What to say to a conspiracy theorist?

[Striving for more]

9 hours ago, DocWatts said:

multiple relatively neutral Fact Checking sources conflict with what your professed Conspiracy Theory, it's almost certainly wrong.

Fair enough but when someone on this forum just says "use google and click on the first fact checking website you see (Which could easily be a biased site funded by certain people/groups) and use that 1 source as instant hard evidence of whether something is a fact or not is completely different to applying "multiple relatively neutral fact checking sources" 

[alomorti]

@Striving for more I'm afraid that you're wasting your energy.

I suppose it is a kind of self-defending mechanism protecting one's psychical integrity. This is not even close to promoted here open-mindedness. One must be not afraid of the truth because if not ready, one's own world would collapse.

I'm speaking from my own experience which was painful, but it was necessary. By painful I mean almost losing my mind. But, now I know. Saying that all conspiracy theories are fake is stupid same as saying that none are fake.

Edited December 12, 2020 by alomorti

[DocWatts]

Hence why Media Literacy and basic knowledge of Epistemology are arguably more important now than at any other point in our History. Which in all fairness, are two subjects that our Society does a terrible job of educating people on.

Edited December 12, 2020 by DocWatts

[Scholar]

Fundamentally, conspiratorial thinking is a result of a fearful mind and a closed heart. Notice this. If you are fearful, you become distrustful of others. Your heart closes and your mind will seek confidence. Conviction and paranoia are a hallmark of a fearful mind.

A fearful mind and closed heart will look at the world through the lense of fear. It will attempt to find potential threats as a function of survival. It will construct or adopt an ideology that fits into this lense.

 

You cannot fix this on a surface level. Instead you must address the fear and attempt to open the heart. This is the root of the problem. You have to change the lense from which your brother and sister looks at this world, and this you can only do if you touch their hearts. An open heart will result in an open mind. When you do not fear, you do not need certainty, you do not need to be distrustful.

[DocWatts]

@Scholar I think it's also important to recognize that people who buy into Conspiracy Theories do so on a spectrum, and not everyone gets involved to the same level. Not everyone who propagates Conspiracy Theories is a hardcore Conspiracy Theorist.

Some people just dabble, while others will form a whole identity around it. I'd be willing to bet a lot more get sucked in out of ignorance and a lack of media literacy, as opposed to those who go much further and use it as a lens through which to view the world.

[Scholar]

3 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

@Scholar I think it's also important to recognize that people who buy into Conspiracy Theories do so on a spectrum, and not everyone gets involved to the same level. Not everyone who propagates Conspiracy Theories is a hardcore Conspiracy Theorist.

Some people just dabble, while others will form a whole identity around it. I'd be willing to bet a lot more get sucked in out of ignorance and a lack of media literacy, as opposed to those who go much further and use it as a lens through which to view the world.

What is it about the dabblers that makes the conspiracy theories interesting to them in the first place?

[PurpleTree]

also many stories which people looked at as "conspiracy theories"

turned out to be true after some time or decades.

conspiracy theory is a crappy term imo 

[DocWatts]

20 minutes ago, Scholar said:

What is it about the dabblers that makes the conspiracy theories interesting to them in the first place?

A lot of times it can be that a Conspiracy Theory is presented in a really compelling way that seems to make sense if the person doesn't dig any further into it. A person can come away thinking that the government was hiding the true nature of the JFK assassination, without necessarily going beyond that and using Conspiracy Theories as a lens to look at reality.

Believing in a Conspiracy Theory can be much more emotionally gratifying, and takes much less intellectual work, than forming a coherent picture out of the messy and complex nature of reality. Human psychology is highly suspectable to imposing narratives onto events that aren't necessarily connected in any meaningful way, and Conspiracy Theories are able to capitalize on this.

Not everyone who unthinkingly shares a post on why the moon landing was a hoax necessarily has a deep, emotional attachment to Conspiracy Theories in the same way that someone whose gone further down that Rabbit Hole does. Unreflective, lazy thinking can explain a lot in this regard.

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by DocWatts

[Scholar]

10 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Believing in a Conspiracy Theory can be much more emotionally gratifying, and takes much less intellectual work, than forming a coherent picture out of the messy and complex nature of reality. Human psychology is highly suspectable to imposing narratives onto events that aren't necessarily connected in any meaningful way, and Conspiracy Theories are able to capitalize on this.

But the questions, why are they emotionally gratifying for some but not others? Why do some people have the need to form a coherent picture out of reality? Why are some people more susceptible to imposing narratives onto events?

Why are connections made where there are no connections, or where we cannot know there are any connections?

 

If you watch most conspiracy content today, they are fundamentally based on a narrative of the public (the victim) being manipulated by an elite (the government, corporations etc). Why is this so compelling to people?

I do not think conspiratorial thinking is just a difference of belief in certain facts. I think there is a deeper root why certain facts are more appealling to an individual than others.

 

I would seperate believing in a conspiracy theory from conspiratorial thinking. I can believe that a certain conspiracy is true without actually falling into conspiratorial thinking.

[DocWatts]

3 minutes ago, Scholar said:

But the questions, why are they emotionally gratifying for some but not others? Why do some people have the need to form a coherent picture out of reality? Why are some people more susceptible to imposing narratives onto events?

Why are connections made where there are no connections, or where we cannot know there are any connections?

 

If you watch most conspiracy content today, they are fundamentally based on a narrative of the public (the victim) being manipulated by an elite (the government, corporations etc). Why is this so compelling to people?

I do not think conspiratorial thinking is just a difference of belief in certain facts. I think there is a deeper root why certain facts are more appealling to an individual than others.

 

I would seperate believing in a conspiracy theory from conspiratorial thinking. I can believe that a certain conspiracy is true without actually falling into conspiratorial thinking.

Agreed. I think education (specifically media literacy, scientific literacy, and knowledge of basic epistemology) as well as the unmet deficiency needs in one's life are primary factors in how suspectable a person is to Conspiratorial Thinking. Most people who have researched the subject are well aware that feelings of disempowerment and a lack of control are shared psychological traits of people who fall into a Conspiratorial mindset.

I also think learned people vastly overestimate the amount of deliberate thought and reflection that most people really put into thier worldview. 

I don't think we really disagree on there being a deeper cause for why people fall into Conspiratorial Thinking, but I would say that people buy in at different levels for different reasons, and that the deeper metaphysical reasons that you outline aren't always the most appropriate way of addressing the issue for all people. Addressing the deeper concerns you mention is also a much bigger task than educating people on how to consume media in a more conscious and reflective way.

[Scholar]

13 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

I don't think we really disagree on there being a deeper cause for why people fall into Conspiratorial Thinking, but I would say that people buy in at different levels for different reasons, and that the deeper metaphysical reasons that you outline aren't always the most appropriate way of addressing the issue for all people. Addressing the deeper concerns you mention is also a much bigger task than educating people on how to consume media in a more conscious and reflective way.

I challenge you to go to a person who is a victim to conspiratorial thinking to educate them on how to consume media in a more conscious and reflective way. In my experience this is impractical. I view reaching the hearts of others and mitigating their fears as far more powerful. It is not really a metaphyiscal problem.

In my experience education usally can serve as a preventative, but not as a cure. To even make a person receptive to the education, their hearts must be open.

 

This is the ractial power of opening peoples hearts. However, this requires an open heart within the one who is aiding their brother and sister to open their hearts:

 

You could say education is a good way to prevent someone from joining the KKK, but this is only true for those people whose hearts have been open enough to receive the education in the first place. You could watch the movie "American History X", as a good example for this. It showcases these dynamics quite well.

If you will not address the fear, the close heartedness, it will manifest in other areas of life. You are playing whackamole instead of truly fixing the problem.

 

Opening our hearts and the hearts of others will be what will lead us into a thriving future. If that will be a pillar in our education, then the world will be able to heal.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Scholar

[DocWatts]

5 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I challenge you to go to a person who is a victim to conspiratorial thinking to educate them on how to consume media in a more conscious and reflective way. In my experience this is impractical. I view reaching the hearts of others and mitigating their fears as far more powerful. It is not really a metaphyiscal problem.

In my experience education usally can serve as a preventative, but not as a cure. To even make a person receptive to the education, their hearts must be open.

 

This is the ractial power of opening peoples hearts. However, this requires an open heart within the one who is aiding their brother and sister to open their hearts:

 

You could say education is a good way to prevent someone from joining the KKK, but this is only true for those people whose hearts have been open enough to receive the education in the first place. You could watch the movie "American History X", as a good example for this. It showcases these dynamics quite well.

If you will not address the fear, the close heartedness, it will manifest in other areas of life. You are playing whackamole instead of truly fixing the problem.

 

Opening our hearts and the hearts of others will be what will lead us into a thriving future. If that will be a pillar in our education, then the world will be able to heal.

I don't really disagree with any of this. Yes we want to address the Root Cause, but at the same time that doesn't mean disregarding treatment for the Symptoms, as you recognize.

I think a multi-faceted approach is probably the right one to take. I do think that education and media literacy can inculcate people to Conspiratorial thinking, and that there's no reason this can't be combined with the approach you mention.

[No Self]

18 hours ago, Scholar said:

But the questions, why are they emotionally gratifying for some but not others?

Based on some anecdotes, people who have had run-ins with authorities are more likely to resonate with the anti-authority cynicism inherent to most conspiracy theories.

I have an aunty who was forced to spend time in a psych ward some decades back. No doubt it was an awful experience. She has bipolar. She's become a prolific spreader of bogus New Age medicine and an opponent of all mainstream approaches with a fervent zeal. Anyone who questions her in any way is automatically a closed-minded ignoramus.

Another friend grew up amongst the civil war of 1980s El Salvador, where corruption and violence reigned. Also had Catholicism literally beaten into her as a child. Seems to have a strong attraction to cults of any type, as they seem to give a feeling of "protection" from the wicked outside world? 

Also, believing in one conspiracy theory gives rise to progressing to believe in more. Combined with the nature of social media algorithms promoting progressively more extreme content and it's easy to see why the audience ends up in the millions.