but I'm sure I am not alone here) interpreted that as you offering to have an on camera conversation - after all, our primary method of public broadcast is YouTube and that is where our collective audience is. That you expect me to engage with this forum rather than our common platform, and that you have ignored all my previous communications since your initial offer, makes the offer itself appear insincere and more like an attempt at damage control.

My complaints and criticisms of your work are already out there so I don't need to rehash them, but I will address a couple of the points you raised in your response which can be found here - https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/58177-adeptus-psychonautica-about-connor-murphy-and-actualized

1. You are absolutely NOT responsible for Connor, but you are responsible for YOUR treatment of Connor - clearly you agree at least to some level, because you have stopped calling him an unhinged lunatic and started treating him like a human being. So NO, you are not expected to "support" Connor Murphy, but you are expected to not be a total arse to him just because he is parroting you. 

2. The disconnect of YOU calling Connor an "unhinged lunatic", for saying almost word for word the EXACT same things you say is utterly absurd.

3. I fully appreciate that going through a process on camera is messy, and when framed as a subjective stream of thought then I have zero complaint with that. My issue is that doing so WITHOUT that proper framing is irresponsible, and both you and Connor are making the same mistakes here. Sure we all say strange things as we go through our process, but your "I'm leaving video" makes many statements framed as objective fact - and not to state the obvious, but you made this video BEFORE your 30 days of 5MEO. So NO you weren't recovering from 30 days of 5MEO breakthrough... unless of course we are adding time travel to your list of abilities?

4. I have never made a video on your "5MEO in the bath" antics. All my criticisms and footage I have ever shown are specific to the "I'm leaving" video which I have stated many times, and I try not to get bogged down in the numerous "Look what Leo has done now!" requests I receive. I think the fact that you are bundling it into this situation and getting defensive about it, probably says more about how YOU feel about that "5MEO in the bath" video. 

If you want my opinion on it - then I think setting up a laptop in the bathroom for the explicit purpose of watching porn and masturbating in the bathtub while high, is simply an indication that you have an unresolved porn addiction rather than an expression of supreme spirituality. But hey - whatever rocks your boat dude.

5. Yes I am white knighting Connor, because sometimes people need a white knight. One can only assume that on some level you agree, because you did a 180, stopped making derogatory comments about Connor, reached out to him, and now everyone seems happier for it. This is the beauty of peeking outside of the echo chamber once in while, because sometimes the position you have needs to be challenged. Now that job is done I can ride my white horse home.

6. I have never questioned whether you are, or are not God, nor stated that you claim God is exclusive to you. This is a strawman of my criticism, so allow me to clarify. My criticism simply revolves around the abilities you claim can be unlocked by having had the God awakening - an awakening which according to YOU, you have gone through multiple times. My argument is simply that such abilities are completely delusional bullshit, along with the various ego inflations which seem to accompany it.

I don't want to go through the entire video blow by blow, but here is one of your direct quotes to accurately highlight my position, and how your statements are being framed as objective fact rather than fluffy poetic subjective interpretations (see point 3 above)

"I can help you to discover that you are God. When you do realize that you are God, this will instantaneously solve every single problem in your life, not only that but it will heal you, it will heal you of every disease and problem that you have"

 ...apart from porn addiction, chronic fatigue, digestion problems, and textbook narcissism I guess?

We can clearly see that I absolutely acknowledge that your narrative is "God for everyone", and there are many more examples of this throughout the video, so why you latch onto this strawman is baffling. Its a real disservice to Actualized that so many of its followers make this basic mistake.

Now as for all the various claims about psychic powers, nonduality, what all this means - that's something we could get into if you ever want to ACTUALLY ENGAGE with me, but I'm not going to spend any more time on this forum than need be. I signed up purely for the reason to take you up on your offer for a public conversation, but if that offer is no longer there or that I misconstrued it then this account is of no use to me. Forum based back and forths are often petty and unproductive, and I think you of all people know this, so why you would suggest it as an appropriate medium for a discussion like this is baffling - again it just reeks of the insincerity of the original offer.

My offer for a conversation is still there, and as I think this whole debacle has perfectly highlighted - sometimes its good to be challenged. That challenge works both ways, and make no mistake about it Leo - you could certainly challenge me, and I think we could have a fascinating conversation. Despite how you might read my admittedly snarky and blunt comments, I have said many times that I greatly respect what you have achieved here with Actualized, and that you have done some superb work with great insights. I sincerely tip my hat towards you and encourage you to stick your head above the trench-line, because the greater conversation around psychedelics and consciousness will happen anyway - just without you. This is somewhat tragic because I think you have valuable contributions to make to the discourse that is happening OUTSIDE of Actualized, if you could just pull your head out of your own arse and be prepared to accept a few bruises to your ego.

If you find me too much of an insufferable twat to deal with, then might I recommend "Your Mate Tom" who I know is also open to talking with you. I actually spoke with Tom just last night, and he's a great guy - very down to earth, and open to different perspectives. Yes we talked about you and, with some obvious caveats, we both reiterated that we appreciate your work. Maybe its time to leave the Howard Hughes persona behind, rejoin the conversation, and clean up the bottles of stagnant piss?

One final point I would like to address is more to your fans who seem entirely obsessed with the notion that "I am here to cash in by milking the Leo cow". I find comments like this about views and subs to be extremely lame, but since I am already here and we are having a reality check then lets roll with this.

Out of 102 videos I have made then 3 are about Leo (its really more like 2.5 since this last one is more about Connor Murphy, but lets round it up to 3). None of those 3 are anywhere close to my best performing videos - so NO, Leo is not a cash cow. My best performing videos are all related to substances (DMT, 5MEO, Amanita), so if we must use such crude analogies then SUBSTANCES are the cash cow by ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE. 

I'm sure even Leo can agree with me here that a video about 5 MEO will get more traffic than a video about Leo Gura, so if your opinion of me is that I am simply looking to cash in, then your argument makes ZERO FUCKING SENSE. I talk about Leo when he says something I think needs addressing, not because he is instant cha-ching ...because he isn't.

Thanks to anyone who took the time to read all of this.

Rob - Adeptus Psychonautica

[Moksha]

This could be a conscious discourse, or an epic ego battle. I vote for consciousness 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Moksha

[Gesundheit]

Good.

[fridjonk]

1 hour ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

If you find me too much of an insufferable twat to deal with, then might I recommend "Your Mate Tom" who I know is also open to talking with you.

This would be like a conversation between Leonard Susskind and Bill Nye, lol. 

[Rilles]

Let the battle of the sages begin! *lightsaber noise*

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Moksha said:

This could be a conscious discourse

No

[abrakamowse]

18 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

No

Yes

[Consilience]

6 hours ago, Rilles said:

Let the battle of the sages begin! *lightsaber noise*

More like Anakin activating his lightsaber at the youngling ?

Don’t fall to the darkside Leo ❤️

[Mafortu]

Leo, this is what happens when you reply using sarcasm and derision on the forums, people do this.

[SpiritualAwakening]

8 hours ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

My criticism simply revolves around the abilities you claim can be unlocked by having had the God awakening - an awakening which according to YOU, you have gone through multiple times. My argument is simply that such abilities are completely delusional bullshit, along with the various ego inflations which seem to accompany it.

 And that criticism is exactly what is holding you back. Openness and willingness, these abilities actually can come along as different facets of the whole, but are you able to tap into that ? I am speaking from my own direct experience. After having realized godhead these things just transparently came along with it, I instantly realized that they were distractions but it all happened when it needed to happen AND for good fucking reasons too. So you denying the universe's infinite possibilities is just a dead end for you my friend.

Edited December 9, 2020 by SpiritualAwakening

[Forestluv]

37 minutes ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

denying the universe's infinite possibilities is just a dead end for you my friend.

I think a big part is direct experience of infinity and the null void. Ime, LSD, mushrooms, aya are all mind expanding and reveal facets. Yet 5meo is the one for clear nothing / everything / omniscience. It's curious to me how different minds have different 5meo experiences and contextualizations. The personal/human aspects are fine in a practical sense, yet that is a mental contraction within infinite. How a mind can regularly do 5meo and not have this realization is beyond me. In a way, it's impressive that a mind can be melted by 5meo and then return back to it's formal rigid structure. 

[SpiritualAwakening]

11 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I think a big part is direct experience of infinity and the null void. Ime, LSD, mushrooms, aya are all mind expanding and reveal facets. Yet 5meo is the one for clear nothing / everything. It's curious to me how different minds have different 5meo experiences and contextualizations. The personal/human aspects are fine in a practical sense, yet that is a mental contraction within infinite. How a mind can regularly do 5meo and not have this realization is beyond me. In a way, it's impressive that a mind can maintain rigid contraction through multiple trips of 5meo. 

That's because it's not just about the substance (would be too easy). From what I see (but what do I know right?) @AdeptusPsychonautica still has a lot of contemplation and inquiry to do. He's focused on the substance and experience OF THE SUBSTANCE 'Psychedelics' (external) instead of the actual work (internal). We also shouldn't forget that the ego loves to judge what it doesn't understand.

[Leo Gura]

10 hours ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

Leo, you stated you would be interested in a public discussion and I (perhaps incorrectly, but I'm sure I am not alone here) interpreted that as you offering to have an on camera conversation - after all, our primary method of public broadcast is YouTube and that is where our collective audience is. That you expect me to engage with this forum rather than our common platform, and that you have ignored all my previous communications since your initial offer, makes the offer itself appear insincere and more like an attempt at damage control.

There is really no damage to control. I just needed to make clear that what Connor is doing has little to do with my teachings.

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1. You are absolutely NOT responsible for Connor, but you are responsible for YOUR treatment of Connor - clearly you agree at least to some level, because you have stopped calling him an unhinged lunatic and started treating him like a human being. So NO, you are not expected to "support" Connor Murphy, but you are expected to not be a total arse to him just because he is parroting you. 

The reason I reached out to him is: 1) Because I don't want him to hurt himself, and 2) Because I don't want him to give spirituality and psychedelics and Actualized.org a bad image. Yes, your video spurred me into taking these possibilities more seriously because in general I don't take people like Connor seriously unless I'm really forced to. I don't sit around watching people's spiritual videos. My attention is focused on my own work. When some posts a video mentioning me or criticizing me, I have zero interest in seeing it. My initial reaction is that it's a distraction. Any errors in my work will not be revealed to me by some YouTube reactionary, they will be found by myself. I don't need you to tell me where I'm deluded, I will find all those areas much deeper myself.

I still hold to my initial statements:

1) Connor is acting like an unhinged lunatic in the way he style his videos. Any casual observer with perceive him to be unhinged, regardless of whether this is true or not. I wanted to speak to Connor to find out if he's actually unhinged in person. My conversation with him was healthy and reasonable. I wish he came off that way in his videos so people don't get the wrong idea. But he told me he deliberately plays up the crazy for purpose of views and clicks. To me that's a waste of my time. This entire "controversy" is basically nothing but clickbait drama. Which is why I don't usually respond to such things. It's a distraction from serious spiritual work. I generally don't like it when people create controversy and drama just for attention because this seriously distracts my audience from the deep work they should be focused on doing. I am protective of my audience's attention. I don't want it directed towards dramatic stuff like Connor's Tantric sex. It's a waste of time.

2) I still hold that Connor is a Zen devil. I have an old video: Becoming A Zen Devil, where I explain many of the traps Connor is falling into.

My treatment of Connor was fine considering that I try to keep my focus on my own work and not the work of others. When a guy comes off as unhinged I don't give that person much of my attention. That's what happened. Then your video made me rethink the situation and get involved. I generally don't like getting involved in such things because it's usually not constructive or productive.

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2. The disconnect of YOU calling Connor an "unhinged lunatic", for saying almost word for word the EXACT same things you say is utterly absurd.

No, he is not saying the same things I am saying. Not at all. I have never engaged in clickbait with my channel. I do the opposite of clickbait and it costs me millions of views and $$$. So to compare my teachings with Connor is absurd.

Just because Connor says basic spiritual truths such as "I am God" or "Life is a dream" or "Do psychedelics" does not mean his teachings are the same as mine. Those a common spiritual truths which many spiritual teachers say. What matters is the other 95% of the teaching.

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3. I fully appreciate that going through a process on camera is messy, and when framed as a subjective stream of thought then I have zero complaint with that. My issue is that doing so WITHOUT that proper framing is irresponsible, and both you and Connor are making the same mistakes here. Sure we all say strange things as we go through our process, but your "I'm leaving video" makes many statements framed as objective fact - and not to state the obvious, but you made this video BEFORE your 30 days of 5MEO. So NO you weren't recovering from 30 days of 5MEO breakthrough... unless of course we are adding time travel to your list of abilities?

My leaving video was recorded after a massive breakthrough in consciousness facilitated by 5-MeO-DMT, which is why I left to do the 30 day retreat. I was also going through a very challenging health situation.

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4. I have never made a video on your "5MEO in the bath" antics. All my criticisms and footage I have ever shown are specific to the "I'm leaving" video which I have stated many times, and I try not to get bogged down in the numerous "Look what Leo has done now!" requests I receive. I think the fact that you are bundling it into this situation and getting defensive about it, probably says more about how YOU feel about that "5MEO in the bath" video.

Firstly, there were no "antics". I just sat in a bath. That's it. That's what you call "antics".

Secondly, I thought you had an issue with my taking a bath on 5-MeO-DMT. I know some YouTube reactionary did, I guess that wasn't you but someone else. I confuse you with that someone else. My bad and my apologies.

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If you want my opinion on it - then I think setting up a laptop in the bathroom for the explicit purpose of watching porn and masturbating in the bathtub while high, is simply an indication that you have an unresolved porn addiction rather than an expression of supreme spirituality. But hey - whatever rocks your boat dude.

Lol. I will watch porn whenever I damn please and I don't care about your judgments on the matter.

If you have a problem with me watching porn or jerking off, that's all you.

Addiction is your assumption. I never said anything about addiction. It was a spiritual experience, and an amazing one that you only wish you had. To become fully conscious of what sexual desire is, is a profound awakening. And to give yourself the sexual pleasure you desire is also a profoundly healing spiritual experience. Try it sometime instead of judging

Expression of sexual desire is not a pathology.

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5. Yes I am white knighting Connor, because sometimes people need a white knight. One can only assume that on some level you agree, because you did a 180, stopped making derogatory comments about Connor, reached out to him, and now everyone seems happier for it. This is the beauty of peeking outside of the echo chamber once in while, because sometimes the position you have needs to be challenged. Now that job is done I can ride my white horse home.

Calling Connor a Zen devil was a precise articulation of his problem. My comments were derogatory in the same way that anyone new watching some of Connor's unhinged videos would react. BTW, I withheld commenting or judging Connor for many months. People have been posting his videos here since last spring and I withheld judgment even though in the back of my mind I already saw that this guy was a troublemaker and a potential distraction. I only called him an unhinged lunatic after enough of his videos were posted here and your video linking him to me was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I toned down my language so that I could reach out to Connor and find some common ground to try to persuade him not to go down the road of Zen devilry. If he continues making unhinged clickbait videos, my initial opinions of him will stand. I want to give him some space to correct himself.

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6. I have never questioned whether you are, or are not God, nor stated that you claim God is exclusive to you. This is a strawman of my criticism, so allow me to clarify. My criticism simply revolves around the abilities you claim can be unlocked by having had the God awakening - an awakening which according to YOU, you have gone through multiple times. My argument is simply that such abilities are completely delusional bullshit, along with the various ego inflations which seem to accompany it.

Such abilities are not delusional bullshit. But these abilities require serious spiritual practice to actualize. A psychedelic trip alone will not grant these abilities in the sober state. This is still something I'm researching and figuring out.

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I don't want to go through the entire video blow by blow, but here is one of your direct quotes to accurately highlight my position, and how your statements are being framed as objective fact rather than fluffy poetic subjective interpretations (see point 3 above)

"I can help you to discover that you are God. When you do realize that you are God, this will instantaneously solve every single problem in your life, not only that but it will heal you, it will heal you of every disease and problem that you have"

 ...apart from porn addiction, chronic fatigue, digestion problems, and textbook narcissism I guess?

That particular statement was overstated, to be fair to you. And I can see why that would arouse skepticism in people like you.

Nevertheless, deep consciousness can indeed resolve and heal many problems in your life. It's not a magic cure for everything. Some problems need to be fixed at the material level. So I will concede that point to you. I exaggerated with that statement. I do have tendency to exaggerate and overstate things sometimes in order to communicate the depth and profundity of these remarkable states of super-human consciousness. Sober words don't really do these states justice.

The truth is that everything that I said about spirituality, consciousness, and psychedelics is a gross understatement. I have accessed states of consciousness which are absolutely beyond anything that could be explained or taught, or that has been accessed by traditional teachers. Doubt me if you like, but I don't care. In these states of consciousness literally every problem is resolved. The problem is how to sustain such consciousness. That's the only real problem.

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Now as for all the various claims about psychic powers, nonduality, what all this means - that's something we could get into if you ever want to ACTUALLY ENGAGE with me, but I'm not going to spend any more time on this forum than need be. I signed up purely for the reason to take you up on your offer for a public conversation, but if that offer is no longer there or that I misconstrued it then this account is of no use to me. Forum based back and forths are often petty and unproductive, and I think you of all people know this, so why you would suggest it as an appropriate medium for a discussion like this is baffling - again it just reeks of the insincerity of the original offer.

My offer for a conversation is still there, and as I think this whole debacle has perfectly highlighted - sometimes its good to be challenged. That challenge works both ways, and make no mistake about it Leo - you could certainly challenge me, and I think we could have a fascinating conversation. Despite how you might read my admittedly snarky and blunt comments, I have said many times that I greatly respect what you have achieved here with Actualized, and that you have done some superb work with great insights. I sincerely tip my hat towards you and encourage you to stick your head above the trench-line, because the greater conversation around psychedelics and consciousness will happen anyway - just without you. This is somewhat tragic because I think you have valuable contributions to make to the discourse that is happening OUTSIDE of Actualized, if you could just pull your head out of your own arse and be prepared to accept a few bruises to your ego.

I get very little out of engaging with you. It takes up time which I could invest in creating better videos.

I have a general policy not to engage with any reactionary material to my work. Now, of course, my critics will chalk that up to the fact that my positions are too weak to be defended in public debate. But the reality is that the things I teach cannot be debated at all. So I don't debate and I don't react. I don't really do interviews either. Because I want all my attention to be focused on constructive work.

My policy has always been not to engage reactionaries. I made a rare exception for your video because Connor has a large audience and I don't want them to get misled about this work, and also because I became somewhat concerned about Connor's psychological health. Your video did make me take this issue more seriously, as I initially dismissed the seriousness of the situation. Because my mind is not focused on anyone's work but my own. So some thanks to you for that. If a see some crazy YouTuber doing something, I generally have no interest in butting in. I got my own work to focus on.

This whole incident, thanks your video, has made me even more convinced that in the future I will not be responding to any reactionary YouTube content about me. And that is because nothing of value comes from it. I will not do debates and I will not defend any of my teachings. My teachings will stand completely on their own merits. My teachings are true only if you can validate them for yourself. Anything that comes out of my mouth which you cannot validate is not true. Which makes things very simple. My teachings are not an ideology of any kind and therefore they require no defending or debate. You cannot discover the truth of my teachings via a conversation, discussion, or debate. You cannot know whether miraculous healing is possible from super-human states of consciousness via discussion on YouTube. The only way to solve that is to actually do it.

I thank you for your willingness to engage in a public conversation, but I would rather focus my time and energy towards creating positive new content rather than distracting my audience with drama, gossip, and controversy.

It's not that I'm saying you're wrong, either. Even if you are right, I will let the audience make that determination for themselves while I move on with doing my constructive work. But I simply have no interest in publicly adjudicating rightness or wrongness. A much faster way to adjudicate that is through actual practice. Practice is what will cut out all the falsehood. If you are right and I am wrong, practice will show that. So I would rather just direct my audience to practice more.

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If you find me too much of an insufferable twat to deal with, then might I recommend "Your Mate Tom" who I know is also open to talking with you. I actually spoke with Tom just last night, and he's a great guy - very down to earth, and open to different perspectives. Yes we talked about you and, with some obvious caveats, we both reiterated that we appreciate your work. Maybe its time to leave the Howard Hughes persona behind, rejoin the conversation, and clean up the bottles of stagnant piss?

I simply have zero interest in explaining myself to YouTube reactionaries. I would rather just focus on making videos that actually help people do spiritual work.

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One final point I would like to address is more to your fans who seem entirely obsessed with the notion that "I am here to cash in by milking the Leo cow". I find comments like this about views and subs to be extremely lame, but since I am already here and we are having a reality check then lets roll with this.

Out of 102 videos I have made then 3 are about Leo (its really more like 2.5 since this last one is more about Connor Murphy, but lets round it up to 3). None of those 3 are anywhere close to my best performing videos - so NO, Leo is not a cash cow. My best performing videos are all related to substances (DMT, 5MEO, Amanita), so if we must use such crude analogies then SUBSTANCES are the cash cow by ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE.

Okay, good for you. In general I have a very low opinion of YouTubers who make their careers as reactionaries. If that's not you, then great. I wish you a long and happy career as a constructive content creator rather than a troll.

Maybe at some point in the future we could have a public conservation, but right now my focus is on deepening my own practice. I'm not even much interested lately in being a YouTuber. Very soon most of my focus will be going into my own radical awakening and spiritual practice. When I do my deepest work you will not even know that I exist.

[James123]

36 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I think a big part is direct experience of infinity and the null void. Ime, LSD, mushrooms, aya are all mind expanding and reveal facets. Yet 5meo is the one for clear nothing / everything. It's curious to me how different minds have different 5meo experiences and contextualizations. The personal/human aspects are fine in a practical sense, yet that is a mental contraction within infinite. How a mind can regularly do 5meo and not have this realization is beyond me. In a way, it's impressive that a mind can maintain rigid contraction through multiple trips of 5meo. 

Imo, These substances help you to expand your consciousness or experience godhead. However, because you can remember, name and label whatever you are experiencing during the psychedelics trip that destroys completely importance of awakening. Because awakening experience without psychedelics clearly is death for monkey mind, therefore there is no self to remember anything. Deepest sleep but awake. I forgot everything for hours. It was just me, but there is no self to remember any words. I cant even say me, because what is saying “me”. However, i even did 10 gr dry shrooms it didn’t hit me as awakening experience. I had ego death almost a week before the awakening, meanwhile with psychedelics it just take 30 min. I just want to explain it, because i know that you like the understanding how the so called brain works stuff. Not remembering everything was completely being nothing. 

And now taking psychedelics is like, there is a body and you are inside of it, meanwhile all of them is just a thought process. Or taking psychedelics type of ego now, because there must be a self first in order to consume psychedelics. Body, psychedelics, experiencing, self is just a thought or something that has been learned. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by James123

[Moksha]

My 2 cents: Leo's response feels clean. Also, I looked up his video on Zen Devilry, and he is correct. I see a lot of it here, but that is ok too.

[SpiritualAwakening]

@Leo Gura So you're never going to do a live inquiry with 1 or more people. Or a conversation of mutual interest, together working towards the absolute. Not one agreeing or disagreeing or not with one's solution or one's acceptance or denial to that solution. But discovering together.

[Moksha]

@SpiritualAwakening It takes two to Consciously tango.

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Moksha said:

@SpiritualAwakening It takes two to Consciously tango.

Salt of the Earth 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

@Leo Gura So you're never going to do a live inquiry with 1 or more people.

Live inquiry?? You might as well be speaking of unicorns.

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Or a conversation of mutual interest

I am open to conversations with certain people about certain topics. But that's a very special situation. It must be the right person for the right reason in the right setting on the right topic with the right audience.

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together working towards the absolute.

There is no working together towards the absolute. This is nonsense.

If you want the Absolute, stop talking, sit down, shut up, and access it directly for yourself. No human can give you the Absolute.

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Not one agreeing or disagreeing or not with one's solution or one's acceptance or denial to that solution. But discovering together.

This is not something that happens in any YouTuber interaction.

I've had some of those conversations in private. But again, it requires a very special person and a very special situation.

Generally though, you will NEVER discover the truth via a conversation with someone else. All conversation is a distraction from spiritual practice. Which is why your ego craves it so much.

[Heart of Space]

So, @AdeptusPsychonautica as someone has been following Leo's work for a while I was interested to see your criticisms.  I was hoping for a well thought out critique in both video's I watched.  I say that in absolute earnest.  Too be perfectly  honest I wasn't very impressed.  It felt like you gave the absolute most uncharitable interpretation of his statements and were projecting quite a bit.  You come across angry and attacking too.